105 réponses à ce sujet

[James2912]

Saphra Deden wrote...

James2912 wrote...

One new question who decides what is moral? God? Man? 

The people who can back up their morality with force.

Haha very true! Whoever is in power at the time!

Thats what gets me about the mass effect series Bioware had an excellent oppurtunity to creat REAL ALIENS! With exotic moral codes! Not humans dressed as aliens. 

[CulturalGeekGirl]

One fact that I find interesting: it was only through the Protheans self-sacrifice, deciding to prioritize hope for future civilizations over their own survival, that we have any chance at all.

[ADelusiveMan]

Markinator_123 wrote...

How far are you (your Shepard) willing to go to save the galaxy? In the Arrival we already made a costly sacrifice but are you willing to have your Shepard lose his/her humanity to save humanity and the galaxy from the Reapers? It would be interesting to see just how far we would be able to go in ME3.

Well, it is my honest opinion that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. As such, that would make it my Shepard's view as well. Somethings have to be done for the greater good. 

To be honest, my Commander Shepard is the Mass Effect equivalent of Jack Bauer (from 24 ). Do what's necessary, but don't be downright renegade. More like 'paragade.' I don't see the point in being mean to the people that are on your side, but at the same time, if there is a galaxy at stake and there is innocent life at risk - the ends most certainly do justify the means.

Modifié par ADelusiveMan, 31 mars 2011 - 03:25 .

[Dean_the_Young]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

One fact that I find interesting: it was only through the Protheans self-sacrifice, deciding to prioritize hope for future civilizations over their own survival, that we have any chance at all.

Did the Protheans even have an opportunity to prioritize their own?

As I recal Ilos, the Protheans woke up, realized they didn't have a breeding population, and dedicated the rest of their lives to the Conduit project.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

One fact that I find interesting: it was only through the Protheans self-sacrifice, deciding to prioritize hope for future civilizations over their own survival, that we have any chance at all.

Did the Protheans even have an opportunity to prioritize their own?

As I recal Ilos, the Protheans woke up, realized they didn't have a breeding population, and dedicated the rest of their lives to the Conduit project.

I got the implication that the installation on Ilos was designed to prioritize completing the conduit over anything else. I got the idea that "hey, maybe we can also repopulate, if everything goes well" was wishful thinking. For instance, Ilos seems survivable, farmable even. We don't know how the Reapers find people, but the Protheans could have just woken everyone up when they started to run out of power and tried to set up a mini-civilizaiton on Ilos. The reapers may or may not have found them, then. Instead, the computer was directed to prioritize project success over everything else - better to fall below breeding population numbers than risk Reaper discovery before the conduit was done.

That's what I got from it, anyway.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 31 mars 2011 - 03:41 .

[James2912]

Yeah I have to agree with culturalgeekgirl who has a very interesting blog by the way. Back on topic Ilos seemed like an okay place to live very green, probably plenty of jungle wildlife. So the Protheans must have chosen not to continue their species and instead focus on the project.

Modifié par James2912, 31 mars 2011 - 03:44 .

[James2912]

Saphra Deden wrote...

thurmanator692 wrote...

Remember what i said about the Paragin/Renegade system being based on the status quo? there is no staus quo when all sapient life in the galaxy is obliterated. It would be pointless not to try and make it better for the next folks who come along

It might be satisfying to screw over your enemy out of spite though.

Its what I would do lol. For example if I were President and the USSR wiped out the US with nukes. I would then wipe out them with nukes out of spite even though really your just screwing hummanity. 

[CulturalGeekGirl]

VIs are programmed by someone. I am pretty sure he explicitly states he was instructed to do so by those who lead the project.

[darkiddd]

A lion is guided by instinct, a human being is guided by instinct but also by a rational thought that can help to avoid impulses like hatred or envy or at least dominate them, a lion can't distinguish good or bad, it doesn't have morals and thus it can't do neither good nor bad, its just an animal guided by instinct, a human being can distiguish good and bad, its guided by instinct but also by morals and this is the reason why it can do good or bad, it knows the difference between them.

And about who decides what is moral you really think it matters? if you can know the difference between good and evil do you really think an entity with all the knowledge of the universe wouldn't, I think you wanted to ask me if believing in good and evil makes you believe in god, maybe but sincerely you don't have to believe in god to believe in concepts such as real good or evil. My conception of god has changed a lot since I was a kid as well as my spiritual beliefs but there are things that couldn't change like my concepts about good or bad.
It doesn't matter who decides what is good or evil, the difference is there, you don't know who put it there, god, man, so what? we both know the difference, we can choose to ignore it but it is there.

[SPARTAN-860]

LK Tien wrote...

thurmanator692 wrote...

Paragon Badass is a bit of an oxymoron, isn't it?
What would a paragon badass do?

Kill 300,000 innocent civilians to delay the inevitable.

A necessary sacrifice so that organics have a bit more time to prepare for the invasion. 300,000 is nothing compared to the whole bataraian population anyway.

[James2912]

Saphra Deden wrote...

James2912 wrote...

So the Protheans must have chosen not to continue their species and instead focus on the project.

No, they made no such choice. Vigil had to keep them in lockdown because any activity on the surface might have alerted the Reapers. If the Reapers found them they'd go extinct and that would be the end of it. Once he could safely release the Protheans from stasis there weren't enough of them. If he'd sacrificed none there would be none left once the Reapers were gone.

He had to prioritize who to save and so naturally he saved the more educated and capable of members of the staff.

okay i know your right in that, that was what they said in the game. BUT your telling me the Reapers would not have investigated the research complex that was built on Ilos or picked up the unnatural energy signature? But they would have seen some crops. also they could have grown food withing the complex, being a  highly advanced race. 

(I mean you as Bioware) Obviously you don't have to explain their reasoning if you don't want to.

[Kaiser Shepard]

James2912 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

thurmanator692 wrote...

Remember what i said about the Paragin/Renegade system being based on the status quo? there is no staus quo when all sapient life in the galaxy is obliterated. It would be pointless not to try and make it better for the next folks who come along

It might be satisfying to screw over your enemy out of spite though.

Its what I would do lol. For example if I were President and the USSR wiped out the US with nukes. I would then wipe out them with nukes out of spite even though really your just screwing hummanity. 

Well, that was the main concern during the Cold War. I believe it's called 'second strike capability'.

But I agree with Sapha's motion of screwing the Reapers over if, even if it's far from clear who will win the upcoming war. Personally, destroying both the Citadel and quite a few Relays seems like the thing to do. While we're at it, we might as well colony drop every planet capable of ever supporting life.

[Zan51]

Maybe you can tell me why a community in cryo lockdown, watched by a VI that is on minimum power needs to grow crops?? They hid in cryo! It was a secret base deep underground. Why would the Reapers even be looking for it? The city above ground could have been destroyed by the Reapers, or their agents, I forget now, but I do remember the scientists were hiding in cryo in their secret underground base. Secret iplies it could not be found or traced!

And the OP was right, Virgil was programmed to cut power to the less productive members of the community in cryo as they waited out the Reaper invasion. The VI did not make that decision, it was programmed into him. Only the less "productive" members didn't know this, of course.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

I still think the Protheans were awesome and self sacrificing. Sure they told their VI to shut them down... and he did. He was a VI, not an AI - I didn't get the impression he was making decisions himself, he had been given a list of priorities and was devising the best course of action to fulfil those priorities, but it was the VI's creators, those Prothean scientists, who decided that the project came before the race's survival.

You don't have to believe that if you don't want to... but if the Protheans didn't make that decision consciously, then they were unrealistically dumb.

As an organic, if I could get people to FREAKING BELIEVE ME about the reapers, one of the things I'd do is build and send out some Ark ships to find planets that are a few years away from Mass Relays, and build sleeper colonies there. Wipe all ship vectors from my database as soon as they're off, send 'em in different directions, have them not communicate in case of indoctrination. Hell, maybe even build a generation ship or two. That's what we used to think we'd have to do if we wanted to colonize stars, before we discovered FTL travel - Ark up some ark ships.

The Reapers can't (and obviously, based in Ilos, don't) check every single system. They check ones that have Mass Relays, and all the ones that are a reasonable distance away from Mass Relays. So get some volunteers, Make some Ark ships, and tell them not to come back for a few thousand years. It's do-able. And if we could technically do it, why couldn't the Protheans? They seem to have been significantly more technologically advanced than we were.

Now, we can't be sure the Protheans didn't attempt this, and fail. But the resources used to found Ilos could have been used for another colony attempt, or an arc ship, or something that would have given them a chance at survival. They decided to spend those resources on the conduit project instead, and that says something... to me anyway.

[GuardianAngel470]

Read my fan fiction and find out.

*semi-spoilers* quite far.