39 réponses à ce sujet

[Suron]

I love how these forums work.

It's a regular trend around here. One thread pops up about a particular issue and withing 20 minutes you see at least two more on the same thing.

btw, yes the "cliffhanger" ending was lame.

[Orion34]

It's probably hidden somewhere under the fridge.

[Wulfram]

I didn't think there was a cliffhanger. There was a sequel hook, which isn't the same thing. For all of my characters, it felt that the story had finished - my Mage was a tragic hero who first struggled to hold the peace and then when that failed tried unsuccessfully to defend her fellow mages, while my warrior took the Viscount's crown with the blood of innocents on her hands.

The lack of proper epilogues was a disappointment, though.

[Mnemnosyne]

Epilogues would have been pointless since they would probably run into stuff that happens in DLC/expansions/DA3. Many of the epilogues of DA:O were made meaningless by Awakenings, and many of the epilogues of Awakenings were made meaningless by DA2.

[Wulfram]

Koyasha wrote...

Epilogues would have been pointless since they would probably run into stuff that happens in DLC/expansions/DA3. Many of the epilogues of DA:O were made meaningless by Awakenings, and many of the epilogues of Awakenings were made meaningless by DA2.

Just offer some short term epilogues then - the next few months or so.  Hell, just let me have a post-victory chat with my companions so I can get an idea of their plans even if they don't end up amounting to anything.

Modifié par Wulfram, 30 mars 2011 - 11:34 .

[Medhia Nox]

Would you like me to write you an ending?

[SexBomb]

Medhia Nox wrote...

Would you like me to write you an ending?

That would be fantastic, actually.

[Mnemnosyne]

Well, I have to admit a post-victory scene like the coronation in DA:O would have been a nice touch, whatever form it might take. It would have made it better, 'tis true. However, even though that would improve it, I am reasonably satisfied with the ending as it stands.

[TJPags]

Wulfram wrote...

I didn't think there was a cliffhanger. There was a sequel hook, which isn't the same thing. For all of my characters, it felt that the story had finished - my Mage was a tragic hero who first struggled to hold the peace and then when that failed tried unsuccessfully to defend her fellow mages, while my warrior took the Viscount's crown with the blood of innocents on her hands.

The lack of proper epilogues was a disappointment, though.

Well said.

Since we were told in the beginning of the game how it would end, and it actually got to that point, I don't see the cliffhangar.

I also agree on the lack of epilogues.  However, given that epilogues get handwaved regularly by succeeding games (DAA, WH, now DA2) I can live without them.

[Medhia Nox]

*Edit*

What I posted - not relevant.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 30 mars 2011 - 11:43 .

[Foolsfolly]

The ending of the game holds no resolution because the Mage/Templar dust up has no real affect on Hawke. You get a little more than 5 chances to back mages or Templars throughout the game, and regardless of your choices you never really join either side. You just do simple quests for them.

So the ending, where you also kill the person you supported, ends...and this argument likely meant nothing at all to Hawke/Player. And the fact that you have to kill both Meredith and Orsino because they're both insane really doesn't help matters. And since that ending does nothing to the player the tease at the end with Lil is actually likely to sour the player more.

And or completely confuse them since their Warden may be dead and thus...how can the Warden be missing?

So, yeah, from the end of Act 2 to the credits are just one big let down.

[Wulfram]

Foolsfolly wrote...

The ending of the game holds no resolution because the Mage/Templar dust up has no real affect on Hawke. You get a little more than 5 chances to back mages or Templars throughout the game, and regardless of your choices you never really join either side. You just do simple quests for them.

So the ending, where you also kill the person you supported, ends...and this argument likely meant nothing at all to Hawke/Player. And the fact that you have to kill both Meredith and Orsino because they're both insane really doesn't help matters. And since that ending does nothing to the player the tease at the end with Lil is actually likely to sour the player more.

And or completely confuse them since their Warden may be dead and thus...how can the Warden be missing?

So, yeah, from the end of Act 2 to the credits are just one big let down.

To me, that's more a criticism of the game as a whole than specifically the ending - if you weren't engaged in what is supposed to be the central conflict, obviously the end is also going to be unsatisfying.

The Warden Commander is missing - if the Hero of Ferelden died killing the archdemon, he's some Orlesian guy.

[Foolsfolly]

The Warden Commander is missing - if the Hero of Ferelden died killing the archdemon, he's some Orlesian guy.

Yeah, I figured that out eventually but Mr. Not-The-Warden doesn't exactly come to mind when you hear someone say, "The Warden."

[88mphSlayer]

it was kind of a halfway cliffhanger... act 3 was concluded but there wasn't any closure on Kirkwall and Hawke & Companions in general

Mass Effect 1 and 2 had the same cliffhanger ending, but it think the council coming around to seeing things Shepard's way and the reapers still being years or more away gave players closure with the first game and with ME2 players surviving the suicide mission and dealing with the collectors was closure enough

it's really a very subtle difference between ME1+2 and DA2's endings that makes a difference for the average gamer i think

Modifié par 88mphSlayer, 31 mars 2011 - 12:24 .

[Vicious]

It's not an ending, it's the plot ramming into a brick wall.

No questions answered, 5 minutes into the game Varric says 'Chantry has fallen apart and world is on the brink of war.' and 30 hours later that's still all you know.

It was interesting way of telling the story, but ultimately unsatisfying. It'd function better as a book.

[MKDAWUSS]

You must have missed the ending then. It's kinda hard to spot, I know.

[Foolsfolly]

Vicious wrote...

It's not an ending, it's the plot ramming into a brick wall.

No questions answered, 5 minutes into the game Varric says 'Chantry has fallen apart and world is on the brink of war.' and 30 hours later that's still all you know.

It was interesting way of telling the story, but ultimately unsatisfying. It'd function better as a book.

It's not the framing device's fault. This is, I think, the only time I've seen this device actually end the story. Usually when you see this kind of narrative the story catches up to the narrative and continues on past.

Like after Meredith's stonifaction Cassandra starts asking where Hawke and the companions went. Varric has no idea. And then BAM Hawke kicks the door in and says, "I heard you were looking for me." And the story continues on a short way until the ending.

Example, Alpha Protocol had the exact same narrative (although the storytellers had video and photographs to back up what they were saying so it was definately not an Unreliable Narrator like Varric is). And once the story-within-the story wrapped up the game continued on for a mission before you finally hit the ending.

Would that have worked here? Yeah, probably. But that isn't what they did and I'm sure if they just focused the plot a bit more on Meredith/Orsino then we wouldn't have cared. We would have felt satisfied in the ending.

[Danjaru]

It will never come, even in Dragon Age 3 they'll add another cliffhanger ending.

Bioware takes the "leave your audience wanting more" to a twisted degree.

[Mnemnosyne]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Like after Meredith's stonifaction Cassandra starts asking where Hawke and the companions went. Varric has no idea. And then BAM Hawke kicks the door in and says, "I heard you were looking for me." And the story continues on a short way until the ending.

I fully admit this is exactly what I was expecting.  I thought part of the reason for the whole story was going to turn out to be that Varric was stalling, and then Hawke would suddenly burst in and come to his rescue.

[Vigil11]

I just finished it and I'm wondering the same thing.

[88mphSlayer]

Danjaru wrote...

It will never come, even in Dragon Age 3 they'll add another cliffhanger ending.

Bioware takes the "leave your audience wanting more" to a twisted degree.

i dunno all the assassins creed games have ridiculous cliffhangers that would get other devs crucified but the series is universally loved

[TJPags]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Vicious wrote...

It's not an ending, it's the plot ramming into a brick wall.

No questions answered, 5 minutes into the game Varric says 'Chantry has fallen apart and world is on the brink of war.' and 30 hours later that's still all you know.

It was interesting way of telling the story, but ultimately unsatisfying. It'd function better as a book.

It's not the framing device's fault. This is, I think, the only time I've seen this device actually end the story. Usually when you see this kind of narrative the story catches up to the narrative and continues on past.

Like after Meredith's stonifaction Cassandra starts asking where Hawke and the companions went. Varric has no idea. And then BAM Hawke kicks the door in and says, "I heard you were looking for me." And the story continues on a short way until the ending.

Example, Alpha Protocol had the exact same narrative (although the storytellers had video and photographs to back up what they were saying so it was definately not an Unreliable Narrator like Varric is). And once the story-within-the story wrapped up the game continued on for a mission before you finally hit the ending.

Would that have worked here? Yeah, probably. But that isn't what they did and I'm sure if they just focused the plot a bit more on Meredith/Orsino then we wouldn't have cared. We would have felt satisfied in the ending.

You have a good point, but let me point out 2 framed narratives stories, one that shows your point, one that doesn't.

In The Usual Suspects, Verbal is telling Kujan the story, which we see in the movie.  At the end, when he finishes the story, he leaves the office . . .and that's where we get our twist, which explains what really happened and wraps things up (sorry if I spoiled that for anyone . . .best I can do here is not be specific).  I think this is the kind of thing you're talking about.

Contrast with The Princess Bride.  Here, Grandpa tells the story to his sick grandson (can't remember names, sorry).  But at the end, when the story finishes, there's no "catch up".  The movie ends when the Grandfather finishes reading the book. 

So I don't think a framed narrative needs to play "catch up" at the end.  It can, certainly.  But it doesn't have to.

To me, DA2 told the story it intended to - what really happened in Kirkwall that led to the mage-templar war?

While we don't know what happens to Hawke, or Meredith, or the Lyrium Idol, or anyone or anything else, none of them were the point of the story.  The point - the story, I guess - was the events.  And those are over.

Now, I personally don't feel it's a satisfying ending, but I do think it ends where it meant to, and tells us what it intended.

[Foolsfolly]

In The Usual Suspects, Verbal is telling Kujan the story, which we see in the movie. At the end, when he finishes the story, he leaves the office . . .and that's where we get our twist, which explains what really happened and wraps things up (sorry if I spoiled that for anyone . . .best I can do here is not be specific). I think this is the kind of thing you're talking about.

There's no way you spoiled it, all you told them was 'what looks like the answer isn't the answer' which is so vague they'll still enjoy the movie.

Now, to your point, like I said in my post. If they focused the Meredith/Orsino story we wouldn't care that the story never caught up. We'd have had a satisfying conclusion without the catch up.

See I'm the opposite because something doesn't quiet fit with the ending I have to keep thinking about it. It's like a cavity in an otherwise perfect tooth, you can't keep your tongue off it. BioWare does good stories and this time around it felt hollow and the especially the ending came up...empty.

And my mind can't leave it alone until I've figured out why.

[ToJKa1]

The story was about how the Champion became the champion. The epilogue is released later as Dragon Age 3. ...Was my impression.