199 réponses à ce sujet

[xzxzxz701]

Saphra Deden wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

 Thinking about what someone other than yourself wants is selfish, but doing things so you can get something out if it is selfless?  What the hell, man?

My way is self-less because I'm thinking about the best interests of my people and not with what makes me personally feel less guilty. That's how I look at all my decisions. Shepard has a job to do and a responsibility to the people who put their trust in him.

You should be more concerned with what is best for your own kin than what is best for a bunch of murderous machines run amok.

Please explain to me when the Geth have ever run amok murdering people, (other than with the Quarians, which was self defense, and the Heretic Geth who were following the Reapers)? Also, going by your logic the Geth should fully destroy the Quarians and other organic races since they are more likely to run around killing people than any Geth is.

[AdmiralCheez]

Saphra Deden wrote...

My way is self-less because I'm thinking about the best interests of my people and not with what makes me personally feel less guilty. That's how I look at all my decisions. Shepard has a job to do and a responsibility to the people who put their trust in him.

Guilt has nothing to do with it.  Earth will most likely be unaffected by this matter, since the heretic geth will no longer be a threat either way while the orthodox geth have no interest in attacking humans unless we pick a fight with them.

You should be more concerned with what is best for your own kin than what is best for a bunch of murderous machines run amok.

Again, humanity needn't worry because the geth have no interest in attacking us.  Meanwhile, the "murderous machines run amok" are sentient beings and an independent nation.  One that is hyper-protective of its borders, yes, but that's not an issue if you leave it the hell alone.

[xzxzxz701]

Saphra Deden wrote...

xzxzxz701 wrote...

Please explain to me when the Geth have ever run amok murdering people,

Did you ever play Mass Effect 1 or read about the Morning War?

Did you even bother to read the rest of my post?

Modifié par xzxzxz701, 31 mars 2011 - 12:36 .

[mr_luga]

What pains me most is that with the silly paragon/renegade system, Bioware is basicly going to say "If you choose paragon, you'll get the peaceful/right/gain choice" it seems renegade is the more "Get more enemies, so you can fight" choice.

It makes it hard to choose, becouse I'd like to think both options are viable. But it seems re-write is the more overall accepted thing.. Grah. Hard.. Well I'll decide now I guess.

[Golden Owl]

Saphra Deden wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...


What's more selfish, considering the wishes of the people you have complete control over or wondering how they can be an asset to you?

Your appeal to conscience betrays your true motives here. It's not about the geth or anyone else, it's about [i]you/i].

I was under the illusion that this discussion is supposed to be about whether to rewrite or destroy the Geth, not personal attacks on people, Saphra.

[Golden Owl]

mr_luga wrote...

What pains me most is that with the silly paragon/renegade system, Bioware is basicly going to say "If you choose paragon, you'll get the peaceful/right/gain choice" it seems renegade is the more "Get more enemies, so you can fight" choice.

It makes it hard to choose, becouse I'd like to think both options are viable. But it seems re-write is the more overall accepted thing.. Grah. Hard.. Well I'll decide now I guess.

If your prepared to give the game another run through, why not try both and then activate all of Legion's follow up discussions through to the end, he has some interesting perspectives and gives you quite a bit more information about what the Geth want, then base your final ME3 decision on that.

Modifié par Golden Owl, 31 mars 2011 - 12:43 .

[AdmiralCheez]

Saphra Deden wrote...

xzxzxz701 wrote...

Please explain to me when the Geth have ever run amok murdering people,

Did you ever play Mass Effect 1 or read about the Morning War?

WAIT.  HOLD EVERYTHING.  QUOTEMINING ALERT.

xzxzxz701 wrote...

(other than with the Quarians, which was self defense, and the Heretic
Geth who were following the Reapers)?

God, and his post is like right the f*ck above you.  Talk about bad taste.

You know this, how? Why not think more about what benefits Earth? Eliminate an enemy and weaken a rival. None of the geth are particularly friendly.

Enemy is eliminated either way.  The geth are no more a rival than Switzerland.

No, all the evidence so far just tells us they are destructive computer programs inhabiting machines. Dangerous ones. You made them stronger.

Uh, no.  I actually blow them up 50% of the time.  Meanwhile, if you're doing this mission, you obviously have Legion in your party.  You've talked to the guy, right?  I mean, jeez, he saves your life on the dead Reaper, buddies around with you with minimal complaint, informs you (and the quarians if you take him on Tali's LM) that peace is possible, and donated credits to help Eden Prime recover from Sovereign's attack.

Mindless killing machine, yup yup.

[Mr0TYuH]

Destroying the heretics is the safe option, since it maintains the status quo. You'll still have 5% of the geth, the heretics, as an enemy serving the Reapers, and you'll still have the mainstream geth opposing them.

Rewriting the heretics is the risky option. You'll ensure that the geth are unified and share the same logic, but you can't know the consequences of that. It is stated by Legion that there is no way to know how the reintergration of the experiences of the heretics will have on the geth. While the geth will logically come to the conclusion to not serve the Reapers, the geth are not entirely logical, as can be seen of Legion is pressed about the choice of Shepard's armor to repair the hole.

For example, if the heretics have learned to hate organic life, they may transfer those emotions to the mainstream geth. While they may logically reject the Old Machines, their emotional rage may lead them to attack organics and aid the Reapers.

So, destruction is the safe option to be chosen by those who wish to minimize potential risks and have a greater certainty of the reprocussions. Rewriting the geth is the more hopeful choice, which could either result in a unified geth fighting with humanity or a unified geth fighting against organics.

This is reflected with the Paragon and Renegade points. The Paragon is the optimist, and the Renegade is the pragmatist. Of course, this get reversed when it comes to the Collector Base IMO.

[xzxzxz701]

Saphra Deden wrote...

xzxzxz701 wrote...

Did you even bother to read the rest of my post?

No, because the sentence I quoted invalidates anything else you might say.

So that is how you prove your logic? Really? Well, that is disappointing. I was hoping for more of an actual debate, and not you just pretty much saying my logic is wrong and your your opinion is fact.

Modifié par xzxzxz701, 31 mars 2011 - 01:21 .

[Almostfaceman]

Saphra Deden wrote...

xzxzxz701 wrote...

Did you even bother to read the rest of my post?

No, because the sentence I quoted invalidates anything else you might say.

thurmanator692 wrote...

And what about Legion? he was plenty friendly

He is not actively hostile, but he is not actually friendly either. The most the geth ever offer us is cooperation in destroying the Heretics and a sniper rifle. They're still xenophobic and reclusive. A dangerous combination, especially when we know what they are capable of.

Soooo, Legion covering your ass in multiple fire-fights isn't actively friendly?  What are you waiting for, friendship rings? 

[mr_luga]

Mr0TYuH wrote...

Destroying the heretics is the safe option, since it maintains the status quo. You'll still have 5% of the geth, the heretics, as an enemy serving the Reapers, and you'll still have the mainstream geth opposing them.

Rewriting the heretics is the risky option. You'll ensure that the geth are unified and share the same logic, but you can't know the consequences of that. It is stated by Legion that there is no way to know how the reintergration of the experiences of the heretics will have on the geth. While the geth will logically come to the conclusion to not serve the Reapers, the geth are not entirely logical, as can be seen of Legion is pressed about the choice of Shepard's armor to repair the hole.

For example, if the heretics have learned to hate organic life, they may transfer those emotions to the mainstream geth. While they may logically reject the Old Machines, their emotional rage may lead them to attack organics and aid the Reapers.

So, destruction is the safe option to be chosen by those who wish to minimize potential risks and have a greater certainty of the reprocussions. Rewriting the geth is the more hopeful choice, which could either result in a unified geth fighting with humanity or a unified geth fighting against organics.

This is reflected with the Paragon and Renegade points. The Paragon is the optimist, and the Renegade is the pragmatist. Of course, this get reversed when it comes to the Collector Base IMO.

Wow thank you  You acually responded to my thread instead of attcking people!  ^^

It's an impossible choice -.- I made the re-write just now, though I made save in the heretic station, so I can always go back to that point, and re-play again.  

I'm still extremly torn, I got no idea if I should just re.load right now and destroy it -.-

It seems to be the renegade options you always get screwed over with though. I really dislike bioware becouse of this with this system. I went with re-write PURELY becouse it was paragon, if I didnt get points no matter what choice I made (Like dragon age) I would've destroyed them.

[xzxzxz701]

That's how a debate works, sweety.
If I thought your opinion was equally valid then I'd be on the fence. If
we both agree with each other we can't debate. In a debate you are
supposed to defend your position and discredit your opposition. I can't
do that if I treat your position like it is just as valid as mine.

Well, its kind of hard to defend my position when you won't even read the rest of my post.

Modifié par xzxzxz701, 31 mars 2011 - 01:29 .

[Lukertin]

Saphra Deden wrote...
He is not actively hostile, but he is not actually friendly either. The most the geth ever offer us is cooperation in destroying the Heretics and a sniper rifle. They're still xenophobic and reclusive. A dangerous combination, especially when we know what they are capable of.

He starts off with a "the enemy of my enemy is an ally".  When you go to the heretic geth station he makes a short quip about how the geth 'individualize' after being away from the geth collective. Legion would similarly 'individualize' due to his isolation from the Geth and THEN what will happen when he returns?

[CulturalGeekGirl]

If I recall correctly, I actually based my decision on the fact that Legion's programs, while unable to establish a consensus, were leaning very slightly toward the rewrite.

[xzxzxz701]

I would read the rest of your post if the first sentence in it didn't invalidate the rest. I'd rather tackle one thing at a time. If you don't feel that any of the examples of geth aggression and violence count then we can't have much of a discussion.

The Morning War was casued by the Quarians trying to shut the Geth down, it was self defense.

The Heretic Geth were a different faction than the regular Geth that worked for the Reapers, just like how you can't blame all humans for what Hitler did, you can't blame all Geth for what the Heretics did.

Modifié par xzxzxz701, 31 mars 2011 - 01:47 .