118 réponses à ce sujet

[Torax]

Hellosanta wrote...
 LOL I felt really wrong to side with Templars until the Act II (I haven't gotten the achievement for siding with templars at least 5 times yet). In order to make people to side with Templars, dev needed to make piles of corrupted mages for sure. 

It was pointless really. All they should have done was pointed out Orsino's corruption. If they introduced both of them earlier in the game to develop and learn about them we'd have more. He acts all saint like but he was working with some pretty evil people. Meredith did have a right to be paranoid. He is no victim but many others in the circle surely are.

Modifié par Torax, 31 mars 2011 - 02:43 .

[Vhalkyrie]

HolyJellyfish wrote...
This isn't true. Merrill makes a very important comment that magic among the Dalish is dying, that's why keepers are so damn important. They are one of the rare elves who actually have magic.

Even Merrill isn't originally from her clan. She was given to them at a young girl to be trained as a first, since she was one of the very few elves who had magic.

This is why I had a hard time sympathizing with Merrill on her darn quest for that dang mirror.  How could she place the mirror above her clan when they desperately needed her?  She said she was only doing it for the clan, but she abdicated her responsibility as First.  Instead, the clan lost both the Keeper and the First.  Even if you didn't slaughter the Dalish, they are pretty much left for dead.

bobobo878 wrote...
Merrill:
Her recruitment sequence really freaked me out. When the Keeper told
me that Merrill would be leaving with me, I desperately scanned the
dialogue wheel for an option to ask why, but there was none to be found.
As I explored the camp, I learned that Merrill was being exiled from
the clan. If she's coming with me, don't I deserve to know why? If
she's being banished for being a serial killer or a cannibal, it would
be helpful for me to know. Later I discovered that she was just a blood
mage and a demon apologist. Great, what could possibly go wrong?

I didn't like that I was forced to carry her in tow.  My Warden and Hawke were staunch anti blood mage, and executed every blood mage encountered.  Except Merrill.  Because she had plot armor.  I'm trying to rationalize it's because I made a promise to Marethari that I would take her away, but basically a blood mage hanging around, even a cheerful one, made my Hawke's teeth gnash.

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 31 mars 2011 - 02:54 .

[Matterialize]

I should really introduce you to my good friend, murder knife.

[Hellosanta]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...
This isn't true. Merrill makes a very important comment that magic among the Dalish is dying, that's why keepers are so damn important. They are one of the rare elves who actually have magic.

Even Merrill isn't originally from her clan. She was given to them at a young girl to be trained as a first, since she was one of the very few elves who had magic.

This is why I had a hard time sympathizing with Merrill on her darn quest for that dang mirror.  How could she place the mirror above her clan when they desperately needed her?  She said she was only doing it for the clan, but she abdicated her responsibility as First.  Instead, the clan lost both the Keeper and the First.  Even if you didn't slaughter the Dalish, they are pretty much left for dead.

I didn't like that I was forced to carry her in tow.  My Warden and Hawke were staunch anti blood mage, and executed every blood mage encountered.  Except Merrill.  Because she had plot armor.  I'm trying to rationalize it's because I made a promise to Marethari that I would take her away, but basically a blood mage hanging around, even a cheerful one, made my Hawke's teeth gnash.

If you read the short story about Merrill, it is clear that the demon actually has made her to be obsessed about the mirror (pretty much how Anders is drived by Justice).

Modifié par Hellosanta, 31 mars 2011 - 02:54 .

[Vhalkyrie]

Hellosanta wrote...
 If you read the short story about Merrill, it is clear that the demon actually has made her to be obsessed about the mirror (pretty much how Anders is drived by Justice).

Which short story?  I read the one where the demon called out to Marethari and Merrill in their dreams.  Is there another one?

My conclusion is simple.  Everyone in Kirkwall is batpoo crazy.  Everyone is possessed!  Demons demons everywhere!  Of course I ran off after the epilogue so I could get the blazes out of that place.

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 31 mars 2011 - 02:57 .

[OraVelnoria87]

I never brought Morrigan with me, so we became busted buds in camp. If she knew how goody-goody my warden was she probably would have chewed me a new one.

I liked Wynne, she was like the mother my PC never had T_T

[Hellosanta]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Hellosanta wrote...
 If you read the short story about Merrill, it is clear that the demon actually has made her to be obsessed about the mirror (pretty much how Anders is drived by Justice).

Which short story?  I read the one where the demon called out to Marethari and Merrill in their dreams.  Is there another one?

My conclusion is simple.  Everyone in Kirkwall is batpoo crazy.  Everyone is possessed!  Demons demons everywhere!  Of course I ran off after the epilogue so I could get the blazes out of that place.

I meant that one. The vision that the demon showed to her has drived her to go obsessed about eluvian, I pressume.

[Torax]

Truthfully now I like Wynne more and more cause at least she was Modest. All this talk about spirits not being demons with Anders and Merrill. I would actually like to see Wynne being all motherly towards Merrill despite her use of blood magic. Sure Wynne was the lecturing type but she did mean well and did have a heart of gold. It's why the spirit of faith helped her. She isn't a pawn of the chantry. She is just a good person. I'd take her over Anders anyday.

[Hellosanta]

Torax wrote...

Truthfully now I like Wynne more and more cause at least she was Modest. All this talk about spirits not being demons with Anders and Merrill. I would actually like to see Wynne being all motherly towards Merrill despite her use of blood magic. Sure Wynne was the lecturing type but she did mean well and did have a heart of gold. It's why the spirit of faith helped her. She isn't a pawn of the chantry. She is just a good person. I'd take her over Anders anyday.

I just hope that we could have Anders and Wynne together as companions. If Wynne was there, maybe Anders wouldn't have gone all paranoid.

[Vhalkyrie]

That's an interesting question. How would Wynne handle Merrill's blood magic? I can't see Wynne accepting it.

Wynne's reaction to observing PC blood magic.  Not shown here, but if Warden says they're a blood mage, she attacks.
www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 31 mars 2011 - 03:18 .

[Kyela684]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Marethari. Probably the only mage who never becomes a maleficarum, isn't infested with a spirit / demon, and never makes deals with the darkside.

And when she does become an abomination, its to save another person.

I loved Marethari.

As did I. Even way back in DA:O. (I was a Dalish Origin Warden).
That is an excellent point, thank you.
Awesome Mages: Marethari.

[Kyela684]

Hellosanta wrote...

Torax wrote...

Truthfully now I like Wynne more and more cause at least she was Modest. All this talk about spirits not being demons with Anders and Merrill. I would actually like to see Wynne being all motherly towards Merrill despite her use of blood magic. Sure Wynne was the lecturing type but she did mean well and did have a heart of gold. It's why the spirit of faith helped her. She isn't a pawn of the chantry. She is just a good person. I'd take her over Anders anyday.

I just hope that we could have Anders and Wynne together as companions. If Wynne was there, maybe Anders wouldn't have gone all paranoid.

It's possible, but he corrupted Justice. Turned him into Vengeance. Which I always thought really sucked because I made a point to show Justice the shades of grey in Awakenings. I was even starting to get through to him... and then Anders happened. Wynne probably would have had a lot to say to Anders, being that they are both technically posessed. I'm not sure why so many people forget Wynne has a spirit inside of her, too. I always wondered what kind of spirit it was and if being in Wynne corrupted it like Justice in Anders.

[Torax]

What was more amusing and awesome to me was that the Voice for Marethari was also the voice of one my favorites from Mass Effect. Doctor Chakwas. I was actually sad that she wasn't the one to greet my Hero of Fereldon but she was there for the funeral if my warden mad the sacrifice.

[Vhalkyrie]

Kyela684 wrote...
It's possible, but he corrupted Justice. Turned him into Vengeance. Which I always thought really sucked because I made a point to show Justice the shades of grey in Awakenings. I was even starting to get through to him... and then Anders happened. Wynne probably would have had a lot to say to Anders, being that they are both technically posessed. I'm not sure why so many people forget Wynne has a spirit inside of her, too. I always wondered what kind of spirit it was and if being in Wynne corrupted it like Justice in Anders.

That occurred to me too, that Wynne also was an 'abomination'.  My Warden had a conversation about that very thing.  I figured it was because Wynne is at peace with herself that it doesn't corrupt her.  On the other hand, if she is still alive, then the spirit is keeping her alive unnaturally.  Remember that she said it revived her when she felt her life slipping away.  My Warden also teased her about being a 'zombie' for this - lol.

The lesson I got from Justice/Anders is people in the material world and creatures of the fade just don't belong together.  Even if they are 'good' spirits, with 'good' intentions.

I just seriously hope that doesn't mean I have to kill Wynne in DA3.  

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 31 mars 2011 - 03:24 .

[Kyela684]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Kyela684 wrote...
It's possible, but he corrupted Justice. Turned him into Vengeance. Which I always thought really sucked because I made a point to show Justice the shades of grey in Awakenings. I was even starting to get through to him... and then Anders happened. Wynne probably would have had a lot to say to Anders, being that they are both technically posessed. I'm not sure why so many people forget Wynne has a spirit inside of her, too. I always wondered what kind of spirit it was and if being in Wynne corrupted it like Justice in Anders.

That occurred to me too, that Wynne also was an 'abomination'.  My Warden had a conversation about that very thing.  I figured it was because Wynne is at peace with herself that it doesn't corrupt her.  On the other hand, if she is still alive, then the spirit is keeping her alive unnaturally.  Remember that she said it revived her when she felt her life slipping away.  My Warden also teased her about being a 'zombie' for this - lol.
The lesson I got from Justice/Anders is people in the material world and creatures of the fade just don't belong together.  Even if they are 'good' spirits, with 'good' intentions.
I just seriously hope that doesn't mean I have to kill Wynne in DA3.  

It said that Wynne is dead is DA:2. I don't remember where, exactly, I just remember it made me very sad.

[Vhalkyrie]

Ok. Whew. Well I'm sad if that's true, but glad that I won't have to kill her in DA3.

[Kyela684]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Ok. Whew. Well I'm sad if that's true, but glad that I won't have to kill her in DA3.

I'm thinking DA:3 will take place in Orlais, (because Bodahn and Sandal are headed there), and it will ultimately become a search for Warden and Hawke. Neither of them would sit on their hands as the world goes to pot without some massivley intense "persuasion." Character #3, to the rescue!

[Hellosanta]

Wait, Wynne, died, oh what? That's unexpected.

[Torax]

From the Wiki

"Wynne appears to have been born into the Spirit Healer role as a natural. In her childhood, she can recall entering the Fade in her dreams and feeling a particular spirit watching over her. Later on in this game, if you get to know her, she speculates that this is a Spirit of Faith- much like the benevolent spirits of courage and compassion, but never before encountered by any mage except herself."

---

When ever she brings it up it's like she thinks it's was a spirit of faith. One of the beneficial spirits that mages never see. All she felt was a warmth wrap her body and she was able to feel the warmth of the ground again after death. She was never taken over like Anders does. Also when she is the one to go into the fade it is her in control not the spirit. She is not an Abomination like him. Or whatever he is.

Furthermore she's never seen it and never talked to it. She's only sensed it's presence in the fade. Now it is tied to her. If it helps in a battle she only feels it get weaker. Justice doesn't weaken. I don't think it's even inside her. It's just tied to her from the fade.

Modifié par Torax, 31 mars 2011 - 03:37 .

[Hellosanta]

Torax wrote...

From the Wiki

"Wynne appears to have been born into the Spirit Healer role as a natural. In her childhood, she can recall entering the Fade in her dreams and feeling a particular spirit watching over her. Later on in this game, if you get to know her, she speculates that this is a Spirit of Faith- much like the benevolent spirits of courage and compassion, but never before encountered by any mage except herself."

---

When ever she brings it up it's like she thinks it's was a spirit of faith. One of the beneficial spirits that mages never see. All she felt was a warmth wrap her body and she was able to feel the warmth of the ground again after death. She was never taken over like Anders does. Also when she is the one to go into the fade it is her in control not the spirit. She is not an Abomination like him. Or whatever he is.

Yep, I agree that her status is much different from that of Anders's.

[Sylriel]

Wynne is dead? Really? I missed that.

[Trophonius]

There hasn't been a mage that I've wanted to stab badly enough. Except for maybe Keilli, who was obviously a self-hating crackpot.

But while Wynne seems to be the most sensible mage, I can't discredit Morrigan either. Sure, she has an extremely sharp tongue that can easily drive you insane, but if there's one thing she discloses, it's that she won't turn into an abomination anytime soon. When you send her to the Fade to confront the Desire Demon, she specifically says, "do you take me for a fool? I know better than to bargain with your kind." Even the snarky option to say, "A cozy family of abominations and apostates. Sounds lovely," garners -5 disapproval. There are some boundaries she isn't going to overstep.

On the subject of Wynne and Anders' possession: the difference between Anders and Wynne's situation is something to consider. Wynne is living on borrowed time. She was at near death when the spirit of Faith possessed her. Anders, on the other hand, deliberately allowed Justice inside his body, at a point where they've essentially vitiated each other. We can also compare Wynne and Anders' experiences with templars. Although Wynne's encounters with templars aren't always exactly pleasant, she does recount a particular templar in her childhood, who would lift her up on his shoulders. Anders recalls nothing of that sort, with regards to early experiences with templars. All his life, they've been nothing but loathsome and abusive towards him. As a result, Wynne has probably learned not to generalize templars and confine them in one category, whereas Anders is very much willing to do so.

[LobselVith8]

Kyela684 wrote...

Wynne. Why is there only ONE MAGE in the ENTIRE Dragon Age Universe, that isn't a total pain in the coccyx?

I think the "Winnie the Poo" thread addressed another take on Wynne.

Hellosanta wrote...

... I've never wanted to stab Anders, sorry.

Me, either.

Kyela684 wrote...

I wanted to stab her when I realized that murdering the Warden's clan was the only way to gain approval at the end of that quest. Seriously?

She disapproves of Hawke blaming her and her blood magic for what happened to Marethari, and approves when you tell them the truth or tell them not to murder her.

[Tomomi]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

That's an interesting question. How would Wynne handle Merrill's blood magic? I can't see Wynne accepting it.

Wynne's reaction to observing PC blood magic.  Not shown here, but if Warden says they're a blood mage, she attacks.
www.youtube.com/watch

That is rather bias at best, in regard to that moment in the video.  To us players, blood magic is ... a magic tree, albeit it is rather odd type of magic, it is just magic.  But to people in Thedas, Blood Magic is something else.  Something more sinister, evil, that whoever possesses blood magic means that they are already dominated by demons, already gone berserk and lost their humanity.  Basically, blood magic is already beyond saving.  That is one thing that was not explained in DA:O, that why the Warden fell almost no change upon using blood magic?

And right after the circle being massacred by blood mages, I am sure Wynne or anyone else would even hold a straight face if they know the Warden is a blood mage.  To be honest, they would attack the King on sight if he uses Blood magic.  They have no affinity against you, it is more of the knowledge that if you are using blood magic, your body and soul are already taken over by demon.  Killing you is only to put you out of misery and keep the demon from further endanger those around them.  To be honest, the story in DA:O made Blood magic way more powerful than it is: I first thought Blood Magic contains an Ammargedon spell that would annihilate anyone in the room with 1 shot.

To be honest, I think when Wynne is calmer about the circle incident, and have more understanding of blood magic, she and Merrill can talk.  

[LobselVith8]

Hellosanta wrote...

Sandal says,
"One day the magic will come back. all of it. Everyone will be just like they were. The shadows will part and the skies will open wide. When he rises, everyone will see"

youtube video

It felt like ... everyone was supposed to have a some sort of magical power inside them. And since many walking npcs have spoken about how the population of mages are increasing, I think mages are not supposed to be just "minority" from the beginning (let's say beginning as before the first blight).

It's interesting how his voice changes a bit and he sounds so certain. I wonder how Sandal might change when this "event" transpires.

Vhalkyrie wrote...

This is why I had a hard time sympathizing with Merrill on her darn quest for that dang mirror.  How could she place the mirror above her clan when they desperately needed her?  She said she was only doing it for the clan, but she abdicated her responsibility as First.  Instead, the clan lost both the Keeper and the First.  Even if you didn't slaughter the Dalish, they are pretty much left for dead.

She didn't place the Eluvian above her clan, she believed it was a means to help her people. Merrill believed that the Eluvian could help her people in a profound way, so why shouldn't she have seized the opportunity? Should she have done nothing so the status quo would remain? She was willing to give her life if it meant that her people would have the chance to gain back a part of their history and culture.