182 réponses à ce sujet

[Sinapus]

JKoopman wrote...

Arrival contradicts the ending of ME2 in that, if you play Arrival prior to the Suicide Mission, you're told that the Reapers have already reached the edge of the galaxy and the invasion is about to begin yet, when you then complete the Suicide Mission, you see the Reaper fleet apparently just "waking up" in dark space and still what appears to be several hundred thousand lightyears away.

Only if Arrival is played AFTER the Suicide Mission does it make sense and not break continuity.

Harbinger: YOU HAVE FAILED. WE WILL FIND ANOTHER WAY.
*after arrival*
Harbinger: DRAT. WE NEED TO FIND ANOTHER OTHER WAY.

[ReiSilver]

I think the main problem with Arrival vs ME2's plot is that Arrival is SOOO much more relevant to the plot then the Collector/baby reaper were.
Our main goal is to stop the reapers, in Arrival we work towards this end. ME2 we... fluff around for half the game and then rush a suicide mission against the Reaper's mini-boss squad and see a large skeleton/terminator thing-y that was made through human instrumentality or something
We don't know how the baby reaper would have helped the reapers get here sooner, one reaper on it's own isn't going to be as invincible as Sovreign was in ME1 and we never heard any plans on how the baby reaper would be used. ME2 plot seems even more like a place-holder/filler after playing through Arrival

[maxulic]

The only thing that I don't get is that if the Reapers had a plan B from the start, that is Alpha Relay... how come they haven't used it from the get-go after Sovereign failed to take the Citadel?

[Randy1012]

Anyone else kind of wishing the Omega Relay had been the Alpha Relay instead? Though I'm not sure how people would have reacted to ME2 ending with Shepard foiling an imminent Reaper invasion at the last minute yet again.

[Spectre_907]

Since you can play Arrival after Horizon and before the Omega-4 mission, I think the Reapers were already on their way to the Alpha Relay after they learned that Sovereign was destroyed. The Reapers simply decided to eliminate their nemesis to by some time and resume their plans of selecting the correct species for 'ascension' before they arrived to exterminate everything else.

I think in the context of the narrative, Harbinger is speaking to the Collector General in saying that the Reapers will find another way to resume their construction of the Reaper-human and get rid of Shepard. It wouldn't make sense to assume that the Reaper-human was going to be another Sovereign with Collectors as it's new minions, especially given the massive amount of humans EDI speculates it would need to become fully operational.

[Thargorichiban]

Spectre_907 wrote...

Since you can play Arrival after Horizon and before the Omega-4 mission, I think the Reapers were already on their way to the Alpha Relay after they learned that Sovereign was destroyed. The Reapers simply decided to eliminate their nemesis to by some time and resume their plans of selecting the correct species for 'ascension' before they arrived to exterminate everything else.

I think in the context of the narrative, Harbinger is speaking to the Collector General in saying that the Reapers will find another way to resume their construction of the Reaper-human and get rid of Shepard. It wouldn't make sense to assume that the Reaper-human was going to be another Sovereign with Collectors as it's new minions, especially given the massive amount of humans EDI speculates it would need to become fully operational.

I always figured that the Reapers began to proceed to the Milky Way shortly after Sovreign discovered that the Keepers' signal had been blocked. While Sovereign was trying out all of his plans with the Rachni, etc.; the rest of the Reaper fleet was starting to hoof it the old fashioned way.

It has been stated that due to the immense distances between galaxies that a trip like that could take hundreds if not thousands of years even in FTL drive. That would make complete sense if they started to head on their way to the Milky Way a thousand years before when the Rachni war was going on.

At least that's my take.

[Spectre_907]

Thargorichiban wrote...

I always figured that the Reapers began to proceed to the Milky Way shortly after Sovreign discovered that the Keepers' signal had been blocked. While Sovereign was trying out all of his plans with the Rachni, etc.; the rest of the Reaper fleet was starting to hoof it the old fashioned way.

It has been stated that due to the immense distances between galaxies that a trip like that could take hundreds if not thousands of years even in FTL drive. That would make complete sense if they started to head on their way to the Milky Way a thousand years before when the Rachni war was going on.

At least that's my take.

That could also be the case. I forgot about the alteration of the Keeper signal. Vigil says that Sovereign could have been planing the attack on the Citadel for centuries and that Saren could have not been the first ally also.

Modifié par Spectre_907, 31 mars 2011 - 04:40 .

[SciOps]

Well thank you for all the replys and discussion. I just wanted to clear things up and there are a few different views in this thread that are very valid.

[Shirosaki17]

Yeah but if the Reapers had spent a thousand years traveling towards the galaxy and Sovereign somehow succeeded, then how would they get to the Citadel? It's implied that there is a mass effect relay somewhere in dark space right? I mean the Citadel becoming a Mass Effect Relay wouldn't just allow the Reapers to show up at the Citadel without a Mass effect Relay on their side. Am I right?

Sovereign spent several centuries looking for the conduit. Why if it only took 2 years for the Reapers to hit Alpha would they wait on him? And why does no one acknowledge that Sovereign spent at least several centuries looking for the conduit when trying to justify the Arrival's plot.

[Thargorichiban]

Shirosaki17 wrote...

Yeah but if the Reapers had spent a thousand years traveling towards the galaxy and Sovereign somehow succeeded, then how would they get to the Citadel? It's implied that there is a mass effect relay somewhere in dark space right? I mean the Citadel becoming a Mass Effect Relay wouldn't just allow the Reapers to show up at the Citadel without a Mass effect Relay on their side. Am I right?

Sovereign spent several centuries looking for the conduit. Why if it only took 2 years for the Reapers to hit Alpha would they wait on him? And why does no one acknowledge that Sovereign spent at least several centuries looking for the conduit when trying to justify the Arrival's plot.

I always figured that a Reaper fleet could always tow one of their Mass Relays with them. There have been stories of Mass Relays that have been moved.

That way the Reapers could be constantly moving towards the Milky Way while having the option of using the Relay if their fail-Reaper Sovereign actually succeeded for once. (Ever get the impression that with all of his failures the other Reapers were probably talking about him behind his back?)

[Baihu1983]

The story is fine but you should not be able to o arrival until you complete ME2.

[Dean_the_Young]

Arrival was always thematically meant to take place after the Suicide Mission: playing before is more of a gameplay conceit. As bridging DLC, however, it's meant to fill in that 'what the heck is Shepard doing' opening that was mentioned by Retribution which takes place a year later, same with Shadow Broker. That's why they have the 'months or years' measure: if you play before SM, it's a years-long-delay, but thematically it's more of a post-SM mission.

[morrie23]

I wouldn't say it contradicts, more like undermines ME2. The problem I have is that we don't really know what the purpose of the human Reaper was, all we have is conjecture. Is it a new Vanguard? If so, Arrival makes it look like the Reapers needn't bother making it (kinda dependent on when the fleet started moving towards Alpha). Is it a science experiment? If so, Arrival fits in better, but makes the entire ME2 plot look like a long sidemission on the road along to actually stopping the Reapers (especially if you destroyed the Collector base).

I'm not going to call it a problem just yet, put ME3 has some splainin' to do.

[Sinapus]

Sometimes, you never know.

"Yes, they are a mystery. And I am both terrified and reassured to know there are still wonders in the universe, that we have not explained everything." -G'Kar

[GuardianAngel470]

It should also be noted that time moves however fast or slow Bioware wants it to. We actually have no idea how long ME2 takes to complete in game-time, we only know that it took 40 real-life-time hours to complete.

So, Bioware could easily say that a large amount of time has passed between the end-game and Arrival and we'd be none the wiser until ME3 comes around.

It could have been years, making the final cinematic make sense.

Now of course this doesn't work if you do it pre-end game but then, who in their right mind would?

[GuardianAngel470]

morrie23 wrote...

I wouldn't say it contradicts, more like undermines ME2. The problem I have is that we don't really know what the purpose of the human Reaper was, all we have is conjecture. Is it a new Vanguard? If so, Arrival makes it look like the Reapers needn't bother making it (kinda dependent on when the fleet started moving towards Alpha). Is it a science experiment? If so, Arrival fits in better, but makes the entire ME2 plot look like a long sidemission on the road along to actually stopping the Reapers (especially if you destroyed the Collector base).

I'm not going to call it a problem just yet, put ME3 has some splainin' to do.

*Character driven story* Ahem.

Makes it look like our buddies will be there in ME3 doesn't it? They've stated that the characters were the story and no matter what you think about that, that was the intent. If that was the intent and the Collectors were the excuse and Arrival makes the excuse look even less meaningful, it kinda makes you think that the devs were right, the charcters WERE the purpose of the story.

[snakeboy86]

mrsph wrote...

Then just don't do it before the Suicide Mission if it bothers you so much.

its makes alot more sense doing it that way

[MrFob]

Shirosaki17 wrote...

Yeah but if the Reapers had spent a thousand years traveling towards the galaxy and Sovereign somehow succeeded, then how would they get to the Citadel? It's implied that there is a mass effect relay somewhere in dark space right? I mean the Citadel becoming a Mass Effect Relay wouldn't just allow the Reapers to show up at the Citadel without a Mass effect Relay on their side. Am I right?

Sovereign spent several centuries looking for the conduit. Why if it only took 2 years for the Reapers to hit Alpha would they wait on him? And why does no one acknowledge that Sovereign spent at least several centuries looking for the conduit when trying to justify the Arrival's plot.

There are several points to consider about assumptions.
- From all we know, the reapers didn't travel towards the galaxy but hibernated (stationary) in darkspace (vigils assumption)
- Souvereign was left behind after the last invasion at the end of prothean rule (vigils assumption)
- We don't know how long Sovereign wasactually active (at least 20 years if Revelation is any indication)

So much for this post, now for arrival:
- We don't know what the countdown of object rho really indicated (all we have to go by are the visions of some indoctrinated people, hardly what I would call reliable intelligence)
- Even if the countdown meant some sort of arrival, we don't know what kind. Given that we see the reapers still very far away from the galaxy by the end of ME2, I doubt they'd come there at relativistic speed. Due to the chage buildup limitations of FTL engines ,they should not be able to go by non Mass Relay FTL travel.

The way I see it, for it to make sense (ME2 and Arrival), the arriving force at the end of the object rho countdown is a contingency vanguard force of the reapers (sent a long time ago (way before ME1). Their objective would be to est up or align a relay in that system, that allows the main reaper force to come in (like they would normally have through the citadel). They would come here because the alpha rely allows for a fast travel route to the citadel, which is the key to controlling the whole galaxy wide mass relay network.
That way, it makes sense that Harbinger and the main force are still way out but there is also an imminent threat in arrival.
But still. it's all assumption, even Sovereigns exact motivation and the whole situation of the reapers in general were just assumptions, made by vigil / the Illos protheans. Reality (as in ME reallity) is stil completely up to the BW writers.

[CaolIla]

The thing is I would prefer doing the mission after the suicide mission, but then you have 3 upgrades which are pretty much useless.

[The BS Police]

Canonicly Arrival doesn't even happen untill after the Suicide Mission, I swear some people are just looking too much into this.

Modifié par The BS Police, 01 avril 2011 - 10:09 .

[Anacronian Stryx]

Shirosaki17 wrote...

Yeah but if the Reapers had spent a thousand years traveling towards the galaxy and Sovereign somehow succeeded, then how would they get to the Citadel? It's implied that there is a mass effect relay somewhere in dark space right? I mean the Citadel becoming a Mass Effect Relay wouldn't just allow the Reapers to show up at the Citadel without a Mass effect Relay on their side. Am I right?

Sovereign spent several centuries looking for the conduit. Why if it only took 2 years for the Reapers to hit Alpha would they wait on him? And why does no one acknowledge that Sovereign spent at least several centuries looking for the conduit when trying to justify the Arrival's plot.

Centuries???

Sovereign first learned about the conduit when Saren interacted with the Protheon Beacon on Eden Prime. And if you read Chorban's mail you'll realise that Sovereigns signal was stated to go of "around now" meaning that he first tried to send the signal just before ME1, And then went looking for clues as to why the citadel didn't respond.

[R3MUS]

1. The Reaper fleet is waiting for Sovereign to open the Citadel Relay.
2. Sovereign fails and gets destroyed.
3. Harbinger orders the Collectors to start building another Reaper, and while doing it, why not try to make a Human Reaper?
4. The Human Reaper were going to try assault the Citadel once more, this time with the Collector armies.
5. Shepard destroys the Collector base and the Human Reaper.
6. Harbinger gets pissed and says "You have failed! We will find another way!" to the Collector General who seem to be kinda sad.
7. Harbinger and the Reaper fleets start heading for the Alpha Relay to get directly to the Citadel to shut down the communications between the species.
8. Shepard destroys the Alpha Relay and Harbinger gets even more pissed and even say "Shepard. You have become an annoyance".

Ending with the last words, PREPARE YOURSELVES FOR THE ARRIVAL!

So, that means Harbinger and his Reaper friends are soon at the edge/start of the Milky Way Galaxy. Here ME3 begins, Shepard is maybe on Earth and doing this trial thing for blowing up 300.000 Batarians. And *KAAAABOOOOOM!* the Reapers have ARRIVED at Earth.

Also, Arrival DLC is the LAST/ENDING DLC for ME2 and is the bridge between ME2 and ME3.

Why any person would play the Arrival mission first/before the Suicide Mission is.... Weird...

[EternalPink]

I think the citadel itself is more important to the reapers since it allows them to cripple each organic civilisation that has appeared by blocking there travel and communications so no matter where they arrive in the galaxy they are going to make there way there (atleast that's what i understood from ME1 which does seem to be contradicted by the repears going after earth in ME3) for the huge strategic advantage that gives them.

I.e one civilisation could have 50 reaper killer warships for every reaper there is but since there spread across the galaxy the reapers just stuck together to have local superiority in each system and defeated them piece by piece

[Anacronian Stryx]

R3MUS wrote...

1. The Reaper fleet is waiting for Sovereign to open the Citadel Relay.
2. Sovereign fails and gets destroyed.
3. Harbinger orders the Collectors to start building another Reaper, and while doing it, why not try to make a Human Reaper?
4. The Human Reaper were going to try assault the Citadel once more, this time with the Collector armies.
5. Shepard destroys the Collector base and the Human Reaper.
6. Harbinger gets pissed and says "You have failed! We will find another way!" to the Collector General who seem to be kinda sad.
7. Harbinger and the Reaper fleets start heading for the Alpha Relay to get directly to the Citadel to shut down the communications between the species.
8. Shepard destroys the Alpha Relay and Harbinger gets even more pissed and even say "Shepard. You have become an annoyance".

Ending with the last words, PREPARE YOURSELVES FOR THE ARRIVAL!

...

I think this is pretty accurate if you merge 2 and 7. the whole Collector shenanigans was Something to keep Harbinger occupied while traveling...a road game

[R3MUS]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

R3MUS wrote...

1. The Reaper fleet is waiting for Sovereign to open the Citadel Relay.
2. Sovereign fails and gets destroyed.
3. Harbinger orders the Collectors to start building another Reaper, and while doing it, why not try to make a Human Reaper?
4. The Human Reaper were going to try assault the Citadel once more, this time with the Collector armies.
5. Shepard destroys the Collector base and the Human Reaper.
6. Harbinger gets pissed and says "You have failed! We will find another way!" to the Collector General who seem to be kinda sad.
7. Harbinger and the Reaper fleets start heading for the Alpha Relay to get directly to the Citadel to shut down the communications between the species.
8. Shepard destroys the Alpha Relay and Harbinger gets even more pissed and even say "Shepard. You have become an annoyance".

Ending with the last words, PREPARE YOURSELVES FOR THE ARRIVAL!

...

I think this is pretty accurate if you merge 2 and 7. the whole Collector shenanigans was Something to keep Harbinger occupied while traveling...a road game

Haha, like a kid in the backseat of your car when you are driving to the mall or something.

But seriously, i think i have explained the whole thing very well.