330 réponses à ce sujet

[Elite Midget]

That's a lot of theory crafting and hoops you're jumping through, huh? Now put yourself in Bioware's shoes after being told that "This" is your Budget, "This" is your Dev Time, and "This" is how large your Team is to get all of "This" done.

-Zulu-

Actually I am after thinking about it. Cerberus has itself deeply rooted in Alliance Politics which is why TIM is right in his arrogance to say Cerberus is Humanity. In a way it is if you take into consideration that nearly every person in a position of importance is corrupt and a Cerberus Loyalist. Thus a good reason why TIM and Cerberus gets away with so much and in ME1 when the Alliance refused to look into the deaths of the marines.

Of course his influence will be greater if Shepard is a Renegade and the Citadel races are appearing ungrateful on Shepard saving their behinds. Which is why I don't really support a trial for Shepard since a Cerberus Loyalist Shepard that saved the CB wouldn't be put on trial because TIM wouldn't allow it since he needs Shepard.

[Clonedzero]

Elite Midget wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...
]  so i take it you've never seen a movie, tv show, read a book, played a game, seen a play or anything where two characters know each other at the start of the story?

in most well writen storiesa majority of the characters already know each other.

and if not every ME2 person returns in ME3 what difference doest hat make? also, in most big selling games they pair you up with an NPC parter who's an established friend or partner.  usually in a "hey im your friend and im going to guide you through the first level of the game" type thing. i can think of TONS of game that starts you out with a friend of your character.

them referencing stuff earlier in their friendship/relationship reinforces that. again a majority of the time thats never shown in the game and is just reinforcing the point that they know each other. having that happen in a previous game wouldnt alienate anyone.

do you even know what you're talking about?

The Movie card really? Really?  Let me make something clear to you since you seem to think these unrelated things are alike. Movies are Linear, their plots always go one way, and everyone that appears in that Film has to be alive and doing what they're told to do. There are no variables in Movies because everything is already pre-decided.

ME is different. There are choices, variables, and the such that devait from the Linear path that movies follow. Sure the endings of the ME games are roughly the same. However unlike Movies the Inbetween parts aren't the same in all ME games while they're ALWAYS the same in movies.

When you try and compare things that are unrelated than you ignore what makesthem  'different' from each other you end up making your arguement look weaker than I could have ever hoped to have done.

you completely missed the point. you're saying having old teammates would alienate new players when thats not the case at all.

if they're a new player they wont be importing a save. therefore they'd have to use the default import choices. therefore they can have set characters to live in that game and use their established relationships to ease the new player into the story just like movies and books do all the time.

ill say it again just to be clear, if its a NEW PLAYER, the choices in the previous game will be already made for them already. so the choice of for example garrus returning and helping introduce characters to the story and events of the previous games to get them caught up. using them talking about the past together as a reasonable explaination on why they'd be talking about the events of the past two games is a perfectly smart thing to do.

the choices and viarables from previous games dont matter to the new player because they arent making those choices anyways.

if its not a new player and they're importing a game that that particular intro character is dead, they dont need to be eased into the story now do they? since they're importing a save.

[Elite Midget]

Arcian wrote...

You talk as if you know exactly how they plan to make the third game. Are you going to **** and moan if they "pander to the fanbase" even if the developers personally come to these forums and say those decisions was part of the original plan all along? Who gives you the damn right to decide what is part of the plan and what isn't?

I don't know all of the details but you act like it takes a genius to understand the facts. There are Variables, they can all die, none has plot armor, there's a time skip, this is Bioware, and they don't have infinite resources. Than there's the whole EA thing...

Really, what's so hard with acknowledgeing these facts?

Though you need to take a chill pill. I'm sorry that logic makes you angry but you need to calm down before you return to these forums.

[AdmiralCheez]

Arcian wrote...

You talk as if you know exactly how they plan to make the third game. Are you going to **** and moan if they "pander to the fanbase" even if the developers personally come to these forums and say those decisions was part of the original plan all along? Who gives you the damn right to decide what is part of the plan and what isn't?

He doesn't, but you don't need to get snippy.

EDIT: Holy crap, whoa!  Did you see that?  Elite and I posted the same damn thing!

Guys.  Buy lottery tickets.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 01 avril 2011 - 10:50 .

[Elite Midget]

Clonedzero wrote...
you completely missed the point. you're saying having old teammates would alienate new players when thats not the case at all.

if they're a new player they wont be importing a save. therefore they'd have to use the default import choices. therefore they can have set characters to live in that game and use their established relationships to ease the new player into the story just like movies and books do all the time.

ill say it again just to be clear, if its a NEW PLAYER, the choices in the previous game will be already made for them already. so the choice of for example garrus returning and helping introduce characters to the story and events of the previous games to get them caught up. using them talking about the past together as a reasonable explaination on why they'd be talking about the events of the past two games is a perfectly smart thing to do.

the choices and viarables from previous games dont matter to the new player because they arent making those choices anyways.

if its not a new player and they're importing a game that that particular intro character is dead, they dont need to be eased into the story now do they? since they're importing a save.

No, you missed the point. They aren't the same. It's like compareing Apples to Oranges while only listing that they're both Fruits.

If a new players plays ME3 they will miss out on Cameos and maybe Temp Squaddie Missions. That's it. The same thing happened for ME1->ME2 and the same exact thing will happen for ME2->ME3. This is Bioware after all and it's a beast of habit that has spanned years of making Video Games. You can't deny history because it's what Bioware continues to repeat over and over again.

A New player, like ME2, will only get punished by missing cameo's, dialouge, and all the 'goody goody two shoes' choices. None of this will effect the Gameplay of ME3 like not playing ME1 didn't do anything in ME2 other than cameo's and dialouge changes. That's it.

You also keep forgetting that Bioware planned each ME game in the Trilogy to be Standalone. Or that they're useing the "Time Skip" Excuse again to shake things up just like they did with ME2.

Also, your last comment makes no sense. What are you implying? That it's okay to deny Casuals, the MAJORITY, Squaddies in ME3 because their import wasen't the Best Possible Import from ME2? Really? That's just bad business sense right there and goes against the Standalone path that Bioware choose for each of these games.

[Elite Midget]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
He doesn't, but you don't need to get snippy.

EDIT: Holy crap, whoa!  Did you see that?  Elite and I posted the same damn thing!

Guys.  Buy lottery tickets.

Untrue. The only thing the same was the both us of asking hm to take a chill pill. We're still at odds and I doubt you agree with what I've said. That just doesn't seem like you and I would be dissapointed if that was the case.

[Clonedzero]

Saphra Deden wrote...

We're going to have a new team. One or maybe two squadmates from ME2 will come back. However I wouldn't bet any money on that.

It's been said by the developers that part of the experience is meeting new characters.

characters and squadmates are two different things, all your squadmates are characters, but not all characters are squadmates.

example: aria is a new character, but not a new squadmate.

[Elite Midget]

Not really.

Look at ME1 and ME2. All the old faces we knew are gone for various reasons. In ME1 Tali and Garrus were barely even characters and changed greatly for ME2. They felt like new characters and had their backgrounds explored just like Liara/Wrex/VS had in ME1. Especially Tali changing into Liara 2.0 that's nothing like the ME1 Tali.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 01 avril 2011 - 11:00 .

[Elite Midget]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Sure, whatever.

I can't wait to lick the tears from your cheeks when Bioware doesn't give you your dirty dozen back.

There's no need to get too into this since Logic and Fact are on our side. Thus if what we believe will happen does happen than we just stated the obvious which means there's no reason to gloat since it was the most logical path that would occure.

[Wittand25]

Clonedzero wrote...
if they're a new player they wont be importing a save. therefore they'd have to use the default import choices. therefore they can have set characters to live in that game and use their established relationships to ease the new player into the story just like movies and books do all the time.

ill say it again just to be clear, if its a NEW PLAYER, the choices in the previous game will be already made for them already. so the choice of for example garrus returning and helping introduce characters to the story and events of the previous games to get them caught up. using them talking about the past together as a reasonable explaination on why they'd be talking about the events of the past two games is a perfectly smart thing to do.

the choices and viarables from previous games dont matter to the new player because they arent making those choices anyways.

if its not a new player and they're importing a game that that particular intro character is dead, they dont need to be eased into the story now do they? since they're importing a save.

That does not even work in books very well. And works far worse in a game. You miss the fact that players of ME2 already know the characters and would be bored if they introduce themselves, and possibly angered if the tale does not match their experience, while at the same time if they come back and do not reintroduce themself a new player cannot form a connection with the NPCs.

There is a reason why the default safe for ME2 was the minimum carry over (no Wrex, no Rachni no sidequests) and for the same reason the ME3 default safe will have minimum carry over (every NPC but Mordin and Miranda dead/not recruited) if there is only one. If there is more than one default start to choose from there might be more variety but I don´t advise anyone to expecting more changes depending on import than in DA2.

[AdmiralCheez]

Elite Midget wrote...

There's no need to get too into this since Logic and Fact are on our side. Thus if what we believe will happen does happen than we just stated the obvious which means there's no reason to gloat since it was the most logical path that would occure.

One more thing, Elite--unless you are German, or speak German or a similar language, stop capitalizing your nouns.

[Clonedzero]

Elite Midget wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...
you completely missed the point. you're saying having old teammates would alienate new players when thats not the case at all.

if they're a new player they wont be importing a save. therefore they'd have to use the default import choices. therefore they can have set characters to live in that game and use their established relationships to ease the new player into the story just like movies and books do all the time.

ill say it again just to be clear, if its a NEW PLAYER, the choices in the previous game will be already made for them already. so the choice of for example garrus returning and helping introduce characters to the story and events of the previous games to get them caught up. using them talking about the past together as a reasonable explaination on why they'd be talking about the events of the past two games is a perfectly smart thing to do.

the choices and viarables from previous games dont matter to the new player because they arent making those choices anyways.

if its not a new player and they're importing a game that that particular intro character is dead, they dont need to be eased into the story now do they? since they're importing a save.

No, you missed the point. They aren't the same. It's like compareing Apples to Oranges while only listing that they're both Fruits.

If a new players plays ME3 they will miss out on Cameos and maybe Temp Squaddie Missions. That's it. The same thing happened for ME1->ME2 and the same exact thing will happen for ME2->ME3. This is Bioware after all and it's a beast of habit that has spanned years of making Video Games. You can't deny history because it's what Bioware continues to repeat over and over again.

A New player, like ME2, will only get punished by missing cameo's, dialouge, and all the 'goody goody two shoes' choices. None of this will effect the Gameplay of ME3 like not playing ME1 didn't do anything in ME2 other than cameo's and dialouge changes. That's it.

You also keep forgetting that Bioware planned each ME game in the Trilogy to be Standalone. Or that they're useing the "Time Skip" Excuse again to shake things up just like they did with ME2.

Also, your last comment makes no sense. What are you implying? That it's okay to deny Casuals, the MAJORITY, Squaddies in ME3 because their import wasen't the Best Possible Import from ME2? Really? That's just bad business sense right there and goes against the Standalone path that Bioware choose for each of these games.

if the important characters are included in the default import and any other returning ME2 squadmates are just bonus characters basically than how is that causing a problem to new players? they wont really know the difference. like my first playthrough of ME2 i forgot to install the free zaeed DLC, forgetting it didnt effect gameplay or cheapen my experience he wasnt vital to the game.

again, every "casual" i know that played through all of ME2 only had 2-3 squadmates die at the end. to have more than that die you have to pretty much actively try to kill them. and yes, i want your import to actually effect the story and gameplay, whats wrong with that? if im importing a save where characters are dead then im knowingly importing a save where characters are dead. no ones denying them anything, they still have access to those characters, just not with that save file. they can use a different ME2 save file, or use the default import.

and again, most casuals i know who've played ME2 only lost 2-3 people max. the suicide mission is harder than you think to completely screw up. like said you have to eitehr be actively trying to kill people off (in which case people importing such saves would probably apperciate significant changes from importing that save) or be really stupid and casual gamers arent stupid.

"gee they asked for a tech expert, maybe i should send the tech expert in, or maybe rhe robot"
"gee, they asked for a second squad leader, maybe i should pick one of the two people who have leadership experience"

[AdmiralCheez]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Fans like you and I are already a guaranteed buy.

In the land of abundant spoilers and extreme skepticism of Bioware after what happened with DA2?  I think not.  The pressure's on for them right now.

[Dave666]

Saphra Deden wrote...

lightsnow13 wrote...

They WILL NOT cater to the demands of new people.

Yes they will. New people means new money.

Fans like you and I are already a guaranteed buy. We don't matter.

Have to dissagree on this one, if they removed all of the Squad from ME:2 then I would simply wait 'til I could get ME:3 for £10 rather than full price.  I can imagine others doing the same or simply renting the game.  Bioware would indeed lose money and current fans are not garenteed money.

[Elite Midget]

lightsnow13 wrote...

They WILL NOT cater to the demands of new people. WHY? because in mass effect 2 they clearly kept the old characters tali and garrus. If you're lost with the story, go play ME1 and ME2 and catch up. it is not Biowares responsibility to inform you of every little thing and hold your hand through the entire game.

They should focus on making a superb game. To do that means including the older characters. Maybe not all, but including the main characters that have been there through all shepard has went through. Such an idiotic idea to think they are going to scrap everything that has happened in ME2 just to bring in a new crowd, when CLEARLY (since the game won game of the year) they do not NEED to bring in more people.

Yeah, like they didn't cater to new fans by removing Liara, Wrex, VS and than taking out the Inventory and making the game more like a Shooter. Oh wait a minute right there!

Not it doesn't mean that. Since they all can die and other variables it means ME3 must be able to finish under the assumption that none of the killables are needed to play ME3 or to even beat it without missing large swaths of content. Not to mention ME3 will be standalone like ME1 and ME2 were.

As this is a standalone game and all of the old Squaddies can die it means they would need a new squad not only for New Customers but Old Ones as well since a majority didn't get the Best Possible Save.

[Elite Midget]

Dave666 wrote...

Have to dissagree on this one, if they removed all of the Squad from ME:2 then I would simply wait 'til I could get ME:3 for £10 rather than full price.  I can imagine others doing the same or simply renting the game.  Bioware would indeed lose money and current fans are not garenteed money.

See, you're an old Fan. No matter what Bioware does some Old Fans will leave. Yet they can do so much to grab as much New Fans as they possibly can. Thus your leaving wont matter if it means 3 New Fans take your place.

[Wittand25]

lightsnow13 wrote...

They WILL NOT cater to the demands of new people. WHY? because in mass effect 2 they clearly kept the old characters tali and garrus. If you're lost with the story, go play ME1 and ME2 and catch up. it is not Biowares responsibility to inform you of every little thing and hold your hand through the entire game.

They should focus on making a superb game. To do that means including the older characters. Maybe not all, but including the main characters that have been there through all shepard has went through. Such an idiotic idea to think they are going to scrap everything that has happened in ME2 just to bring in a new crowd, when CLEARLY (since the game won game of the year) they do not NEED to bring in more people.

But having the characters remain squad-mates makes ME2 less important since you can only take two out for missions and the rest are standing around doing nothing on board of the normandy. Liara could only become important because she left Shepard and the same is true for Wrex.
If the ME2 crew leaves and only returns as VINPCs (very important NPC) like Liara or Wrex there survivial becomes more important for the story and ther implementation into ME3 also becomes a lot easier to do for Bioware. No one says that what you did in Me2 should be disregarded and that does not necessarily happen if you get a new crew.
And the majority of potential buyers of ME3 has played ME2 nearly two years before ME3 and not touched the game again since their first play-through and so has only a hazy memory of the ME2 crew once they start ME3. Like it or not those are the biggest part of the audience and their wishes are what is most important for the developers.