89 réponses à ce sujet

[Xewaka]

Wulphe wrote...
Well, he's not dead in my play throughs at least. I'm just waiting for him to spring back to life and haunt all the people who did decide to kill him in future DLC. Lol.

Were I to buy DLC, and were that to happen, I'd just stab him again. I hold the murfer knife, after all.

[Makeshift Riot]

Wulphe wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

Wulphe wrote...

Yeah, I know the "soul" of Justice is immortal, but this story seems to suggest Anders' body is kinda immortal now too.

Is anyone else freaking out over this thought as much as I am? I feel like I have to rethink his character. In the end when he waits for you to kill him, or not, is he silently snickering? XD

Not that I did kill him, but man... what a thought.

I wouldn't imagine Anders knows. If his cause is done, he probably thinks he'll die: either because Justice will leave him and let him die or he'll die and Justice will take over completely.

I don't think anything that was going on was Anders laughing at you. .____. Either that, or he suddenly went from a really ****ty liar to the best (and most evil) one in the whole wide world in a very short time frame.

Anders claims to see what is happening when Justice takes over, so he must know he was *impaled with a sword through the chest* and survived just fine.

Supposedly he and Justice can't be seperated. I think that's probably rubbish though since we can free Conor from being an abomination in DA:O. As a matter of fact you can do it without killing the demon if you simply intimidate her. So maybe he thinks Justice will let him die. Also probably unlikely since Justice stays around if you spare Anders' life and you run away together. His cause isn't exactly done either. The war can still go either way. There's still more fighting left to do.

I didn't mean he's litterally laughing, but maybe testing you? Either way he would go from being a "really ****ty liar" "omgwtf?? You just chewed and spit out my innocence, you demon!", and my soul would be further crushed by Bioware. (I mean that in a good way, soul crushing story = success)

Er. But Justice isn't in the fade. The Desire that held Conner WAS and that is the only reason he could be freed per the First Enchanter. You cannot seperate Justice from Anders unless Justice decides to move on. It may kill him, however.

Anders isn't done.

[KawaiiKatie]

Xewaka wrote...

Were I to buy DLC, and were that to happen, I'd just stab him again. I hold the murfer knife, after all.

You may hold the murder knife, but it's entirely up to Bioware to decide if it sticks or not. If Leliana's appearance as "Sister Nightengale" isn't proof enough that a good, old-fashioned beheading cannot contend with plot-armour, consider that Anders has escaped the murder-knife before, in a little debacle known as Vigil's Keep.

And do you think Witch Hunt would actually let you get away with offing Morrigan, who wears Plot Armour so thick that she actually adorns the ceremonial Plot Coat of Arms? Yeah, not likely.

The murder knife is there so you can get the satisfaction of hurting characters you dislike, but don't be so certain that they'll stay down. If you'll permit me, a quote from David Gaider sums it up well:

"Damned healing potions and their foul magic. Why couldn’t anyone stay dead?"

Modifié par KawaiiKatie, 31 mars 2011 - 11:35 .

[berelinde]

Hmm, I'd forgotten all about that line in the short story. Guess he was just playing 'possum after all.

Not that I killed him. I can't bring myself to side with the templars unless the bug  where he fails to rejoin you later is fixed, let alone kill him. But I know that some people take great delight in killing him.

And why should Anders be more susceptible to the murder knife than anyone else? Oghren comes back, Leliana comes back, Zevran comes back, and Morrigan comes back. I'd say the MK is more than a little ineffectual.

Modifié par berelinde, 31 mars 2011 - 12:12 .

[sheppard7]

There was a way for him to die in Awakening and if you imported that, it doesn't matter. Although, that could kind of change when Justice took over Anders I guess. Instead of that rotting corpse he was using, he'd just jump into Anders instead.

[sheppard7]

berelinde wrote...

Hmm, I'd forgotten all about that line in the short story. Guess he was just playing 'possum after all.

Not that I killed him. I can't bring myself to side with the templars unless the bug  where he fails to rejoin you later is fixed, let alone kill him. But I know that some people take great delight in killing him.

And why should Anders be more susceptible to the murder knife than anyone else? Oghren comes back, Leliana comes back, Zevran comes back, and Morrigan comes back. I'd say the MK is more than a little ineffectual.

OMG! You killed Morrigan? You bastard! lol

I came close myself but then thought "Wait. She's a single mother. I don't even know where the kid is now. For all I know that could be very bad. Plus it's just heartless to leave a kid of a single mother alone like that at that age."

[TheHawkeWhoFlies]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

Were I to buy DLC, and were that to happen, I'd just stab him again. I hold the murfer knife, after all.

You may hold the murder knife, but it's entirely up to Bioware to decide if it sticks or not. If Leliana's appearance as "Sister Nightengale" isn't proof enough that a good, old-fashioned beheading cannot contend with plot-armour, consider that Anders has escaped the murder-knife before, in a little debacle known as Vigil's Keep.

And do you think Witch Hunt would actually let you get away with offing Morrigan, who wears Plot Armour so thick that she actually adorns the ceremonial Plot Coat of Arms? Yeah, not likely.

The murder knife is there so you can get the satisfaction of hurting characters you dislike, but don't be so certain that they'll stay down. If you'll permit me, a quote from David Gaider sums it up well:

"Damned healing potions and their foul magic. Why couldn’t anyone stay dead?"

This. Although, in Morrigan's and Anders' case it actually makes sense that they could survive; you never actually see Morrigan die (she just falls through the mirror), so she could've easily healed herself somehow. And Anders has Justice (and now I want to randomly shout "JUSTICE!" for some reason...).

[Aynslie]

Wulphe wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

Wulphe wrote...

Yeah, I know the "soul" of Justice is immortal, but this story seems to suggest Anders' body is kinda immortal now too.

Is anyone else freaking out over this thought as much as I am? I feel like I have to rethink his character. In the end when he waits for you to kill him, or not, is he silently snickering? XD

Not that I did kill him, but man... what a thought.

I wouldn't imagine Anders knows. If his cause is done, he probably thinks he'll die: either because Justice will leave him and let him die or he'll die and Justice will take over completely.

I don't think anything that was going on was Anders laughing at you. .____. Either that, or he suddenly went from a really ****ty liar to the best (and most evil) one in the whole wide world in a very short time frame.

Anders claims to see what is happening when Justice takes over, so he must know he was *impaled with a sword through the chest* and survived just fine.

Supposedly he and Justice can't be seperated. I think that's probably rubbish though since we can free Conor from being an abomination in DA:O. As a matter of fact you can do it without killing the demon if you simply intimidate her. So maybe he thinks Justice will let him die. Also probably unlikely since Justice stays around if you spare Anders' life and you run away together. His cause isn't exactly done either. The war can still go either way. There's still more fighting left to do.

I didn't mean he's litterally laughing, but maybe testing you? Either way he would go from being a "really ****ty liar" "omgwtf?? You just chewed and spit out my innocence, you demon!", and my soul would be further crushed by Bioware. (I mean that in a good way, soul crushing story = success)

He also has blanks in his memory, suggesting that he doesn't always know what Justice is doing when he takes over.  During Dissent when he almost kills the mage doesn't he say something like "I wouldn't have even known anyone was there if not for you"  It gave me the impression that at least when Anders is in full blown Justice mode he doesn't know what is going on.  But then the description he gives Merrill on what its like to be an abomination suggests that he does "see" what Justice is doing.  So there is a chance that he doesn't know that he is immortal, or perhaps he doesn't understand it, because, he seems to be completely confused in the short story in trying to understand what happened between he and Justice, Justice and the wardens/templars, and how vicious the fight was.....some of the flesh was eaten after all.

[sylvanaerie]

Asperius wrote...

I knew I should cut his head off. Pfft that stabbing is sooo.. unsatisfying.

Actually I wish there was an option to make him tranquil so I could take him back to my mansion and kick him whenver I remember what he did. If he is immortal as you think he will make a good target practice.

This gets my vote.  If there were a DLC for this, I'd buy it
As to immortality...I don't know.  He died at the end of my story but maybe Justice doesn't.  Not really that concerned since the epilogue Varric told didn't say "And Anders came back to wreak Vengeance on Hawke for stabbing him in the back..."  Frankly I'd be tickled if he is immortal.  Then I can stab him and stab him and stab him to my heart's content.

[Wulphe]

Aynslie wrote...

Wulphe wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

Wulphe wrote...

Yeah, I know the "soul" of Justice is immortal, but this story seems to suggest Anders' body is kinda immortal now too.

Is anyone else freaking out over this thought as much as I am? I feel like I have to rethink his character. In the end when he waits for you to kill him, or not, is he silently snickering? XD

Not that I did kill him, but man... what a thought.

I wouldn't imagine Anders knows. If his cause is done, he probably thinks he'll die: either because Justice will leave him and let him die or he'll die and Justice will take over completely.

I don't think anything that was going on was Anders laughing at you. .____. Either that, or he suddenly went from a really ****ty liar to the best (and most evil) one in the whole wide world in a very short time frame.

Anders claims to see what is happening when Justice takes over, so he must know he was *impaled with a sword through the chest* and survived just fine.

Supposedly he and Justice can't be seperated. I think that's probably rubbish though since we can free Conor from being an abomination in DA:O. As a matter of fact you can do it without killing the demon if you simply intimidate her. So maybe he thinks Justice will let him die. Also probably unlikely since Justice stays around if you spare Anders' life and you run away together. His cause isn't exactly done either. The war can still go either way. There's still more fighting left to do.

I didn't mean he's litterally laughing, but maybe testing you? Either way he would go from being a "really ****ty liar" "omgwtf?? You just chewed and spit out my innocence, you demon!", and my soul would be further crushed by Bioware. (I mean that in a good way, soul crushing story = success)

He also has blanks in his memory, suggesting that he doesn't always know what Justice is doing when he takes over.  During Dissent when he almost kills the mage doesn't he say something like "I wouldn't have even known anyone was there if not for you"  It gave me the impression that at least when Anders is in full blown Justice mode he doesn't know what is going on.  But then the description he gives Merrill on what its like to be an abomination suggests that he does "see" what Justice is doing.  So there is a chance that he doesn't know that he is immortal, or perhaps he doesn't understand it, because, he seems to be completely confused in the short story in trying to understand what happened between he and Justice, Justice and the wardens/templars, and how vicious the fight was.....some of the flesh was eaten after all.

Yeah, but it doesn't say Justice pulled the sword out before Anders takes control again (Am I the only one who hears Harbinger's - ME2 - voice when Justice pops out?). So Anders comes back, and... doesn't notice the freakin sword jammed through his chest? Even if he doesn't remember how it got there, he probably notices that it's there after the fact.

Lol... I also was slightly freaked out by the whole Justice drinking templar blood part. IMO he's officially more of a badass than Oghren now. Whether that's a good thing... I'm leaning towards no.

Modifié par Wulphe, 31 mars 2011 - 09:11 .

[Oswin]

I've been wondering just how dead Anders will be if you killed him. Especially after having to fight alongside the last rotting corpse Justice possessed. I chose to spare him but for those who killed him, aw he's gonna be maaaad when he wakes up.
I'd kill him just to have a game of mad zombie Anders hunting you down.
Anders..he's on the first step, Anders...he's on the second step, Anders...he's on the third step....

[Lord Gremlin]

Well, abominations are hard to kill. He won't die of a stab or two, that much is obvious.

[frustratemyself]

Abominations do however seem to be vulnerable to giant spiders.

[Inzhuna]

This has been bugging me for a while, too.

[tallon1982]

I don't think he's immortal per say. I think that when Justice takes control of the body he's able to thin the veil thus bringing part of the Fade to us hence breaking the tranquilness of Karl when you go to 'save' him. I don't know if what I said makes any sense.

[Wulphe]

tallon1982 wrote...

I don't think he's immortal per say. I think that when Justice takes control of the body he's able to thin the veil thus bringing part of the Fade to us hence breaking the tranquilness of Karl when you go to 'save' him. I don't know if what I said makes any sense.

I've considered the possibility that the claim "I am not of mortal men" is simply Justice's voice, since the spirit is immortal, but that still doesn't change the fact that Anders' body is run through with a sword and he survives and isn't a half-rotten corpse when we see him in DA2.

Before I found this story, I'd already assumed Justice wouldn't die and when you kill Anders there's a good chance Justice would simply go back to inhabiting a deteriorating body. But now I'm starting to wonder whether Justice and Anders' merged "soul" is also immortal, and since Anders is a healer he's able to keep his body alive when his "soul" does not die.

More evidence Justice cannot simply leave Anders to die: Justice was stuck in the mortal world when he was sent to Kristoff's body. He didn't want to be stuck at first, he wanted to go back to the Fade. If he could, he simply would have done that. It seems he'd at least need another host body if he were to leave Anders, and I'm guessing that Anders would go with him.

Oh no.. scary thought! Justice goes on a "soul collecting" spree throughout Thedas to unify all people under the cause of justice, and he obsorbs so many people he that becomes godlike, and then goes off to find Flemeth and they create a new race of super-mage-spirit-god babies, who all have the same voice as the Harbinger!

Modifié par Wulphe, 01 avril 2011 - 02:37 .

[Raiil]

I consider it this way:

Justice and Anders aren't entirely the same person. Anders can tamp Justice down in most circumstances, and occasionally Justice can burst out whether Anders wants it or not.

Original Anders, snark aside, was more of a merciful figure. He wants to save Amaranthine, etc. He can almost be talked out of his decisions in a rivalmance. Anders knows that blowing up the Chantry will most likely end in his death, and the human part of him believes that's the right thing to do. So there would be compromise: he does what Justice is really pushing for, and Justice allows him to let go, as it were, and give justice and closure to the dead.


My take on it, anyways.

[Xewaka]

TheHawkeWhoFlies wrote...

KawaiiKatie wrote...

Xewaka wrote...
Were I to buy DLC, and were that to happen, I'd just stab him again. I hold the murfer knife, after all.

You may hold the murder knife, but it's entirely up to Bioware to decide if it sticks or not. If Leliana's appearance as "Sister Nightengale" isn't proof enough that a good, old-fashioned beheading cannot contend with plot-armour, consider that Anders has escaped the murder-knife before, in a little debacle known as Vigil's Keep.
And do you think Witch Hunt would actually let you get away with offing Morrigan, who wears Plot Armour so thick that she actually adorns the ceremonial Plot Coat of Arms? Yeah, not likely.
The murder knife is there so you can get the satisfaction of hurting characters you dislike, but don't be so certain that they'll stay down. If you'll permit me, a quote from David Gaider sums it up well:
"Damned healing potions and their foul magic. Why couldn’t anyone stay dead?"

This. Although, in Morrigan's and Anders' case it actually makes sense that they could survive; you never actually see Morrigan die (she just falls through the mirror), so she could've easily healed herself somehow. And Anders has Justice (and now I want to randomly shout "JUSTICE!" for some reason...).

Meh. I'd just stab them more throroughly. At least then it'll take them more time to get up and I could get rid of them longer.
Also, who would want to behead Leliana? She's so lovely!

[berelinde]

Valentia X wrote...

I consider it this way:

Justice and Anders aren't entirely the same person. Anders can tamp Justice down in most circumstances, and occasionally Justice can burst out whether Anders wants it or not.

Original Anders, snark aside, was more of a merciful figure. He wants to save Amaranthine, etc. He can almost be talked out of his decisions in a rivalmance. Anders knows that blowing up the Chantry will most likely end in his death, and the human part of him believes that's the right thing to do. So there would be compromise: he does what Justice is really pushing for, and Justice allows him to let go, as it were, and give justice and closure to the dead.


My take on it, anyways.

Except that Justice does not understand compromise. Anders tells you that himself, and he would know. Justice cannot be bargained with. It's well and good to make a grand gesture, claim that death is the only fair atonement, and hope it appeases Justice, but Justice knows that the battle is not over. Taking the first step may be enough for Anders, but Justice will want to see it through to the end, and that means dragging Anders' body along for the ride. 

[Wulphe]

berelinde wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

I consider it this way:

Justice and Anders aren't entirely the same person. Anders can tamp Justice down in most circumstances, and occasionally Justice can burst out whether Anders wants it or not.

Original Anders, snark aside, was more of a merciful figure. He wants to save Amaranthine, etc. He can almost be talked out of his decisions in a rivalmance. Anders knows that blowing up the Chantry will most likely end in his death, and the human part of him believes that's the right thing to do. So there would be compromise: he does what Justice is really pushing for, and Justice allows him to let go, as it were, and give justice and closure to the dead.


My take on it, anyways.

Except that Justice does not understand compromise. Anders tells you that himself, and he would know. Justice cannot be bargained with. It's well and good to make a grand gesture, claim that death is the only fair atonement, and hope it appeases Justice, but Justice knows that the battle is not over. Taking the first step may be enough for Anders, but Justice will want to see it through to the end, and that means dragging Anders' body along for the ride. 

That! So creepy.

Not only do I miss the old Anders, I miss the old Justice! Sure, he was occassionally a huge sitck in the mud, but he was much nicer back then. Everyone hates Justice so much now and they just want him to disappear. I want him to go back to the way he was. After all, he was my friend too. 

I haz an idea! We shall find Justice's lyrium ring and give it back to him. Maybe that will calm him down a bit? 

[wicked_being]

I killed Anders but he stuck with me in the end (as Varric narrated). That's just creepy...FemHawke having a crusty zombie abomination boyfriend

[Wulphe]

wicked_being wrote...

I killed Anders but he stuck with me in the end (as Varric narrated). That's just creepy...FemHawke having a crusty zombie abomination boyfriend

Lmao! Omg... that is priceless. It would be funny if we assume that's a bug and later on the dev team's all like "Working as intended".

[Raiil]

berelinde wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

I consider it this way:

Justice and Anders aren't entirely the same person. Anders can tamp Justice down in most circumstances, and occasionally Justice can burst out whether Anders wants it or not.

Original Anders, snark aside, was more of a merciful figure. He wants to save Amaranthine, etc. He can almost be talked out of his decisions in a rivalmance. Anders knows that blowing up the Chantry will most likely end in his death, and the human part of him believes that's the right thing to do. So there would be compromise: he does what Justice is really pushing for, and Justice allows him to let go, as it were, and give justice and closure to the dead.


My take on it, anyways.

Except that Justice does not understand compromise. Anders tells you that himself, and he would know. Justice cannot be bargained with. It's well and good to make a grand gesture, claim that death is the only fair atonement, and hope it appeases Justice, but Justice knows that the battle is not over. Taking the first step may be enough for Anders, but Justice will want to see it through to the end, and that means dragging Anders' body along for the ride. 

But Justice also doesn't retain total control over Anders's body, and there appear to be circumstances where Anders wins over Justice- Anders can still maintain a romantic and sexual relationship despite Justice's feelings on the matter, you can side with templars throughout the entire story and Justice can't force Anders to rise up against Hawke and strike them down, either, at least possibly until the very end. Anders has some force of will.


I'm not saying Justice will hold his end of the bargain, either, since Anders could be wearing some thick plot armour for DA3, but I'm not saying he wouldn't, either. Janders got the war; it could, concievably, the most that Anders is willing to do knowing that he's most likely going to be killed shortly afterwards. That Hawke spares him (in certain circumstances) comes as a total surprise. 


There's also nothing to say that Justice can't recognise the propaganda value of a martyred mage, either.

[ashyraine]

I was going to kill him in my rogue play-through last night but then I thought.. what if by killing Anders I'm just giving Vengeance full control of the meat suit? So I let him live.
And I'm not sure if immortal would be more correct than say.. undead. Or animated corpse

Edit: And I guess the end game doesn't happen on a Tuesday because a ritual dismemberment would totally solve the whole problem

Modifié par ashyraine, 01 avril 2011 - 05:42 .

[Sbri]

wicked_being wrote...

I killed Anders but he stuck with me in the end (as Varric narrated). That's just creepy...FemHawke having a crusty zombie abomination boyfriend

Yeah this happened to me too. I was like, "No one knows where she is but Anders? My Hawke killed Anders,even though they were lovers.  Is he undead something." As of now I am going to assume this is a glich, but it does have some interesting implications.