612 réponses à ce sujet

[beancounter501]

@Soteria - true they get a big bonus for flanking. Up to +20 I believe depending on the exact angle you are behind someone. Still, that works for both a cun and dex Rogue. A cunning one needs it though.



I don't know about the lock picking mastery thing. Really don't care about picking up an extra couple of coppers from opening a level 3 or 4 chest vs only being able to open a level 1 or 2.

[mrjazzman]

hrm guess I'll spread it out evenly then....

Maybe a tad more cunning for locks and traps since I don't plan on spending talents for that.

[Novadove]

Just for you guys' reference
dual dagger rogue lvl 34

full DEX build stats:

armor 28
defense 219
attack 153
damage 59.5 / 58.5
crit rate 78.6 / 78
armor pen 34 / 32

full CUN build stats

armor 28
defense 141
attack 125
damage 66.5 / 65.5
crit rate 87.9 / 87.3
armor pen 47 / 45

DEX/CUN (50/50) build stats

armor 28
defense 175
attack 137
damage 65.4 / 64.4
crit rate 84.4 / 84.2
armor pen 43 / 41

full dex build can avoid 95% of any monster attacks, can hit 95% of the time with time less critical
full cun build can get hit more, higher damage (100% hit rate without missing fyi), higher critical rate

the only major difference is, dex build can dual master archery and dagger, maxing it a flexible build in awakening.
cunning build is still strong but lack the flexibility of combining archery, jack of all trade and dual-wield dagger build into 1 character.

cunning is better in dao. dex is better in awakening.

Modifié par Novadove, 07 juillet 2010 - 04:54 .

[mrjazzman]

uhm so the cun build has a lower attack core but hits more often? how does that work?

[Romeo Longsword]

I always favor dex rogue over cun rogue from the start of DA, Awakening just pull the contrast between the two greater.



And in awakening, I usually don't use bow.



Dex rogue in awakening, the ability to tank is really quite good, and the damage between a cun rogue and a dex rogue is very little from my experience.

[Trickshaw]

Best rogue build bar none.

I hit 300-330ish dmg a backstab on all weaklings.
Low to mid 200's on high armored opponents.

Minimum talents required:

Assassin 2
Bard 3
Shadow 3
Rogue 3/4/0/0/4
Dual Wield 3/0/3/2

* Equipment *

Head: Quicksilver
Hands: Slippery Ferrets Gloves
Chest: Felons Coat (3 paragon stout runes)
Feet: Feet of the Nimble
Belt: Enduring Faith
Neck: Scout's Medal
Ring: Lifegiver/Ring of Severity
Main Hand: Voice of the Velvet (3 Intensifying Runes)
Off Hand: The Rose's Thorn (3 Paragon Paralyze)

* Stats *
(including bonus from gear)

Str 24
Dex 77
Will 16
Mag 14
Cun 104
Con 68

Armor = 27
Def = 165
Attk = 139

I'm pretty sure I got screwed out of stat points because I tried using that respec tome sold by wade. I'm almost positive the +3 to all stats you get from the fade in Origins got taken out of the total. I dunno. I failed to keep a previous save and check the numbers so I dunno bout the stats.

I rarely miss. I almost always crit when not backstabbing and backstabs are just ridiculous. I pretty much solo'd the dragon in Blackmarsh. I *DID* solo Mother and the Architect. The first game I've ever played where rogues were way fuggin OP. They suck for the first 7 levels. Get momentum and it's on.

Have Shadow Form + Weak Points + Song of Courage + Momentum active. Pretty much drains your stamina pool and you can't really do anything aside from backstab in long fights. That's why you gotta build up your stamina pool with gear. With my gear and all those sustaineds running I was still sitting at a stamina pool of 236.

When you gotta group of baddies coming, I just rounded them all up in a nice little group, popped Flicker and sh*t just died. Wipe up the rest with a quick tap of DW Sweep. This build is also ALMOST as good at tanking as Justice pimped out in Sentinel with Landsmeet Shield on a Templar, Champion, Spirit Warrior build. Vs melee he's actually better, vs magic users, that's where Justice wins out.

Bar none the strongest build out of any class combo I've played through. My only complaint about awakening was that I was still donning Felon's Coat because nothing else in the game compared. I bout exploded in my pants when I saw Voice though. I was like... I WANT THAT!

Modifié par XFracture, 27 août 2010 - 04:20 .

[Annihilator27]

What stats should a rogue have in the 30's? Im a assasin/duelist at 23. Also 360 version.

[rickcr]

Question about the DPS chart. Isn't this a HUGE thing to disregard:



"100% hit rate. Unfortunately I cannot calculate the hit rate of each build without knowing the average monster defense rating. However attack rating is quite easy to boost with party buffs. Anecdotally, some people have said they've achieved quite high hit rates with cunning builds."



If I hit twice as hard but miss three times as much I do less DPS. I think this is really critical to determine miss rates vs a pure cun build vs dex. I'm wondering if it turns out that in this case an actual hybrid cun/dex build ends up being the most optimal (assuming bard /song of courage etc.)

Again without calculating in hit/misses due to attack rating, I don't see how that chart is relevant to DPS because it's leaving out a huge factor.

[freddfx]

I don't know if this has been mentioned but the High Regard of House dace from the Golems DLC adds +6 CUN... i end up using that over the spellward.

[DWSmiley]

rickcr wrote...

Again without calculating in hit/misses due to attack rating, I don't see how that chart is relevant to DPS because it's leaving out a huge factor.

Certainly, an unbuffed dex rogue beats an unbuffed cunning rogue but there are lots of ways to buff the attack score.  A properly buffed cunning rogue is the biggest damage dealer and contributes in turn with a powerful Song of Courage.

[soteria]

If I hit twice as hard but miss three times as much I do less DPS. I think this is really critical to determine miss rates vs a pure cun build vs dex. I'm wondering if it turns out that in this case an actual hybrid cun/dex build ends up being the most optimal (assuming bard /song of courage etc.)

Er... not really. If Rogue A deals 100 damage with a 96% hit rate and Rogue B deals 50 damage with a 99% hit rate... in practice, I believe the unbuffed difference between the cunning and dex builds is 20 hit. IMO, it's more a question of how much you like defense than how much you like damage. Is slightly more damage and a few spare talent points worth the extra damage? Also, bear in mind that a lot of the difference comes from the Tainted Blade talent.

[Zjarcal]

The tainted blade combined with the Assassin and Bard specs do make a cunning build the ideal choice for DPS.

I still prefer a dexterity build because I love to have a high defense.

EDIT: I mention the assassin spec due to the additional cunning based damage when backstabbing with the "exploit weakness" talent. Although the Duelist spec gives that much desired attack score boost.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 30 novembre 2010 - 03:07 .

[CaseyPreston]

I know this is a very old topic but Im going to add my 2 cents, If you dont put any points at all in strength, and get dex up to 18 (3 points from the start for human rogue) and the rest in cunning you can make an unbelievably powerful rogue doing 400 damage plus with backstabs. Using Helm of Honneleath, harvest festival ring, andruils blessing and key to the city you can have enough points to wear any light/ medium armours and weild any daggers as your dexterity will be around the 45ish mark.

EDIT:

I should clarify it is possible to get 400 dps however that was in awakening at lvl 35, not origins, and you need 20 dex, not 18, if any one was interested.

Modifié par CaseyPreston, 19 janvier 2011 - 02:51 .