165 réponses à ce sujet

[tybert7]

 I say lord of the flies in a mildly derogatory way, looking in these forums and user reviews from all over the web, reaction to the game has at best been mixed, at worst, disappointed.  

But how many people actually visit gaming forums?  How many people go out of their way to review games?

I wonder, I think those who do are a tiny fraction of the whole, and their make up may be very different than the larger body of gamers, the flies.


We forums walkers are an elite group, spending so much time diving deeper into the game and news and perhaps our standards are simply.. higher than the flies.  

And so the thesis of this post is asked, is DA2 the lord of the flies, or the lord of no one?  Is there a silent majority of non forums goers that really thought this game was the bees knees?  

Some of you must have actual lives and know flies of your own who never visit game forums, never read more about games, what do they think?

Modifié par tybert7, 31 mars 2011 - 03:22 .

[RussMajere]

I love the game.  I typically do not have time to post on forums, but I find myself posting a crap ton here on the DA2 forums because I am tired of all the haters - especially the haters who do not even have the game and are judging it based on other people's comments.

In any case, yes I know other people that have the game and do not post on forums.  Liking/loving something typically illicits a more subdued reaction than hate/dissatisfaction.

[Sen4lifE]

tybert7 wrote...

 I say lord of the flies in a mildly derogatory way, looking in these forums and user reviews from all over teh web, reaction to the game has at best been mixed, at worst, disappointed.  

But how many people actually visit gaming forums?  How many people go out of their way to review games?

I wonder, I think those who do are a tiny fraction of the whole, and their make up may be very different than the larger body of gamers, the flies.


We forums walkers are an elite group, spnding so much time diving deeper into the game and news and perhaps our standards are simply.. higher than the flies.  

And so the thesis of this post is asked, is DA2 the lord of the flies, or the lord of no one?  Is there a silent majority of non forums goers that really thought this game was the bees knees?  

Some of you must have actual lives and know flies of your own who never visit game forums, never read more about games, what do they think?

Ever been to the registered game forum?....

[Sen4lifE]

XxTaLoNxX wrote...

I loved the game, my wife (a "fly") loved the game, my brother (a "fly") played all three classes to finish and actually was the one who convinced me it was better than DA:O in many ways and worse in others...

So yeah, the extremely vocal are actually the minority. And they always are because for every person who thought that Transformers 2 sucked there were 9 people who paid to watch it twice in the theaters. DA2 is no different. For every vocal "hater" there are at least two people who enjoyed the game.

The problem is that BioWare is trying to cater to the extremely vocal group of people (minority) and listening to them. The result is seen in the transition from Mass Effect to Mass Effect 2 - Mako vs. Hammerhead. Where obviously there was no clear winner but there was no plans for the Hammerhead until people were screaming for the return of the Mako at the top of their lungs.

The Mako was fun, but not twice.  I'm glad it died with Mass Effect 1.  Don't get me wrong, I loved it then, but playing through a second Mass Effect game spending the majority of the time riding around in a metal hunk would have just ruined the experience.  It's like a good joke, the first time you hear it, you love it and almost die laughing, the second time, it's lost all it's taste.

[Silentmode]

All of my friends have liked the game, a couple proclaiming thats its loads better than Origins, and they range from being casual gamers to very hardcore (about gaming in general not the DA series particularly). I'm the only one who goes on the forums and such and really gets into it though. I'd say the public at large considers it a good game because they rate it based on its own positives and negatives, where as more avid fans like the ones who hang around these forums compare DA2 directly to DAO and the reaction has been... mixed to say the least.

[Sen4lifE]

XxTaLoNxX wrote...

Sen4lifE wrote...

Ever been to the registered game forum?.....

@Sen4lifE: Way to troll and add NOTHING to the discussion. Registration has nothing to do with THIS topic and is completely irrelevant. I bought my PC version second hand without a registration key, I can't register my copy but I still enjoyed my PAID for game.

Way to miss the point entirely.

I was asking him if he's basing all the "bad reviews on the forum" off the open forum where those who don't even own the game can post for lulz or if he bothered checking the forum where you at least have proof you've played.

What's an old fancy term for "******," it'd fit just fine in this post.

[Boiny Bunny]

XxTaLoNxX wrote...

I loved the game, my wife (a "fly") loved the game, my brother (a "fly") played all three classes to finish and actually was the one who convinced me it was better than DA:O in many ways and worse in others...

So yeah, the extremely vocal are actually the minority. And they always are because for every person who thought that Transformers 2 sucked there were 9 people who paid to watch it twice in the theaters. DA2 is no different. For every vocal "hater" there are at least two people who enjoyed the game.

The problem is that BioWare is trying to cater to the extremely vocal group of people (minority) and listening to them. The result is seen in the transition from Mass Effect to Mass Effect 2 - Mako vs. Hammerhead. Where obviously there was no clear winner but there was no plans for the Hammerhead until people were screaming for the return of the Mako at the top of their lungs.

Yes, lol, because you, your wife, and your son liking a game, of course implies that everybody else who likes the game is silent...

[wulfsturm]

I just wanted to put this out there; I hated that book. Hated.

[Sen4lifE]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

XxTaLoNxX wrote...

I loved the game, my wife (a "fly") loved the game, my brother (a "fly") played all three classes to finish and actually was the one who convinced me it was better than DA:O in many ways and worse in others...

So yeah, the extremely vocal are actually the minority. And they always are because for every person who thought that Transformers 2 sucked there were 9 people who paid to watch it twice in the theaters. DA2 is no different. For every vocal "hater" there are at least two people who enjoyed the game.

The problem is that BioWare is trying to cater to the extremely vocal group of people (minority) and listening to them. The result is seen in the transition from Mass Effect to Mass Effect 2 - Mako vs. Hammerhead. Where obviously there was no clear winner but there was no plans for the Hammerhead until people were screaming for the return of the Mako at the top of their lungs.

Yes, lol, because you, your wife, and your son liking a game, of course implies that everybody else who likes the game is silent...

I really don't think that is what he meant.  Most gamers don't even use forums, and a lot don't even know the DA2 forum exist.

One of my real life fan is a BioWare junkie and is psyched about TOR and is on the swtor.com forum all the time, but didn't even know there was a social.bioware.com.

So yes, a lot of gamers who do enjoy the game don't voice their opinion.

Another side to that is either they are too busy enjoying it, they either play it or have something else to attend to, or simply that they don't care.  Being angry at something in a game is a lot more motive than being happy.  You're more likely to get on and rage about stuff than you are to compliment it.

When you get mad, you want to go yell about it and tell BioWare you didn't like it.  If you did like it, you're going to be playing it, and not really think about it.

That is at least the most likely scenario.

[chicken o doom]

I am what you would call a fly, the only time i end up at forums is when bugs and glitches tell me to(Its Merill's fault i'm here). I played DA:O many many times and loved the endless replayability due to the different starts of the races and the different effects that your choices had, like side with werewolves or have golems on your side...etc.I have played DA:2 now for a couple of play-throughs and it dosen't seem like much(if anything) really changes based upon your choices. I found DA:2 to be a dumbed down version of the first. Don't get me wrong I love the new combat but the lack of everything else makes this game inferior in my opinion and i'm not alone on this one, my fiancee, brother and the four of my friends that have played both games agree DA:2 was more like DA:1 and DA:O was more like a DA:2. Sure DA:O was more complex but in my opinion and that of my peers it was better that way for this genre.P.S. in regards to M.E. to M.E.2, the endless probing was way less entertaining than exploring in space car maybe that's why people were screaming for a new mako (when I saw the return of the vehicle ill admit I was happy. I could finally hear something aside from "probe launched" or the ever popular "probe away" and im willing to guess I have the people on these forums to thank for the hammerhead so a big THANK YOU EVERYONE WHO PUSHED FOR THE HAMMERHEAD, not sarcastic I really mean it)

[rarcius]

I guess I'm more of a casual forum-lurker here (and you can see it from the number of posts I made) since I prefer to spend more time exploring the game to reading mostly negative and some destructive feedback posted in these forums.

Sure, DA2 has weaknesses, as DA:O did. But some people choose to play along with it, and if they finally like it they can keep playing. If they don't, some of them would just think "oh well...at least I don't have to punish myself further by feeling bad about spending so-and-so bucks for this game. It's a done deal."

Then again...I guess I'm just an optimist. >.<

[Boiny Bunny]

Ah absolutely - the majority of gamers do not voice their opinions on forums. This is well researched and there is no doubt about this.

What is absolute rubbish, is to believe that 100% of people who are silent actually like the game.

The truth is, there are a lot of people who don't use forums, and out of them, you would expect a good deal who don't like DA2, and a good deal who do.

The people who DO post on the forums are usually presumed to represent a sample of the entire player population - and opinions extrapolated into the population.

There is no real reason to think that people who don't post on forums are fundamentally and stastically significantly different to those that do in terms of their opinions. So, if somebody were to accurately quantify that the proportion of people who don't like DA2 all that much was 70% on all forums, it wouldn't be entirely unreasonable to apply the same figure to the general population.

I know plenty of people in real life who don't use forums and thought DA2 was a piece of crap game. I also know a few who love it, and also don't use forums.

This argument about 'telling Bioware if you don't like it but staying silent if you do' is absolute rubbish. People who don't use forums don't use forums. It is quite rare to see a genuine person who has created a new account on a forum just to lodge a complaint, then leaves and never comes back. Most often when this does happen, it is simply an alt account of somebody who IS a forum user and wants to be more vocal about the game than having 1 account allows them to.

The truth is, DA2 hasn't been anywhere near as well received as DA:O, both critically and individually.

Obviously, there are trolls in either direction, resulting in the game getting a ridiculous number of 10/10 and 0/10 reviews on sites like metacritic, but it weighs far more heaviliy in the negative direction.

[Sen4lifE]

rarcius wrote...

I guess I'm more of a casual forum-lurker here (and you can see it from the number of posts I made) since I prefer to spend more time exploring the game to reading mostly negative and some destructive feedback posted in these forums.

Sure, DA2 has weaknesses, as DA:O did. But some people choose to play along with it, and if they finally like it they can keep playing. If they don't, some of them would just think "oh well...at least I don't have to punish myself further by feeling bad about spending so-and-so bucks for this game. It's a done deal."

Then again...I guess I'm just an optimist. >.<

Personally, I love Dragon Age II and Dragon Age: Origins.  Maybe DA:O more than DAII, but really that's more of a story thing than gameplay.  Even though I loved DA:O like no other, DAII is not DA:O.  And when you don't try to always compare it or think of it as DA:O, you really might enjoy the game if you try to experience it as it's own game.

For me, I agree with the average (from compared stats thus far, then again, I haven't compared -every- review) 7/10.  Honestly, only because of the bugs making it so difficult.  I think when the patch comes, I'll like it more as an 8/10.  But DA:O for me was a 9/10 bordering on a 10/10.

I've always loved BioWare games.  Never got to enjoy Jade Empire, Neverwinter Nights or the Buldar's Gates, but when I was younger I played the hell out of KotOR and have played it not that long ago again.  From that, ME and ME2 are one of the most memorable games for me and I enjoy the stories as one of the top (I'm a SciFi fanboy and for me ME even compares with Star Wars).  So.. yeah, that's my take on it all.

[TheMadCat]

Sen4lifE wrote...

I really don't think that is what he meant.  Most gamers don't even use forums, and a lot don't even know the DA2 forum exist.

One of my real life fan is a BioWare junkie and is psyched about TOR and is on the swtor.com forum all the time, but didn't even know there was a social.bioware.com.

So yes, a lot of gamers who do enjoy the game don't voice their opinion.

Another side to that is either they are too busy enjoying it, they either play it or have something else to attend to, or simply that they don't care.  Being angry at something in a game is a lot more motive than being happy.  You're more likely to get on and rage about stuff than you are to compliment it.

When you get mad, you want to go yell about it and tell BioWare you didn't like it.  If you did like it, you're going to be playing it, and not really think about it.

That is at least the most likely scenario.

Oh God, another "to busy enjoying the game to post argument". Plenty of people have managed to break themselves away from the game for a whole five minutes to post their thoughts and state their pleasure with DA2. I don't inheritly believe there is any more urge to post something negative then something positive, they both are done for the same reasons and to accomplish the same goals, morons who post useless BS with no other intention to rile others up not counting of course.

When does this "vocal minority" actually become something more? What evidence is it even based on that it is indeed a minority? We have microscopic sample sizes of critics and players opinions and that's it. Who can say there isn't a half a million people who were disappointed and upset with many aspects of DA2? I'm just sick of people handwaving this "vocal minority" for no reason other then an ignorant assumption that they are indeed a minority.

[Serpieri Nei]

rarcius wrote...

I guess I'm more of a casual forum-lurker here (and you can see it from the number of posts I made) since I prefer to spend more time exploring the game to reading mostly negative and some destructive feedback posted in these forums.

Sure, DA2 has weaknesses, as DA:O did. But some people choose to play along with it, and if they finally like it they can keep playing. If they don't, some of them would just think "oh well...at least I don't have to punish myself further by feeling bad about spending so-and-so bucks for this game. It's a done deal."

Then again...I guess I'm just an optimist. >.<

Curious, why is it that you believe people are punishing themselves by playing a mediocre game? Do you also believe the so called haters got together and paid for all the bad reviews out on this game? Do you beleive that Bioware can do no wrong? If thats the case then I hope you enjoy the recycled maps/instances/beastiary, the lack of content, game inconsistencies, the simplified game mechanis and dialogue wheel. The rest of us will continue to provide Bioware with feedback regarding the flaws in the game. Don't threat though, I'm sure a DLC is on its way that gives you another 60 minutes of content for 9.99.

Modifié par Serpieri Nei, 31 mars 2011 - 03:54 .

[Sen4lifE]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

Ah absolutely - the majority of gamers do not voice their opinions on forums. This is well researched and there is no doubt about this.

What is absolute rubbish, is to believe that 100% of people who are silent actually like the game.

The truth is, there are a lot of people who don't use forums, and out of them, you would expect a good deal who don't like DA2, and a good deal who do.

The people who DO post on the forums are usually presumed to represent a sample of the entire player population - and opinions extrapolated into the population.

There is no real reason to think that people who don't post on forums are fundamentally and stastically significantly different to those that do in terms of their opinions. So, if somebody were to accurately quantify that the proportion of people who don't like DA2 all that much was 70% on all forums, it wouldn't be entirely unreasonable to apply the same figure to the general population.

I know plenty of people in real life who don't use forums and thought DA2 was a piece of crap game. I also know a few who love it, and also don't use forums.

This argument about 'telling Bioware if you don't like it but staying silent if you do' is absolute rubbish. People who don't use forums don't use forums. It is quite rare to see a genuine person who has created a new account on a forum just to lodge a complaint, then leaves and never comes back. Most often when this does happen, it is simply an alt account of somebody who IS a forum user and wants to be more vocal about the game than having 1 account allows them to.

The truth is, DA2 hasn't been anywhere near as well received as DA:O, both critically and individually.

Obviously, there are trolls in either direction, resulting in the game getting a ridiculous number of 10/10 and 0/10 reviews on sites like metacritic, but it weighs far more heaviliy in the negative direction.

I don't recall anyone saying everyone who is silent loves the game.  Twisting words makes your argument invalid.  However, yes, I'd bet money that most gamers do not use forums; here's my evidence: the reviews for games only come in to the thousands when the sales for them go into the millions.

[Joush]

There are a lot of registered owners of the game on this forum complaining, demanding patches and discussing the flaws with the game. Yeah, if they were having fun with it they might be instead out playing it. But these are fans that have bought the game in the first month it's out and -expected- and -hoped- to enjoy the game. It's not random haters, it's a very vocal bunch of very disappointed fans.

[Lord Atlia]

I think that the consensus of the forum is an outlier more often than it is representative of what the population as a whole thinks. If you poll the forum the percentage of male Shepards is closer to the percentage of female Shepards however if you look at the population (at least a close estimate as some people unchecked themselves as a data point) male Shepards out number female Shepards by a large margin. Most people on the forums consider the romances to be a big deal where as the population as a whole could care less. As to whether the population views DA2 favorably or not I haven't the faintest idea.

[hexaligned]

Well if I was going to judge just on my own little circle of gaming friends, all of the PC gamers I brought it up to thought the game was an abomination. My fiance (the only dedicated console gamer I know, besides my 9 year old nephew) thought it was "ok" but she lost intrest in it and stopped playing shortly after the end of act II.

That seems to be a pretty good reflection of opinions I've seen here on the forums.

Modifié par relhart, 31 mars 2011 - 03:58 .

[Boiny Bunny]

Sen4lifE wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...

Ah absolutely - the majority of gamers do not voice their opinions on forums. This is well researched and there is no doubt about this.

What is absolute rubbish, is to believe that 100% of people who are silent actually like the game.

The truth is, there are a lot of people who don't use forums, and out of them, you would expect a good deal who don't like DA2, and a good deal who do.

The people who DO post on the forums are usually presumed to represent a sample of the entire player population - and opinions extrapolated into the population.

There is no real reason to think that people who don't post on forums are fundamentally and stastically significantly different to those that do in terms of their opinions. So, if somebody were to accurately quantify that the proportion of people who don't like DA2 all that much was 70% on all forums, it wouldn't be entirely unreasonable to apply the same figure to the general population.

I know plenty of people in real life who don't use forums and thought DA2 was a piece of crap game. I also know a few who love it, and also don't use forums.

This argument about 'telling Bioware if you don't like it but staying silent if you do' is absolute rubbish. People who don't use forums don't use forums. It is quite rare to see a genuine person who has created a new account on a forum just to lodge a complaint, then leaves and never comes back. Most often when this does happen, it is simply an alt account of somebody who IS a forum user and wants to be more vocal about the game than having 1 account allows them to.

The truth is, DA2 hasn't been anywhere near as well received as DA:O, both critically and individually.

Obviously, there are trolls in either direction, resulting in the game getting a ridiculous number of 10/10 and 0/10 reviews on sites like metacritic, but it weighs far more heaviliy in the negative direction.

I don't recall anyone saying everyone who is silent loves the game.  Twisting words makes your argument invalid.  However, yes, I'd bet money that most gamers do not use forums; here's my evidence: the reviews for games only come in to the thousands when the sales for them go into the millions.

I wasn't responding specifically to your post, but more the general ignorance of people who actually believe that a vast majority of people who don't post on forums love every game that they ever play.  There was no twisting of words, and my arguement, though certainly not directed at you, is perfectly valid.

I agree with you that most gamers do not use these forums (or any forums).  That has nothing to do with this discussion.  I'm simply pointing out that of those 90% (or whatever the number is) of gamers who do NOT ever use forums, there is no reason to think the proportion who dislike/are dissapointed with DA2 is any different to the same proportion of people who DO use the forums.

Thus, if 70% of people on the forums are dissapointed, it wouldn't be entirely unreasonable to assume that approximately 70% of the general population who buy the game are dissapointed.

[88mphSlayer]

to quote Kevin James: if the internet had its way, every movie would star Bruce Campbell

there's a lot of people who use the internet for news and information and conversing with friends, but the number of enthusiasts who visit forums and talk about anything in depth is a pretty small number, and you would be surprised at how many people just read forums but don't comment

Modifié par 88mphSlayer, 31 mars 2011 - 03:58 .

[Sen4lifE]

Before people start crying "NUMBERS!" I'll give a good example:

Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 2; I'm not a fan personally, but it's a good example as like it or not, it has a huge playerbase.

Since people like to reference metacritic.com, I'll use it in our "research"

On Metacritic.com, only 8181 people have posted reviews. However, Modern Warfare 2 has a collective playerbase of 20 million. The ratio of reviews to players is about 1:2445

So, either each player coincidentally knows 2445 other gamers and their exact feelings on the game and posted a view representing them all accurately or only a minority of players post reviews on forums or review sites of games.

I'm relying on the obvious conclusion.