165 réponses à ce sujet

[Boiny Bunny]

We are obviously arguing completely different things.

I am well aware of the fact that, and agree with you that, the number of players who post reviews OR visit forums is a very small percentage. There is no arguement there.

What I am saying is, of those 2445 players you just listed, how many like the game?

If 70% of people who DO visit forums don't like DA2 - it isn't a great stretch to imagine that 70% of ALL players who play DA2 don't like it - perhaps give or take 5 - 10%.

So - to answer the TC's question:

YES - there is a silent PORTION of people who loved DA2.

NO- there is not a silent MAJORITY of people who loved DA2.  We have no idea what the majority of silent people think and will never know for sure.  The best we can do is take in and accept the opinions of absolutely everybody who is willing to share their opinions.  Doing this, we get mostly negative feedback.

Modifié par Boiny Bunny, 31 mars 2011 - 04:20 .

[daemon1129]

When I enjoy a game, I don't go on forums and talk about it, because I would spend on the time I can spare to play it. When I do get on forums and actually start threads and post, that's when I dislike the game or have strong opinion of it that I had to say something about it. In this case, it is both, and my strong opinion of the game is very negative.

[rarcius]

You know, reading arguments in the forums is kinda like watching the battle of the senates in the house of representatives, sans the chair throwing and pushing and shoving, that is (not specifically in the US, mind you.) Heh.

Sometimes it's amusing, other times embarrassing. Oh well, just here for the amusement, that's all. =)

[Sen4lifE]

Again, I wasn't saying that all who don't post reviews liked the game. However, what compels you more to go post on the forum, "Oh, this game has great dialogue structure!" or "grrrrr, the sentence didn't even look like what he actually said!!"

I'm putting a safe bet that it's the latter for most people.

And, the majority of reviews that have been posted are positive.

The average review is probably around a 7/10. Not great for BioWare who usually achieves 8-10/10 (would go as far as saying 9-10/10 but they have had some black marks, including DA2). It has seen worse critical reception than it's predecessor; however, the majority of reviews are positive (yes, Metacritic.com has a bad review average, however, not all sites do, and balance this out.) So, if we're going off assumption that the majority of people who visit forums/review sites have the same opinion as the majority of people who don't (which is a fair assumption, I'd say), that would be saying that the majority of "silent players" enjoy Dragon Age II.

[Torhagen]

The 2 in the title is wrong i think apart from that i pretty much like DA2 thankfully they couldnt "Streamline" it the way ME2 was "Streamlined"

[Judge585]

I enjoyed DA2. I wouldn't have been on this forum had I not run into some initial technical problems on the PC. I read some hate posts along the way before I got the game in working order. Then I finished the game and found myself wondering where all the hate came from. Still trying to figure it out actually.

[Boiny Bunny]

^ Well, I guess it's a matter of perspective as to where you think an 'average' title lies on the scale of 1 - 10.

For major websites and publications, between 7 - 8 is a dead on average game. But I'm not referring to critical reviews anyway - they aren't really a good representation of public opinions on any game.

I would say that the massive amount of negative reviews/talk on forums and the like, all over the internet, is more than enough to see that a majority are dissapointed at very least, and have already finished uninstalling/selling the game on in the extreme.

Personally, I'd give this game a 5.5/10 (with 5 being true average, unlike gaming publications). That doesn't mean that I like it however. I just find it remotely more playable than a completely dead on 5.0 average game.

Many sites for this game have terrible review averages - and some have good. Both good and bad are filled with troll reviews of 10/10 and 0/10 - making it hard to get any real sense of what the honest reviewers have to say.

But all you need to do is look at a forum dedicated to the game. How many threads here are about the game itself, or things in the game? A few. They mostly die very quickly. How many are about how terrible the game is, or how the lead (designer/writer/etc.) should be fired, or why was X feature cut, or why are all the areas repeated, etc.?

Like I said, it comes down to a matter of interpretation - but it is definately not a clear majority that like the game.

[Harcken]

Said flies don't play Dragon Age II or RPGs .

[Sen4lifE]

Torhagen wrote...

The 2 in the title is wrong i think apart from that i pretty much like DA2 thankfully they couldnt "Streamline" it the way ME2 was "Streamlined"

I think the 2 in the title didn't make a lot of sense either because it takes place more alongside DA:O than after and didn't really have a lot of correlation to the first one.  It seems as if it should have been Dragon Age: SomethingCreativeHere than Dragon Age II simply because it didn't feel like a sequel as much as an extension to the first.

[Sen4lifE]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

^ Well, I guess it's a matter of perspective as to where you think an 'average' title lies on the scale of 1 - 10.

For major websites and publications, between 7 - 8 is a dead on average game. But I'm not referring to critical reviews anyway - they aren't really a good representation of public opinions on any game.

I would say that the massive amount of negative reviews/talk on forums and the like, all over the internet, is more than enough to see that a majority are dissapointed at very least, and have already finished uninstalling/selling the game on in the extreme.

Personally, I'd give this game a 5.5/10 (with 5 being true average, unlike gaming publications). That doesn't mean that I like it however. I just find it remotely more playable than a completely dead on 5.0 average game.

Many sites for this game have terrible review averages - and some have good. Both good and bad are filled with troll reviews of 10/10 and 0/10 - making it hard to get any real sense of what the honest reviewers have to say.

But all you need to do is look at a forum dedicated to the game. How many threads here are about the game itself, or things in the game? A few. They mostly die very quickly. How many are about how terrible the game is, or how the lead (designer/writer/etc.) should be fired, or why was X feature cut, or why are all the areas repeated, etc.?

Like I said, it comes down to a matter of interpretation - but it is definately not a clear majority that like the game.

You misread, I didn't not say it was an average title, I said the average rating was 7/10.  I base this out of actual research that I would be glad to recalculate on this thread (as I have before on other threads) based off of more than one review site (even including Metacritic).

And, if the majority hated the game to the point they sold it, who are the selling it to, if the majority hates it?  Contradicting!

[CaimDark]

I'm pretty sure there is a huge silent majority who both liked and disliked the game but don't care enough to actively participate in the community. By the way, if there is a distinction between "us" and "them" it's only that we are more enthusiastic and passionate about gaming, and I certainly don't think we are "elite" anything.

[AlanC9]

Fortunately, the spybots will tell Bio how much people are actually playing DA2, as opposed to talking about it on the forum.

[Sen4lifE]

CaimDark wrote...

I'm pretty sure there is a huge silent majority who both liked and disliked the game but don't care enough to actively participate in the community. By the way, if there is a distinction between "us" and "them" it's only that we are more enthusiastic and passionate about gaming, and I certainly don't think we are "elite" anything.

I disagree even with the enthusiastic and passionate part.  Some don't even know certain forums exist and may participate in others making them seem silent, or simply don't have the time of day to get on forums and enjoy video games whoever may still admire it as an art.

[Altima Darkspells]

Are the silent majority of people who love DA2 silent because they have ballgags in their mouth?

Because they're masochists?

[88mphSlayer]

Judge585 wrote...

I enjoyed DA2. I wouldn't have been on this forum had I not run into some initial technical problems on the PC. I read some hate posts along the way before I got the game in working order. Then I finished the game and found myself wondering where all the hate came from. Still trying to figure it out actually.

i did the same for PC demo issues, then stuck around for the hate train since i wanted to know what people thought about the game, i had nothing to play at the time so i found it all very entertaining

decided to put my $60 towards something else so i did that for awhile - even got around to finishing planescape torment, started participating in the discussion for fun, eventually rented the game 2 weeks after it released and enjoyed it

at this point i really don't have a reason to keep discussing the game anymore, i know exactly why people complained and the sound logic behind all of it but i still enjoyed the game despite its flaws, i could sit here and be conflicted or just stop caring and move on to discussing other games <_<

Modifié par 88mphSlayer, 31 mars 2011 - 04:49 .

[Boiny Bunny]

Sen4lifE wrote...

You misread, I didn't not say it was an average title, I said the average rating was 7/10.  I base this out of actual research that I would be glad to recalculate on this thread (as I have before on other threads) based off of more than one review site (even including Metacritic).

And, if the majority hated the game to the point they sold it, who are the selling it to, if the majority hates it?  Contradicting!

7/10 IS average by today's standards.  That is what an average game gets as a score.  Don't believe me?  Go and take a random sample of the last 1000 games reviewed by any major site, and average the scores.  See what the average score is.  Some of us still have drilled into our heads, that 5.0 should be the dead on average score, because that's what it was in high school/university, right?  But wait.  5.0 is not actually average at school, it (well anything below it) is a fail.  Getting 7/10 at school is average, probably even worse.

I'm not necessarily saying that the majority hate the game either - just that the majority certainly do not 'love' the game.  'Love' the game should imply, what, an average score of about 9 - 10?

More than that, the vast majority of people who purchase games do not know if they love the game, hate it, or anything in between, until they have already purchased it and played it.  They are selling to people who do not know (or people who believe/hope it will be great).

[Caralampio]

Why is it that people always assume that those who don't visit forums or don't post their opinions are mostly supporters of their point of view?

[pwnjuicesucka]

tybert7 wrote...

 I say lord of the flies in a mildly derogatory way, looking in these forums and user reviews from all over the web, reaction to the game has at best been mixed, at worst, disappointed.  

But how many people actually visit gaming forums?  How many people go out of their way to review games?

I wonder, I think those who do are a tiny fraction of the whole, and their make up may be very different than the larger body of gamers, the flies.


We forums walkers are an elite group, spending so much time diving deeper into the game and news and perhaps our standards are simply.. higher than the flies.  

And so the thesis of this post is asked, is DA2 the lord of the flies, or the lord of no one?  Is there a silent majority of non forums goers that really thought this game was the bees knees?  

Some of you must have actual lives and know flies of your own who never visit game forums, never read more about games, what do they think?

I would actually think it is divided into quarters.  25% loved it, 25% liked it, 25% think it is ok 25% hate it.  The problem that happened is there became a ¨Bioware is killing the Traditional RPG!¨ movement and that last 25% became tainted with bias without ever really giving the game a chance.  (not all of course I know some legit hate it)  
Now we get all these Dear Bioware messages from people looking to hate the game because it isn´t a traditional RPG and they feel like some how they are defending their favorite genre through excessive whining.   I really hope BioWare doesn´t cave into these basement dwellers and flips them the finger because I trust BioWare to do BioWare and if they want to experiment and take their games in a different direction let them.  As long as they are planning on making a Jade Empire 2 that is... 

[Crash_7]

If the game sells 3 million during its lifetime (not an unreasonable number), and we have 10,000 user reviews, then I think that little can be discerned from those reviews or the absence of evidence to the contrary. Keep guessing because we'll likely never know.

[October Sixth]

FACT: The silent majority is silent.

FACT: You do not speak for the silent majority.

FACT: Professional reviews do not necessarily represent the opinions of the silent majority.

FACT: User reviews do not necessarily represent the opinions of the silent majority.

FACT: We don't know what the silent majority thinks.

[pwnjuicesucka]

If 70% of people who DO visit forums don't like DA2 - it isn't a great stretch to imagine that 70% of ALL players who play DA2 don't like it - perhaps give or take 5 - 10%.

No it is a HUGE stretch to say that.  The type of person that will come to a forum differs GREATLY from your average player.  Go to a movie forum and Citizen Kane will be universally praised.  Ask your average movie goer and they will say ¨What the **** is that?¨ 

and from the Enjoy-o-Meter topic it seems like not even close to 70% of forum goes don´t like DA2.    So I am not going to say the majority LOVES Dragon Age 2 but the people with complete disdain for it are a minority as well. 

[Thibbledorf26]

The silent majority of gamers could hate the game as far as we know The people who post positive reviews online are part of the same minority as the ones posting negative reviews.

[88mphSlayer]

pwnjuicesucka wrote...

tybert7 wrote...

 I say lord of the flies in a mildly derogatory way, looking in these forums and user reviews from all over the web, reaction to the game has at best been mixed, at worst, disappointed.  

But how many people actually visit gaming forums?  How many people go out of their way to review games?

I wonder, I think those who do are a tiny fraction of the whole, and their make up may be very different than the larger body of gamers, the flies.


We forums walkers are an elite group, spending so much time diving deeper into the game and news and perhaps our standards are simply.. higher than the flies.  

And so the thesis of this post is asked, is DA2 the lord of the flies, or the lord of no one?  Is there a silent majority of non forums goers that really thought this game was the bees knees?  

Some of you must have actual lives and know flies of your own who never visit game forums, never read more about games, what do they think?

I would actually think it is divided into quarters.  25% loved it, 25% liked it, 25% think it is ok 25% hate it.  The problem that happened is there became a ¨Bioware is killing the Traditional RPG!¨ movement and that last 25% became tainted with bias without ever really giving the game a chance.  (not all of course I know some legit hate it)  
Now we get all these Dear Bioware messages from people looking to hate the game because it isn´t a traditional RPG and they feel like some how they are defending their favorite genre through excessive whining.   I really hope BioWare doesn´t cave into these basement dwellers and flips them the finger because I trust BioWare to do BioWare and if they want to experiment and take their games in a different direction let them.  As long as they are planning on making a Jade Empire 2 that is... 

i think there should be a line drawn between those that think DA2 needs improvement and those that think Bioware is doomed and we should all repent our sins for playing an 8/10 game