330 réponses à ce sujet

[Clonedzero]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

example: aria is a new character, but not a new squadmate.

Sure, whatever.

I can't wait to lick the tears from your cheeks when Bioware doesn't give you your dirty dozen back.

oh, i dont expect everyone to return at all. im only expecting 2-5 of them to return.

my guess is miranda, garrus, tali, jacob and mordin will return (if alive in import)
the rest i dont really think would return. in fact having all of them return wouldnt even make a whole ton of sense in alot of cases.

[Elite Midget]

Why Garrus and Legion? Miranda has more plot armor than any of them and Legion could be given to Cerberus...

[Dave666]

Elite Midget wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Have to dissagree on this one, if they removed all of the Squad from ME:2 then I would simply wait 'til I could get ME:3 for £10 rather than full price.  I can imagine others doing the same or simply renting the game.  Bioware would indeed lose money and current fans are not garenteed money.

See, you're an old Fan. No matter what Bioware does some Old Fans will leave. Yet they can do so much to grab as much New Fans as they possibly can. Thus your leaving wont matter if it means 3 New Fans take your place.

You're missing the point Elite.  No business with a modicum of common sense would deliberately alienate current fans unless they can absolutely guarentee that they can replace said fans.  If anything they want to keep their current fans and add to them.  'Cause that makes more money...

[Elite Midget]

Dave666 wrote...

You're missing the point Elite.  No business with a modicum of common sense would deliberately alienate current fans unless they can absolutely guarentee that they can replace said fans.  If anything they want to keep their current fans and add to them.  'Cause that makes more money...

Actually many businesses would and do that exact same thing on a constant basis. Look at every big Developer out there and you'll know this to be true. Also, look at the jump between ME1 and ME2. They gained 'many' fans but they also lost 'some' fans as well. You have to expect this stuff to occure again because it's a classic Bioware style to always try new things even if it might push the old away as it has constantly done in the past.

[AdmiralCheez]

Elite Midget wrote...

Yeah, like they didn't cater to new fans by removing Liara, Wrex, VS and than taking out the Inventory and making the game more like a Shooter. Oh wait a minute right there!

People complained that the combat sucked, so the gunplay was improved. (good)
People complained that the inventory sucked, so it was stripped down. (right direction, but not quite)
People complained that the Mako sucked, so we got planet scanning. (fail)
People asked to be able to have sex with an angry space chicken, and they recieved. (oh god yes)

They listened to the old fans, baby, and three out of four of the above changes made me quite happy.

Not it doesn't mean that. Since they all can die and other variables it means ME3 must be able to finish under the assumption that none of the killables are needed to play ME3 or to even beat it without missing large swaths of content. Not to mention ME3 will be standalone like ME1 and ME2 were.

This is true.  However, careful manipulation of the default new game and the addition of enough new squadmates to ensure balance could avert this.  The only people who "suffer" would be the folks that lost almost all of their squad in ME2, but they could still win ME3 with no problem and could easily run through the SM again and save everyone.  It's an easy fix.  Besides, since squadmate survival has to do with your ability as a commander and not the moral decisions you make, it wouldn't be "punishment."

If you killed so-and-so on purpose, it is because, for whatever reason, you did not want to see them again.  Therefore, you have no right to complain when they don't show up because they're dead.

As this is a standalone game and all of the old Squaddies can die it means they would need a new squad not only for New Customers but Old Ones as well since a majority didn't get the Best Possible Save.

The majority only experienced 14% casualties, so any given squadmate (apart from Kaishley and Samorinth) is more likely to be alive than dead.  Source.

[Elite Midget]

Arcian wrote...

They are both awesome bros. Plus legion's got a virtual boner for Shepard and a hole that needs filling.

You know what I mean, BioWare.

They're both awesome is an opinion. Plot-wise Miranda and Mordin are more important than them and if there had to be any default Squaddies they should be based on importance not a popularity contest that will anger the neglected. At least if it's based off importance it wont look biased and fans will have less reasons to rage.

[Clonedzero]

Elite Midget wrote...

lightsnow13 wrote...

They WILL NOT cater to the demands of new people. WHY? because in mass effect 2 they clearly kept the old characters tali and garrus. If you're lost with the story, go play ME1 and ME2 and catch up. it is not Biowares responsibility to inform you of every little thing and hold your hand through the entire game.

They should focus on making a superb game. To do that means including the older characters. Maybe not all, but including the main characters that have been there through all shepard has went through. Such an idiotic idea to think they are going to scrap everything that has happened in ME2 just to bring in a new crowd, when CLEARLY (since the game won game of the year) they do not NEED to bring in more people.

Yeah, like they didn't cater to new fans by removing Liara, Wrex, VS and than taking out the Inventory and making the game more like a Shooter. Oh wait a minute right there!

Not it doesn't mean that. Since they all can die and other variables it means ME3 must be able to finish under the assumption that none of the killables are needed to play ME3 or to even beat it without missing large swaths of content. Not to mention ME3 will be standalone like ME1 and ME2 were.

As this is a standalone game and all of the old Squaddies can die it means they would need a new squad not only for New Customers but Old Ones as well since a majority didn't get the Best Possible Save.

how is taking out old characters catering to new fans? its really not hard to introduce existing characters to new players, they do it all the time in other games. and like i said before, they generally use the implied friendship new players feel from those characters to ease them into the story.

also i dont know why you insist that because its a new player they have to be introduced to new characters. if the character is a new one or old one it doesnt matter, the character is still new to them. in fact the character being an old character having history with the players character establishes connections to the story to catch the new palyer up ont eh story in an easy way. the two characters talking about what they did together is a good segway and subtle way to revisit the events of the previous games to again, catch the new people up on the story.

also removing the VS and liara from playable squad mates was MORE confusing to new players i remember talking to my friend who never played ME1 and he was telling me about horizon, was something like

Me: "hey man, youg et any further in ME2?"
him: "yeah, i just finished horizon, at the end this random chick came up to me and started yelling at me, i had no idea who she was wtf? she never really explained who she was very well all they said was that my guy knew her from somewhere"

so i had to explain to him who ashley was because he was confused about it. granted he isn't the smartest person i know lol, but still i can understand how having her be there would be confusing to a new player. since all he got out of her was a 2 minute scolding lol

[AdmiralCheez]

Elite Midget wrote...

They're both awesome is an opinion. Plot-wise Miranda and Mordin are more important than them and if there had to be any default Squaddies they should be based on importance not a popularity contest that will anger the neglected. At least if it's based off importance it wont look biased and fans will have less reasons to rage.

Dude, it was a light-hearted and humorous response and you broke it.

[thatguy212]

So am i the only one here that is eager to see who if any the new squadmembers will be? I'm all for having a few of the ME2 team back but some of them could be doing better things to help fight the reapers then hanging around with shepard

[AdmiralCheez]

thatguy212 wrote...

So am i the only one here that is eager to see who if any the new squadmembers will be? I'm all for having a few of the ME2 team back but some of them could be doing better things to help fight the reapers then hanging around with shepard

Dude, I am stoked for the new guys.  FemTurian plz plz plz?

[Clonedzero]

thatguy212 wrote...

So am i the only one here that is eager to see who if any the new squadmembers will be? I'm all for having a few of the ME2 team back but some of them could be doing better things to help fight the reapers then hanging around with shepard

i wanna ride around on an elcor squadmate

maybe have a volus squadmate and use my biotics to bounce him around like a little pinball smashing into enemies, kinda like the vanguards charge, but instead of me being the cannonball its the little volus dude.

[Elite Midget]

Yet we still had...

Old Fans whine about the Combat change while New Fans loved it.
Old Fans missed the Inventory while New Fans loved it being streamlined.
Old Fans that miss the Mako while New Fans don't even bat an eye.

I concide on them ruining Tali and turning her into a sexable Liara 2.0. That's what many Old Fans did want I suppose.

Or they could save themselves headache and just make an all new squad that're all a part of te ME3 story... Especially if they throw out the hated Loyalty system. Those that would suffer are the Casuals over the Hardcores and the Casuals are the majority. So why punish the Majority to appease the Minority that will never be satisfied? And yes it would be punishment because not having a Squaddie does effect the Gameplay and your Gameplay choices for Missions.

Not likeing someone doesn't mean they should have less Squaddies in ME3 that's supposed to be a standalone experience.

Yet the character casualties aren't all the same characters in every save and not all of the survive characters are Loyal since it's possible to have them alive yet unloyal. Than there are those that said they would leave as well such as Samara. It's simply a headache if they factor the variables over just retconning things out of making a brand new Squad to meet.

After all, part of the fun is meeting new faces to play with, right? Not to mentionthat ME3 has to be able to standalone on its own. Such as its own new LIs and the such that're expected in these types of games made by Bioware.

[Dave666]

Elite Midget wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

You're missing the point Elite.  No business with a modicum of common sense would deliberately alienate current fans unless they can absolutely guarentee that they can replace said fans.  If anything they want to keep their current fans and add to them.  'Cause that makes more money...

Actually many businesses would and do that exact same thing on a constant basis. Look at every big Developer out there and you'll know this to be true. Also, look at the jump between ME1 and ME2. They gained 'many' fans but they also lost 'some' fans as well. You have to expect this stuff to occure again because it's a classic Bioware style to always try new things even if it might push the old away as it has constantly done in the past.

Any time that a business does something that they know will alienate fans they take a gamble.  Taking that gamble does not mean that its garenteed to pay off. You've mentioned companies that have done this and it payed off, what about all of those companies that tried the same and are no longer with us?  You CANNOT garentee that you will get new fans to replace old ones, you can only hope that you do, or the companies that tried the same and failed would still be with us.

[thatguy212]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

thatguy212 wrote...

So am i the only one here that is eager to see who if any the new squadmembers will be? I'm all for having a few of the ME2 team back but some of them could be doing better things to help fight the reapers then hanging around with shepard

Dude, I am stoked for the new guys.  FemTurian plz plz plz?

I'm hoping to see some of the people they considered to be the first human spectre because shepard obviously wasn't the only one they were considering

[Elite Midget]

Dave666 wrote...
Any time that a business does something that they know will alienate fans they take a gamble.  Taking that gamble does not mean that its garenteed to pay off. You've mentioned companies that have done this and it payed off, what about all of those companies that tried the same and are no longer with us?  You CANNOT garentee that you will get new fans to replace old ones, you can only hope that you do, or the companies that tried the same and failed would still be with us.

Tell me, when hasen't Bioware taken a gamble if it means they'll end up with a broader fanbase? Not to mention thta Bioware has constantly said it wants a larger fanbase such as the CoD fanbase. Also, if Bioware doesn't take gambles and risks than they will stagnate and become forgotten like many other past Developers that refused to take big risks in the name of growth.

Your Old Fans will always be your biggset critics no matter what a Developer does. Thus you can't rely on them to remain for years on end if you don't take risks to expand.

For example. How many of Bioware's current fanbase was around for NWNs or BG compared to all their new fans?

[Elite Midget]

Arcian wrote...

I'm an Old Fan and i liked the Combat change.
I'm an Old Fan and i didn't care much for the Inventory.
I'm an Old Fan and i didn't miss the Mako terribly.

What does that make me, really?

gameface.jpg

A different category of Old Fans.

What, were you expecting to get a rise out of me with that tongue and cheek comment?

[Clonedzero]

Elite Midget wrote...

Yet we still had...

Old Fans whine about the Combat change while New Fans loved it.
Old Fans missed the Inventory while New Fans loved it being streamlined.
Old Fans that miss the Mako while New Fans don't even bat an eye.

I concide on them ruining Tali and turning her into a sexable Liara 2.0. That's what many Old Fans did want I suppose.

Or they could save themselves headache and just make an all new squad that're all a part of te ME3 story... Especially if they throw out the hated Loyalty system. Those that would suffer are the Casuals over the Hardcores and the Casuals are the majority. So why punish the Majority to appease the Minority that will never be satisfied? And yes it would be punishment because not having a Squaddie does effect the Gameplay and your Gameplay choices for Missions.

Not likeing someone doesn't mean they should have less Squaddies in ME3 that's supposed to be a standalone experience.

Yet the character casualties aren't all the same characters in every save and not all of the survive characters are Loyal since it's possible to have them alive yet unloyal. Than there are those that said they would leave as well such as Samara. It's simply a headache if they factor the variables over just retconning things out of making a brand new Squad to meet.

After all, part of the fun is meeting new faces to play with, right? Not to mentionthat ME3 has to be able to standalone on its own. Such as its own new LIs and the such that're expected in these types of games made by Bioware.

people whine and complain about everything on the internet. if ME3 is a perfect masterpiece that somehow manages to make everyones wishes happy, importing and keeping old squadmates, introducing more, but without having too many people. perfectly balancing gameplay and rpg mechanics, having an oscar-worthy script, ect. people would complain that its TOO perfect lol.

people will complain, no matter what.

also dont get me wrong, i want new people too, i'd just like it to be more like half and half, half new people, half returning. (the returning squadmates can be the default suriviors, importing a save where returning people die simply cuts them out and changes the story)

the rest of the ME2 crew can be cameos and if they're dead its no biggy lol.

[AdmiralCheez]

Elite Midget wrote...

Yet we still had...

Some old fans whine about the Combat change while some old fans loved it.
Some old fans missed the Inventory while some old fans loved it being streamlined.
Some old fans miss the Mako while some old fans don't even bat an eye.

Fixed, bro.

I concide on them ruining Tali and turning her into a sexable Liara 2.0. That's what many Old Fans did want I suppose.

Tali was ruined?  Funny, because I thought that most changes made to her character were an improvement.  No longer a walking codex entry = victory!

So yeah, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

Or they could save themselves headache and just make an all new squad that're all a part of te ME3 story... Especially if they throw out the hated Loyalty system. Those that would suffer are the Casuals over the Hardcores and the Casuals are the majority. So why punish the Majority to appease the Minority that will never be satisfied? And yes it would be punishment because not having a Squaddie does effect the Gameplay and your Gameplay choices for Missions.

Not if you can go back and replay ME2, it doesn't.  When I hear I miss out on a reward on something because I goofed up earlier, I go back and fix it.  I assume that any "casual" gamer that cares enough about a certain squadmate will do the same.  In fact, several of those "casual" gamers might not even bother playing ME3, much less importing.

Gameplay balance?  That's what new squadmates are for.

Not likeing someone doesn't mean they should have less Squaddies in ME3 that's supposed to be a standalone experience.

Okay, so since ONE GUY is too stubborn to save a certain character, EVERYONE ELSE should be denied that character?  Talk about catering to the minority...

Yet the character casualties aren't all the same characters in every save and not all of the survive characters are Loyal since it's possible to have them alive yet unloyal. Than there are those that said they would leave as well such as Samara. It's simply a headache if they factor the variables over just retconning things out of making a brand new Squad to meet.

Just because something is difficult does not mean it should not be done (imagine the headache that came with creating balanced gameplay for all six classes).  And even if different teammates are alive or dead in different saves, overall any given squadmate (apart from Kaishley or Samorinth) is much more likely to be alive than dead.

I have a feeling loyalty of old squadmates will be largely ignored in ME3.  Decisions you made during loyalty quests will still factor in (whether or not certain NPCs are alive, what happened with the genohpage data, etc), but all in all that magic red circle probably won't mean much.

However, I can see Samara leaving, which makes me sad, since I really like her.  I won't argue against plot-related reasons so long as they aren't contrived and I still get a worthy cameo, but all twelve of your crew taking off?  It's a little bit on the "WTF?!" side of things.

Seriously, what kind of a gaming experience is hearing "sorry, Shepard, but I have more important things to do" twelve times in a row?  Three was bad enough, but twelve?  Twelve?  Baaaaaad storytelling choice, brah.

After all, part of the fun is meeting new faces to play with, right? Not to mentionthat ME3 has to be able to standalone on its own. Such as its own new LIs and the such that're expected in these types of games made by Bioware.

Did I ever argue against seeing new guys?  No.  I WANT to see new guys.  Look at my signature, man---I'm pulling for a Batarian squadmate (and a FemTurian).

See, here's the thing: you keep assuming that wanting old teammates back is the same as expecting ALL of them back, and that keeping part of the old crew means no new guys.  You silly goose, you.