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[Silensfurtim]

Discobird wrote...

Silensfurtim wrote...

what benefits do i get if i say, use the Crow Dagger Dragonbone (+15% crit/backstab damage) than TotDG Silverite (+3 damage, +3 AP)? how is one better than the other as offhand?

Since +crit damage caps out at 50%, and Rose's Thorn already gives 30%, you can only get an additional +20% from gear before you hit the cap.

You can get +crit damage from four slots:

* Chest (+15% from warden commander armor)
* Gloves (+15% from Red Jenny Seekers)
* Offhand (+15% from Crow dagger)
* Ring (the Warden's Oath preorder bonus for Steam users gives +10% crit damage.  I don't include it in any of my setups because not everyone has the Steam version).

Because of the cap, you only need one or two of these +crit damage items, not all three.  I tried several setups and it turns out that the ones listed in the OP, with Thorn of the Dead Gods in the offhand, have the highest DPS.   If you use a Crow dagger you could replace Red Jenny Seekers with something else, but no pair of gloves adds enough DPS to make up for the loss of Thorn of the Dead Gods.

whoa i didnt know there was a crit/backstand damage cap. thanks!

[Timortis]

So I just realized, in my original playthrough, I had a Dragonbone Crow Dagger with 3 rune slots. I checked my saves to make sure. I remember that it was the high dragon that dropped it for me. This time, with my solo Rogue, I killed the dragon and got a tier 7 Crow Dagger with 0 rune slots. What gives?

[Chragen]

Also I think the best off hand dagger would be the unlockable DLC item "The Edge"



http://www.gamebansh...AO_Items.id=977



Got to say that I'm pretty disappointed with the items in DA:O. They just don't have the "soul" for a lack of a better word that items in say Baldurs Gate 2 had.



Also there's a real lack of cool items, so I at least found the game more enjoyable after I added all of the unlockable items. Though I'd prefer if they dropped from some cool bosses instead of you starting with at the start of the game.



But at least it gives you more choices.

[Silensfurtim]

how do you get The Edge?

[Chragen]

Silensfurtim wrote...

how do you get The Edge?

As far as I know it is meant to be a item given if you buy the game before November 30th I think. You should get a e-mail about it. I got the mail but there was no code or anything in it to actually add the item to my account so I decided to just download all of the unlock-able DLC items. I already got both Wardens Keep and The Stone-Prisoner so it's not like I'm pirating anything Bioware would have made money off.

Hopefully they will add the items in game for everyone to enjoy in the next patch or something so everyone got more cool items to enjoy in the game. Even better if they're added to the loot table of bosses.

[Timortis]

So I killed the High Dragon over a dozen times with my Rogue over and over, and it seems the quality of the Crow Dagger is random. Sometimes it drops Steel, sometimes Silverite and sometimes Dragonbone. It never dropped the Dragonbone with 3 slots, but I know it exists because it dropped for my first Rogue. So it seems to be a very rare drop.

[WillieStyle]

Timortis wrote...

So I killed the High Dragon over a dozen times with my Rogue over and over, and it seems the quality of the Crow Dagger is random. Sometimes it drops Steel, sometimes Silverite and sometimes Dragonbone. It never dropped the Dragonbone with 3 slots, but I know it exists because it dropped for my first Rogue. So it seems to be a very rare drop.

Just sell any crow's dagger to a vendor (I used Cesar in Denerim), then leave the area and return. If you're at least lvl 15, it'll upgrade to a 3-slot silverite crow's dagger.  Probably works with Warden Keep party chest too.

[Meggor]

Thanks for bring this thread back, been looking for it.

[Timortis]

WillieStyle wrote...

Just sell any crow's dagger to a vendor (I used Cesar in Denerim), then leave the area and return. If you're at least lvl 15, it'll upgrade to a 3-slot silverite crow's dagger.  Probably works with Warden Keep party chest too.

Actually, when I reloaded my save today, the slotless Dragonbone Crow Dagger had magically become one with 3 slots. There seems to be some sort of bug with it. Then I found 2 more of these, one at Cesar's and one at Alamir in Orzammar. Very strange.

[Grell74]

I have uploaded a patch for Rogues to have access to the 2Handed talent trees (this is compitible with all other mods - check my profile). I cant see it putting out comprable DPS to the DW tree, but I would be interested to see how high its DPS is.

Indomitable is sexy, Pummel is a useful 2nd CC and Stunning Blows is also rather nice. Coming out of stealth and shoving a 2Hander up a mage's prosterior never gets old and the rp of a Warhammer type Sword Master really appeals to me, not to mention the more strategic and hands-on nature of the rogue class, warrior 2Handed is a bit of a snooze fest and best left to the NPCs tactis I find.

Modifié par Grell74, 27 novembre 2009 - 02:34 .

[Silensfurtim]

what is CC btw? not familiar with term sorry

[Nataku88]

I have read a lot of post and a lot of different opinions, but i haven't understand what's the best build for a kind of rogue that i would like to play.

For my play style, DPS is important but i don't need to be the best, i want to be relatively indipendent (i don't want to need a buff to hit).

I think leianna will be inside my party, because i like a ranger dps, so lockpicking can be a work for her.

Cun/Dex (dagger/dagger) may be the best choise for me, but i have read someone say that is very hard hit without Str.



Can someone suggest me the best way (stats and talents)?

[wepeel_]

Silensfurtim wrote...

what is CC btw? not familiar with term sorry

CC stands for crowd control, which means disabling or incapacitating one or several enemies, preventing them from taking action. Stuns, sleep, waking nightmare, crushing prison etc are all forms of cc.

[Haplose]

Nataku88 wrote...

I have read a lot of post and a lot of different opinions, but i haven't understand what's the best build for a kind of rogue that i would like to play.
For my play style, DPS is important but i don't need to be the best, i want to be relatively indipendent (i don't want to need a buff to hit).
I think leianna will be inside my party, because i like a ranger dps, so lockpicking can be a work for her.
Cun/Dex (dagger/dagger) may be the best choise for me, but i have read someone say that is very hard hit without Str.

Can someone suggest me the best way (stats and talents)?

If you want your PC to be fairly independent I would say a pure Dex dagger/dagger would be good. You would have very good defence and good Attack. Damage output lags a bit behind the Str or Cunning builds. According to Discobirds excellent calculations, the difference is some 25% at most. And Str builds suffer from low defence. Cunning builds suffer from low Attack and Defence. Buffs can somewhat offset this, but I'm not convinced it's enough.

[Silensfurtim]

This is my endgame Dagger/Dagger Cunning Backstabber Rogue. My game isnt so bad, I enjoyed it. Can't complain. When Alistair activates his Rally and Leliana activates Song of Courage my character is an unstoppable killing machine. And when I let Shale join my party and activates Stone Aura, it gets better.

As you can see I have 89% hit rate and 50% damage party contribution.

Modifié par Silensfurtim, 27 novembre 2009 - 08:29 .

[Silensfurtim]

Here are the buffs by Alistair, Leliana and Shale for my character. Lelianas Cunning is very low here (22). I never leveled her Cunning. So if I leveled Leliana's Cunning, it may give more bonuses compared to what I have here.

Modifié par Silensfurtim, 27 novembre 2009 - 08:51 .

[mrjazzman]

+20 dex? I'm not that far yet but that seems massive. Where'd you get it?
Btw: I just started a rogue and I plan to balance cunning and dex which I think is the most rewarding combination post fix. Maybe a bit more cun than dex but only a bit....

edit: That's if you want to open locks etc effectively. Otherwise str/dex

Modifié par mrjazzman, 27 novembre 2009 - 12:24 .

[Silensfurtim]

+2 Assassin

+2 Duelist

+2 Helm of Honnleath

+2 Anduril's Blessing

+6 Felon's Coat

+2 Cadash Stompers

+2 Key to the City

+2 Rose Thorn Dagger

[mrjazzman]

woah - time to bay my xbox zevran felon's coat

[Tak of the Archives]

Hi Ladies and Gents,



Thanks for all the information... I do have a question though, and it may be rather stupid but please bear in mind that my maths skills are terrible. All these builds take in account various weapons and armour, some of them use the same items, some of them don't. If you run the calculations again with non magic items surely you would get a different and fairer picture of just how good the builds are? Sort of a control group, as it were. Basically I'm suggesting a fairer comparison would be with standard gear which is on the same level, as this way seems to be testing the magic items and not the actual build. Again, I appreciate the work.

[mrjazzman]

You do have a point - basically the dagger/dagger builds focused on dex and cun should actually be on par with the same eqipment because post-hotfix it doesn't really matter if you spend any given point on dex or cun DPS wise (with lethality that is)
Each give you the same dmg bonus. The only difference is dex also gives you 0.5 to attack and 1 to defense and cunning makes you better at lockpicking, coercion, stealth and some rogue talents
Or did I get something completely worng?

Modifié par mrjazzman, 27 novembre 2009 - 09:08 .

[themaxzero]

Tainted Blade DLC talent.

Overall though I find a Dex based Rogue to the strongest allround Rogue. The extra damage from Cunning Rogues I find is more then made up by the better accuracy and uber defence of Dex Rogues.

Modifié par themaxzero, 27 novembre 2009 - 09:16 .

[T0rin3]

mrjazzman wrote...

You do have a point - basically the dagger/dagger builds focused on dex and cun should actually be on par with the same eqipment because post-hotfix it doesn't really matter if you spend any given point on dex or cun DPS wise (with lethality that is)
Each give you the same dmg bonus. The only difference is dex also gives you 0.5 to attack and 1 to defense and cunning makes you better at lockpicking, coercion, stealth and some rogue talents
Or did I get something completely worng?

Cunning also boosts damage via Expose Weakness, Tainted Blood (WK DLC talent) and Song of Courage. (if you happen to be bard)

Modifié par T0rin3, 27 novembre 2009 - 10:38 .

[Silensfurtim]

buffed Cunning Rogue with Tainted Blade w/ Dex Hotfix



buffed Cunning ROgue with Tainted Blade without Dex hotfix

Modifié par Silensfurtim, 28 novembre 2009 - 12:19 .

[Silensfurtim]

edit.

Modifié par Silensfurtim, 28 novembre 2009 - 12:29 .