109 réponses à ce sujet

[SuicidalBaby]

was that quick enough for you?

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Tigers Tail

Damage: 39 fire damage (53 dps)
Stats: +109 attack
+6% critical chance
+15% critical damage

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 01 avril 2011 - 05:29 .

[SuicidalBaby]

I did pick up a pair of boots in hightown with only 16 dex/cun req and +4% crit in act 1, there was also a chest piece that had +5% crit and +12% crit damage for only 17 req dex/cun that dropped off the Andraste's Ashes rogue in Lowtown. Meaning after points spent its+16% crit and 19% crit damage just in act 1. add on upgraded heroic aura and youre at 26% crit before lvl 10

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 01 avril 2011 - 03:52 .

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

Now that's interesting. Just makes me want to suck all points from Willpower somehow and get them into my Dex. Dunno what would I wear then, though. Just my panties and a staff maybe.

[SuicidalBaby]

Rock Armor baby!

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

Rock Armor _baby_!

..that's just suicidal!

Modifié par DamnThoseDisplayNames, 01 avril 2011 - 04:07 .

[SpezXVII]

Just wish I didn't have to put 32 points into Willpower for my armor. My Bloodmage would love to have some points in Dexterity but no, instead I have to already spread myself thin.

[SuicidalBaby]

26 will
Act 2
Black Emporium
Hands of Fate
Rune of Valiance = +6 stats

Gloves of your want + rune slot = win

make sure you replace the armor slot with an RoV with an armor of the same slot that has an RoV or you will alter your stats permanently

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 01 avril 2011 - 07:49 .

[Musou1776]

Seems like Gloxgasm showed with math at the start of the thread that every point that comes out of magic and is put in dex makes you do LESS damage over the long term. Since then nobody has shown evidence to the contrary showing direct comparisons of average damage.

Given that each point of magic seems to be .5 base staff damage and even higher amounts of base damage for spells plus boosts attack while OTOH each point of dex only increases crit chance by 1% the math seems to prove that this is a dead end. Had to dig up my old calculator from precald

[Musou1776]

Meant to say from precalc. Posting from my iPhone and doesnt seem to let me edit my posts. Anyways maxing magic and focusing entirely on boosting  damage seems to win out over having a much lower base damage and higher chances to do relatively low crit damage (compared to a rogue). Can any of the dex advocates provide evidence to the contrary?

Modifié par Musou1776, 02 avril 2011 - 06:47 .

[Musou1776]

Also seems gearwise you would be better off boosting elemental damage and not trying to bump crit chance.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Musou1776 wrote...

Meant to say from precalc. Posting from my iPhone and doesnt seem to let me edit my posts. Anyways maxing magic and focusing entirely on boosting  damage seems to win out over having a much lower base damage and higher chances to do relatively low crit damage (compared to a rogue). Can any of the dex advocates provide evidence to the contrary?

The calculations did not take into effect the effect of raising dex/cunning enough to get gear that also raises crit chance/damage. On my first mage plalythrough I wound up with 89 in Magic after gear. If I had put everything in dex and cunning after taking Magic to 42 that would have allowed the use of some gear that boosts crit chance/damage in addition to the jewelry/belt slot items that do so.

Maxing magic still gives you pitiful damage. On my first NM playthrough I did that. I put 32 in willpower and the rest in Magic. I'm on my second playthrough, this time as a blood mage.

I'm tempted to put that on hold and try to get a good critical chance. I think threre is enough critical chance gear that such a buld might out perform a Magic pump builid. I'd take only 2 points into Force Mage to get Unshakable and then probably take most of the primal and elemental trees. The second specialization would be only for the bonus.

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 02 avril 2011 - 08:24 .

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Musou1776 wrote...

Also seems gearwise you would be better off boosting elemental damage and not trying to bump crit chance.

The most common mage armor seems to focus on fire damage, which is harder to use on Nightmare. Of course there is the armor in the Emporium that gives +24% to all elements but you are unlikely to be able to afford that and the Final Thought staff. I is hard to account for all the variables. Experimentation is probably going to establish the "best" route to take.

[Musou1776]

Speculation is fine, but show some math if you have it. All the hypotheticals I am running show it's a lose lose to drop magic as far as damage output is concerned. I also suspect that the crit chance and crit damage increasing gear on a Mage loses out to awesome elemental damage increasing gear like robes of unblemished cleanliness, ring of ferryman, etc., which apply to every spell and staff hit you do.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Musou1776 wrote...

Speculation is fine, but show some math if you have it. All the hypotheticals I am running show it's a lose lose to drop magic as far as damage output is concerned. I also suspect that the crit chance and crit damage increasing gear on a Mage loses out to awesome elemental damage increasing gear like robes of unblemished cleanliness, ring of ferryman, etc., which apply to every spell and staff hit you do.

I'm not an "advocate" of the idea except in so far as I'm willing to give it a try becase mage damage with max Magic and the best gear still sucks. My first mage had Final Thought and the Ring of the Ferryman by the way.

Oh, you are not going to be able to afford Final Thought AND the Robe of Uncleanness. Final Thought will give you more damage than the robe by the way. No, Ring of the Ferryman does not apply to all spells and staff hits as it does not increase physical damage (Final Thought) and only Fire/electrical damage as far as other damage goes.

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 02 avril 2011 - 08:57 .

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

Wait, but how's actual critical bonus calculated? Is it bonus from Cunning? O_o

[Musou1776]

Final thought doesn't seem worth the price compared to free 41/42 fire drops like voracity and torch that you can get 112-128% or more elemental damage increase on with talents and gear. Robe of unblemished cleanliness gives 24% on fire cold and electric, far more damage than you sacrifice not using final thought with an example spell of chain lightning.

Please provide some math with what you say or it means basically nothing

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Musou1776 wrote...

Final thought doesn't seem worth the price compared to free 41/42 fire drops like voracity and torch that you can get 112-128% or more elemental damage increase on with talents and gear. Robe of unblemished cleanliness gives 24% on fire cold and electric, far more damage than you sacrifice not using final thought with an example spell of chain lightning.

Please provide some math with what you say or it means basically nothing

The math is already on the forums but since you are a know it all you find it.

[Musou1776]

What a cop out. You say you aren't advocating but you sure got bent out of shape when asked to provide any numbers to back up that it's a good idea.

Not claiming to know it all, just did a little work to find that the math Gloxgasm posted was pretty much on the money. Every point out of magic into dex or cun or both is less average damage.

[SpezXVII]

Musou1776 wrote...

What a cop out. You say you aren't advocating but you sure got bent out of shape when asked to provide any numbers to back up that it's a good idea.

Not claiming to know it all, just did a little work to find that the math Gloxgasm posted was pretty much on the money. Every point out of magic into dex or cun or both is less average damage.

While this is true, Dex will get you BIG NUMBERS!!!1!!111

[x-president]

SpezXVII wrote...

While this is true, Dex will get you BIG NUMBERS!!!1!!111

lol

[x-president]

Does having a high crit chance stack with Death Hex or does it matter once you reach 100%?


I would imagine if you wanna do a dex/cun build the entropy spells would be the perfect compliment.  Also Death Hex gives 100% crit chance for tougher targets.

[Yxunomei]

LOL what level are you guys ? how come you have so many skills ! my mage is only lvl 16 on act 2

2 maxed out skill tree + the healing tree wtf !

[Gloxgasm]

Grumpy just likes to whine about everything.

[Bones40]

Musou1776 wrote...

Seems like Gloxgasm showed with math at the start of the thread that every point that comes out of magic and is put in dex makes you do LESS damage over the long term. Since then nobody has shown evidence to the contrary showing direct comparisons of average damage.

Given that each point of magic seems to be .5 base staff damage and even higher amounts of base damage for spells plus boosts attack while OTOH each point of dex only increases crit chance by 1% the math seems to prove that this is a dead end. Had to dig up my old calculator from precald

I'm not on either side of the argument but I'm fairly certain that Gloxgasm's numbers were simply put into a straight spread sheet completely neglecting the diminishing returns effect.  I'm not expert on it, but that point you invest to take magic to 79 from 78 nets you virtually nothing.  Anything over 50 is that way, I hear.  So why not put those points into something that does actually increase dps?  

Why discourage people from experimenting to find new viable builds and playstyles?  I'm very interested to see if this works because more options is always better than less.

Modifié par Bones40, 02 avril 2011 - 07:02 .