199 réponses à ce sujet

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Entertaining the possibility isn't the same thing as making the assumption. And Legion seemed really surprised and hurt that the renegades could really decide to create the virus. So the idea that a geth could be wrong about the behavior of another geth seems to exist.

I don't believe it is likely, but I believe it is not impossible, merely very, very improbable.

[Lukertin]

Saphra Deden wrote...

xzxzxz701 wrote...
 Thats why he joined up with Shep, t was based mostly on cold hard calculations.

Exactly.

do cold hard calculations also explain why he plays video games, donated money to the eden prime relief fund, and dances?

Would Legion participate in a suicide mission to stop the Collectors when he hasn't been able to communicate back to the Geth after boarding the derelict Reaper? That basically ensures everything Legion has learned in that time (info on the Quarians, info on the Collectors, info on the Heretics, info on the Reapers, info on the Council) inbetween would be lost forever to its people--for an entity that supposedly values self-preservation, that choice is actually very illogical.

[Almostfaceman]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...


It's not JUST self-preservation.  There is the desire to understand.

Understanding motivated by self-preservation. If the geth better understand the universe they are trapped in they can better survive within it.

Understanding promted by a connection they feel with Shepard.

"Why are you wearing MY armor?"

"No data available."

Obviously, there's something more than just cold logic and self-preservation at play.  On this we can agree to disagree.

[Almostfaceman]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Lukertin wrote...

do cold hard calculations also explain why he plays video games, donated money to the eden prime relief fund, and dances?

Yes, minus the dancing, which is just a joke by the devs. For me to believe the dancing is actually part of the canon it needs to be referenced at some point in the story.

The other things are all part of Legion trying to understand organic behavior.

Ah, ignoring facts that don't fall easily into your version of the debate - bad form.  All of the data on the squad mates is canon - just like Miranda being sterile or Jack trying to write poetry.  If it's a meaningless joke they wouldn't have put it into the game.

[Almostfaceman]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Obviously, there's something more than just cold logic and self-preservation at play.  On this we can agree to disagree.

No, there isn't. You want to interpret it that way, bit it could be as simple as Legion not understanding Shepard's question or declining to answer. Miranda's interpretation, that it is a convenient field repair, is a sufficient explanation.

I've already considered the Miranda point and I think she's missing something - just like you are.

[Lukertin]

Saphra Deden wrote...
The other things are all part of Legion trying to understand organic behavior.

Participating in a suicide mission when he could find a way to leave and report back to the Geth with tons of intelligence on every single potential threat to the Geth is just a way for legion to try to understand organic behavior, never mind the possibility that if he dies, the Geth will not be able to benefit from his newfound understanding of organic behavi

[Almostfaceman]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Why do you feel that way?

I've already explained why I feel that way.  You don't agree.  That's fine, not the end of the world.  Again, we can just agree to disagree.

[Zulu_DFA]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Obviously, there's something more than just cold logic and self-preservation at play.  On this we can agree to disagree.

No, there isn't. You want to interpret it that way, bit it could be as simple as Legion not understanding Shepard's question or declining to answer. Miranda's interpretation, that it is a convenient field repair, is a sufficient explanation.

To me, it's obvious too, that BioWare is trying to sell us the idea that there is more than pure logic. All those quetions about having a soul, you know, are on the farthest end of thought from logic. And Miranda's guess is just her another erroneous guess.

However, all these topics are only half-developed in ME2. There really should have been an option to press Legion even further about the armor piece, as well as have a discussion of the question of having a soul between Legion and Shepard.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 31 mars 2011 - 02:38 .

[mr_luga]

Okay you guys, if you're going to discuss and toss subtle insults at eachother, could you take it out of my thread? ^^; I really value your input but it seems to have kind of.. Strayed away from that now

[Praetor Knight]

I was thinking about this, as I did this mission yesterday.

Another way to frame this issue is with how can the Geth ultimately be made a non-issue for organic life?

If Legion is to be believed regarding the conversation with Shepard about the Geth building the mega-structure, that very well could be a Dyson Sphere or something similar, then rewriting the Geth might actually be a better option in the long run.

I argue this because the greatest threat that the Geth provide are using their Mobile Platforms (Troopers, Snipers, Juggernauts, Hunters, Destroyers and Primes) and using their autonomous servants (various drones, Geth Armatures, Colossus, maybe Hoppers, and maybe their Dropships).

So, in theory, without the Heretic Geth, because of rewrite, there should be no more Geth controlled mobile platforms to get in the way of Shepard. The only concern would then be knowing how the other Geth units actually work.

Geth are only software after all right?

[AdmiralCheez]

Saphra Deden wrote...

The Heretics as a whole changed after being separated from the main geth for a long time, yes. However with regards to himself, to individual platforms, all Legion says is that isolation diminishes them. The heretics were not diminished. They were already quite different from the main geth. If they weren't they never would have had the schism in the first place.

By "diminished" he means overall less processing power.  Fewer programs, less perspectives to consider.

[ADelusiveMan]

I rewrote them. The Geth could come in handy when the Reapers start reaping.

Modifié par ADelusiveMan, 31 mars 2011 - 02:42 .