612 réponses à ce sujet

[Vat0_L0c0]

So for a Assassin-Duelist is better a Dex or Cun Rogue?

[Marbazoid]

Discobird wrote...

Marbazoid wrote...

I'm a bit confused on the verdict on runes in the offhand weapon.

So runes do not "proc" in the off hand weapon if you are backstabbing.

Do flat + damage runes (elemental, silverite) fall under this restriction?
Or a another way to put it, which runes are "proc" runes?

Best way to put it is this: offhand runes will never trigger their on-hit effects when backstabbing, whether this on-hit effect is a status effect (stun, slow) or extra damage of any kind. Does that answer your question?

Yes it does. Thank you!

[Silensfurtim]

Vat0_L0c0 wrote...

So for a Assassin-Duelist is better a Dex or Cun Rogue?

Lets have it this way:

Duelist Line

Dueling and Keen Defense Talents

Having DUELING and KEEN DEFENSE adds +10 attack and +10 defense. I don't think DEX Rogues need more of that. It does benefit the CUN Rogue, since they lack attack and defense ratings.

Upset Balance

It works the same as Below the Belt and Cripple. I've seen DEX Rogues not getting the Dual Striking Line so maybe Upset Balance is kinda useful for them.

Pinpoint Striking

DEX Rogues deal lame backstab damage. So I think dealing 15 second criticals regardless of angle is best for them.

Modifié par Silensfurtim, 09 décembre 2009 - 05:01 .

[De Bartman]

I've read this post over and over. I think I'm gonna build my rogue as described below. any suggestions?

1    15 dex 16 str 15 cun    Dirty fighting ; DW Training ; Stealth  ; Coercion
2    +3 dex   DW finesse   + Combat Training 2
3    +3 dex    DWSweep   
4    +3  dex    Flurry + Combat Taraining 3
5    +3 cun    Combat Movement – Momentum   
6    +3 cun    Below the Belt + Coercion 2
7    +3 cun    Deadly strike   
8    +3 cun    Lethality  + Combat Training 4
9    +3 cun    CoupdeGrace   
10    +3 cun    Stealth  + Trap Making 1
11    +3 cun    Mark of Death   
12    +3 cun    Exploit Weakness  + Trap Making 2
13    +3 cun    Stealth   
14    +3 cun   Stealth   + Trap Making 3

Why Coercion? Well, by the time your cunning is high enough the game's already gone for like 65%. wish I could fit deft hands in there somewhere.
Why focus on str and dex in the first levels? to get the most out of these stats before lethality hits. IMO this makes your rogue stronger in the first few levels.

Modifié par De Bartman, 10 décembre 2009 - 11:19 .

[plecha]

I've never bothered with tactics slots for the main. I control him/her, so why would i need tactics?

Modifié par plecha, 10 décembre 2009 - 11:10 .

[De Bartman]

plecha wrote...

I've never bothered with tactics slots for the main. I control him/her, so why would i need tactics?

You're right. I meant Combat Training as prerequisite for momentum and stuff.  Wll edit original post

[plecha]

De Bartman wrote...

plecha wrote...

I've never bothered with tactics slots for the main. I control him/her, so why would i need tactics?

You're right. I meant Combat Training as prerequisite for momentum and stuff.  Wll edit original post

Ah yes. I was wondering where you put that

[Besetment]

Silensfurtim wrote...

how much attack rating does Heroic Offense give? damn ive never thought of chain casting that spell.

It depends on the Spellpower of the Mage casting it but in most cases it is very significant. Lets assume a Mage with 80 Spellpower whilst noting that it isn't difficult to build a Mage with over 110 Spellpower towards the end of the game.

Heroic Offense Attack Bonus = (100 + 80) x 0.1 = +18

In terms of playing through the game from first level you can realistically expect to get anywhere from +12 to greater than +21 attack bonus from Heroic Offense as you build up your Mage's Spellpower. You can do this with points in Magic (1 Magic = 1 Spellpower), from items (i.e. Life Drinker, Destructionist's Belt) and from talents such as Spell Might, Spell Wisp and Arcane Mastery (ordered from most significant to least significant bonus).

Modifié par Besetment, 10 décembre 2009 - 12:35 .

[Cyberpunk]

Why is the Cunning Rogue not wearing Cadash Stompers? It has enough strength to.

[swk3000]

...I really hate threads like this. Oh, don't get me wrong: I appreciate all the effort Discobird put into figuring all of this out. However, for me, the issue isn't what I should look like at the end of the game; it's getting there in the first place. If I'm going with a Dagger/Dagger Cunning build, the assumption is that I'm dropping every Attribute Point I get into Cunning. If that's the case, where do the other points I need in Dexterity and Strength to equip the stuff I need, and to get the talents I need, come from? What skills do I actually use? Which ones should I get as soon as they become available, and which ones can I get a little later? I appreciate all the information here, but you're not giving me the meat and potatoes of the builds. I realize you can't cater to every person's play-style, but you've basically given us a map, said, 'You're at point A, and need to get to point B', but neglected to mention the nightmarish labyrinth between the two.



And please don't say, 'Just get the Respec mod', because I'm playing on the 360, so mods are out of the question.



And finally, how in the name of all that's fscking holy do you get the Felon's Coat? At level 12, I completed one storyline mission (Broken Circle), got my hands on 4 Drake Scales, and had Wade make the first Drakeskin armor, and then checked Herren's inventory figuring that he'd have the Felon's Coat. No such luck. And I know for a fact that if I bring him the 2 more Drake Scales I need for the Superior Drakeskin Armor, I won't be able to check, as Herren won't have anything to do with me.



I realize that I'm being unfair, but a bunch of numbers and a list of equipment setups is about as useful to me as a sledgehammer to the head is to you: in other words, not at all. Is anyone willing to help me figure out how to put together a decent character, or am I going to get yelled at for being an ****? I'm expecting at least one person to do the latter anyway, so don't feel shy.

[Silensfurtim]

well this thread isnt really about character build progression. its more of DPS calculations.

[OneBadAssMother]

Has this thread been updated with the 1.02 patch DEX fix?

[swk3000]

So I'm SooL for any help on building a decent rogue, huh? Fun. Guess it's back to my Longsword/Dagger STR/DEX build.

[Silensfurtim]

OneBadAssMother wrote...

Has this thread been updated with the 1.02 patch DEX fix?

it has been updated even before the 1.02 patch. Discobird already applied the dex hotfix. so its not different than the 1.02 patch.

[AKOdin]

@ swk:.... You acknowledge that you are being "unfair," that you "appreciate all the effort" Disco put in, but you "hate threads like this?" And you still posted that way?
Anyway, I think the term "nightmarish labyrinth" is overstating it. Disco laid out his assumptions on the first page of the thread. He listed the stat distribution you need to accomplish to be able to equip the things he identified. If you really want suggestions on how to do something, be more specific.
IE, "I want to make a DPS maxed rogue of race X. I plan on going Dagger/Dagger (or Axe/Dagger or whatever). I read some of Disco's DPS thread, but am hoping for pointers on the level by level build, like what talents to take when."
Hell, you might even add a "Thanks in advance" or something. You know, cause that will reduce the chance of coming off like someone with an entitlement complex.
If you actually post something like that (maybe in a new topic so as not to clutter this one) I'm sure you would get more helpful replies...

Modifié par AKOdin, 10 décembre 2009 - 04:34 .

[swk3000]

Sorry. I get royally cranky after an 8-hour night shift at work. Combine that with the fact that I can't look at the builds and say, 'Okay, I need to do this, this, and this', and the distinct lack of information on this game at the sites I usually frequent... Needless to say, I am capable of realizing when I'm being stupid and petty. Doesn't mean I'm going to let it stop me, but I'm more than willing to say I'm wrong. Which I was.



Disco, I apologize for being so harsh. My job sucks, and I occasionally take it out on others. Doesn't help that I've had 8 hours to stew over the fact that I'm not nearly as smart or dedicated as you quite obviously are.



Again, my apologies to you, and to everyone.

[Silensfurtim]

Sandal Approves +10

[AKOdin]

kooaznboi1088 wrote...

Why is the Cunning Rogue not wearing Cadash Stompers? It has enough strength to.

Don't the Stompers add hostility? Better on your tank if possible, but you really don't want hostility on a frail CUN rogue if you can avoid it, do you? 

Did the stats change on one of the version updates?

[Discobird]

Thanks for the input swk.  I should explain that the thread originated as a DPS discussion on the old forums and was never really intended to be a point-A-to-point-B kind of build guide.  But I can see how it would be frustrating to see these level 18 builds with perfect gear and stats and not know how to get there.  You're not the only one to wonder about this, I've been getting PMs along the same lines.
 
So what I'll do is add a brief build guide to the OP.  This will have a list of recommended talents plus a few pointers on what order to raise stats and abilities.  I won't be writing a detailed level-by-level guide for each build because, well, that's a lot of extra work  and there are a lot of subjective components to it that may vary with personal preference.  How soon do you want Device Mastery (if at all)?  Coercion?  The first two levels of stealth?  Trap- or Poison-making?  That sort of thing.  Hopefully this will help the newer players who stumble on this thread.

[Discobird]

kooaznboi1088 wrote...

Why is the Cunning Rogue not wearing Cadash Stompers? It has enough strength to.

I must've been working from outdated info, I thought they required 26 str not 22. I'll fix the OP and add that Cadash isn't unconditionally better than Silvehammer's since it has a drawback (increased hostility).

[EDIT] updated OP

Modifié par Discobird, 10 décembre 2009 - 06:04 .

[De Bartman]

Discobird wrote...
well, that's a lot of extra work  and there are a lot of subjective components to it that may vary with personal preference.  How soon do you want Device Mastery (if at all)?  Coercion?  The first two levels of stealth?  Trap- or Poison-making?  That sort of thing.  Hopefully this will help the newer players who stumble on this thread.

I think the skill part is the easy one. You need Combat Tactics 1-4 as prerequisites and the rest is optional and doesn't affect gameplay ihmo. I think it's the skills part that's gonna be some work....See my last post for a starter on this topic:P. You can quote me :happy:

anyhows  thanks in advance for the work

Modifié par De Bartman, 10 décembre 2009 - 06:16 .

[Discobird]

Updated the OP with several changes:

* I stopped assuming that the second specialization for all builds will be Duelist. This is unreasonable in light of the fact that Bard and Ranger are strong options as well. So I will just be assuming a level 18 human assassin rather than a level 18 human assassin/duelist. All the builds lose 2 dex and 1 point of damage. The second spec is left open to the player.

* I just tested and confirmed that bonus attributes from specializations do NOT contribute to meeting requirements for talents. They are treated as, well, bonus attributes rather than "natural" attributes. This means the longsword/axe builds will need an even higher dex investment to get DW Mastery than I thought.

* I was erroneously adding +2 dex to several builds for purposes of the DPS calcs (but not for purposes of attack or defense rating). The reasons are forever lost to time. This has been fixed.

Builds and chart (DPS, attack rating, and defense rating) updated as necessary. No change in rankings. Chart copied below for convenience:

Modifié par Discobird, 10 décembre 2009 - 07:00 .

[Khevar]

Discobird, one question on the stat split for damage bonuses.

I understand the calc to be (dex * 0.425) + (str/cun * 0.425), whereas before the dex fix it was (str * 0.85).

Does this mean that (ALL other considerations aside, such as attack/defense/critical/armor penetration/etc) the following would provide equal attribute bonuses:

90 str/cun - 10 dex
50 str/cun - 50 dex
10 str/cun - 90 dex
?

Modifié par jeffkretz, 10 décembre 2009 - 07:11 .

[swk3000]

Discobird wrote...

Thanks for the input swk.  I should explain that the thread originated as a DPS discussion on the old forums and was never really intended to be a point-A-to-point-B kind of build guide.  But I can see how it would be frustrating to see these level 18 builds with perfect gear and stats and not know how to get there.  You're not the only one to wonder about this, I've been getting PMs along the same lines.
 
So what I'll do is add a brief build guide to the OP.  This will have a list of recommended talents plus a few pointers on what order to raise stats and abilities.  I won't be writing a detailed level-by-level guide for each build because, well, that's a lot of extra work  and there are a lot of subjective components to it that may vary with personal preference.  How soon do you want Device Mastery (if at all)?  Coercion?  The first two levels of stealth?  Trap- or Poison-making?  That sort of thing.  Hopefully this will help the newer players who stumble on this thread.

I agree that it's a lot of work, and I wasn't expecting a blow-by-blow thing as much as some general guidelines. AKOdin has helped me work out a workable build up, so I'm happy.

Again, I apologise for my attitude earlier. I really do realise how much time and effort you have to be putting into this, and for me to come along and belittle that has got to be more than a little insulting. All I can say is that I've got the most boring job in the world, and I had far too much time to think about it. I shouldn't have been so harsh. If this site had a rep system, I'd be -repping myself. As I said, I'm capable of admitting when I'm being stupid and petty. Happens more often than I'd like, but I'm only human (contrary to popular belief).

Again, my apologies.

[Matthew Young CT]

jeffkretz wrote...
90 str/cun - 10 dex
50 str/cun - 50 dex
10 str/cun - 90 dex
?

For base damage, yes. Don't forget that exploit weakness and tainted blade only take cunning into account, however.