182 réponses à ce sujet

[Nathan Redgrave]

kaotician wrote...

No, I think he means after the 5 waves, when you're captured. However, I'm not sure when exactly it is established that the Reapers can't Possess indoctrinated humans.

I thought that voice was coming from Object Rho.

[kaotician]

Well, like anybody, just because their plan has failed doesn't mean they're just going to stop. They'll do something else, like anybody would. What's your point, exactly?

[Nathan Redgrave]

Elite Midget wrote...

So, it'll take them a full year to get to their next backdoor plan? I find that highly unlikely if they did have more unmentioned plans that were added in at the last second.

Did I mention how freaking BIG space is? A year is a pretty short time in terms of space flight, you know.

[kaotician]

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

kaotician wrote...

No, I think he means after the 5 waves, when you're captured. However, I'm not sure when exactly it is established that the Reapers can't Possess indoctrinated humans.

I thought that voice was coming from Object Rho.

You may well be right, in fact you probably are. Possibly relaying Harbinger via Kenson? Either way, if that's the best supporting argument for the assertion that Arrival is "full of contradictions and BS", I think we can all feel less alarmed that somehow we've missed something. 

Modifié par kaotician, 01 avril 2011 - 10:17 .

[Dave666]

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

So, it'll take them a full year to get to their next backdoor plan? I find that highly unlikely if they did have more unmentioned plans that were added in at the last second.

Did I mention how freaking BIG space is? A year is a pretty short time in terms of space flight, you know.

Especially for a race that are at minimum 37 Million years old...

[GreenDragon37]

brfritos wrote...

mrsph wrote...

Overlord was stupid in its own way.

It's different, Overlord story's can be stupid, but don't contradicts information that you are receiving while playing.

Like Harbinger possessing a human being, for example.

He/she was probably hallucinating from the effects of Object Rho.

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 01 avril 2011 - 10:23 .

[Nathan Redgrave]

By the way, Elite, I don't think there's another backdoor plan. What do we know about Mass Effect 3? We know that it involves the Reapers invading Earth--specifically, Earth--and Shepard gathering allies to fight off the invasion. Very Dragon Age, but that's beside the point. My point is, it doesn't sound especially strategic, beyond them targeting the homeworld of the species they percieve as the greatest threat to their success. It doesn't sound like there's any kind of backdoor plan at ALL. It sounds like they ran out of backdoor plans and decided to resort to the direct approach. Simply put, they had plans for the Citadel, and Shepard foiled those. They had some unknown intention in mind for the Collectors and the Reaper-human, and Shepard foiled that. They had the Alpha Relay on standby in case they had to give up on the Citadel, and the Alpha Relay went kaboom. How many "Plan B's" do you suppose they have? Answer: probably just the one, and that, alas, hath been spent. Which is why the Reapers might actually be defeated this time, because their usual swift, strategic, galaxy-spanning genocide spiel isn't an option, and they're out of backup plans.

[Monochrome Wench]

I always interpreted it was harby talking through Object Rho

[kaotician]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

brfritos wrote...

mrsph wrote...

Overlord was stupid in its own way.

It's different, Overlord story's can be stupid, but don't contradicts information that you are receiving while playing.

Like Harbinger possessing a human being, for example.

He/she was probably hallucinating from the effects of Object Rho.

That's my point too. Where is it established that humans can't be possessed? If that hasn't been established, then where's the contradiction? What we have learned, it seems, is that some humans are immune to indoctrination - the guard's reports towards the end of the mission tells us so - and it follows that this must be true for other species too - but I can't recall anything  in either game so far or any of the dlc's that suggests we're immune to Possession in that way.

[GreenDragon37]

Monochrome Wench wrote...

I always interpreted it was harby talking through Object Rho

It is.

[kaotician]

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

By the way, Elite, I don't think there's another backdoor plan. What do we know about Mass Effect 3? We know that it involves the Reapers invading Earth--specifically, Earth--and Shepard gathering allies to fight off the invasion. Very Dragon Age, but that's beside the point. My point is, it doesn't sound especially strategic, beyond them targeting the homeworld of the species they percieve as the greatest threat to their success. It doesn't sound like there's any kind of backdoor plan at ALL. It sounds like they ran out of backdoor plans and decided to resort to the direct approach. Simply put, they had plans for the Citadel, and Shepard foiled those. They had some unknown intention in mind for the Collectors and the Reaper-human, and Shepard foiled that. They had the Alpha Relay on standby in case they had to give up on the Citadel, and the Alpha Relay went kaboom. How many "Plan B's" do you suppose they have? Answer: probably just the one, and that, alas, hath been spent. Which is why the Reapers might actually be defeated this time, because their usual swift, strategic, galaxy-spanning genocide spiel isn't an option, and they're out of backup plans.

With regards to unknown plans, it seems to me that the Collectors were testing the viability of humans as potential Reaper material. Effectively, the human-hybrid we see is a lab experiment.

[Nathan Redgrave]

kaotician wrote...

With regards to unknown plans, it seems to me that the Collectors were testing the viability of humans as potential Reaper material. Effectively, the human-hybrid we see is a lab experiment.

I just don't want to assume that we know what those plans were, since we don't. A lot of people assume that the Reaper-human was intended as a replacement for Sovereign, which may or may not be the case, and seem to be judging the Reaper's actions based on that assumption, rather than judging the assumption in light of their actions, as they should.

[kaotician]

I see what you mean. I have it fixed in my head that we saw a first-trial experiment, and a glimpse of our possible future there.

[GreenDragon37]

I see the whole ME 2 plot as one big side-story.

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 01 avril 2011 - 10:34 .

[Nathan Redgrave]

kaotician wrote...

I see what you mean. I have it fixed in my head that we saw a first-trial experiment, and a glimpse of our possible future there.

Considering the Reapers' words through Grayson in Retribution, it's not unlikely.

[kaotician]

mrsph wrote...

You need Reaper implants for them to assume control over you. But Kenson's eyes were more for dramatic effect. Since she never exhibits that for the rest of the DLC and is more or less another crazy indoctrinated person.

I'm verging on the merely argumentative here, but isn't the issue of implants established for the Turians and the Protheans? And aren't both these races considered not good enough by the Reapers? Given the Rachni facility for mind/body control, and the plant (who's name I forget - Tholian?Thorian?) also having the capablilty for mind control sans implants, and presuming that their dna was incorporated into the body-politic of the Reapers, wouldn't it be possible for such a facility to be possible for the Reapers too?

[brfritos]

kaotician wrote...

What contradiction(s)? "BS of worst kind" is pretty strong stuff.

Let's see...

In ME1 and in ME2 people who stay near the Reaper artifacts become husks, always, not Harbingers. The "glow" around Kenson eyes is because Harbinger possessed her, the voice even change.

Second, if the Reapers want to use the Alpha Relay, why the hell they keeped the asteroid intact? Why not destroy it? No, you have to keep your enemy at bay, it's the smart thing to do.
Hackett send Shepard in a Covert-OP, the evidence against him/her is shody at best, but Earth needs a scapegoat for the Batarias (in Hackett exact words), so there will be a trial? And why does Shepard have to be court martialed when it was a COVERT OP?! WTF Hackett? There is any evidence left after that supernova? Yeah right, cool friend we have, hun?
Cerberus did not know any of this or even got a tip about it? Nice one bros.
Also, Relays can stand a Supernova, but not an asteroid? WTF! Supernovas are the force that create a galaxy, no matter what size we are talking about, the energy of a nova are trillions more strong than a direct impact of a rock!

Cerberus were the n.azis in the first game, but now are the saviours of the universe?

That's why people are calling a lot of events in the DLC "retcon".
I call this BS.

Modifié par brfritos, 01 avril 2011 - 10:46 .

[Anacronian Stryx]

mrsph wrote...

You need Reaper implants for them to assume control over you. But Kenson's eyes were more for dramatic effect. Since she never exhibits that for the rest of the DLC and is more or less another crazy indoctrinated person.

As far as i know Benezia never had any implants nor the asari who followed her and, I find it more likely that the longer you stay in proximity to a reaper or a reaper artifact the more influence they have over you until at some point you are completely under reaper control(if they have a use for you) or completely insane.

Implants probably just speed up the process and allow to have more precises control, At this point you're nothing more than a tool in the reapers hands.

The doctors eyes i just attributed as a side effect from Shepard being groggy and being in proximity to the artifact while Harbinger talked.