89 réponses à ce sujet

[Venefica]

looks like some ppl may end up regretting killing him, or perhaps revel in the knowledge that a possibly ticked off psychotic mage might be hunting them down soon

[David Gaider]

Wulphe wrote...
So.. a sword through the chest compared to a
dagger in the back. If Anders survives this, does that mean if you kill
him in during The Last Straw, he survives that too? Is he just playing
dead? Or is he not immortal?

I'd *really* love a dev post here.

No, he's quite dead. We could have gone to more elaborate lengths to show you... ensuring... that he was dead, but I think it got the point across.

I mean, sure, I guess if we wanted to we could come up with some elaborate explanation as to how he survived anyhow... but that's true with anyone. In this case, particularly since Anders was fully willing to die, I don't think having him live after all that would be very cool.

[ThatDancingTurian]

David Gaider wrote...

No, he's quite dead. We could have gone to more elaborate lengths to show you... ensuring... that he was dead, but I think it got the point across.

I mean, sure, I guess if we wanted to we could come up with some elaborate explanation as to how he survived anyhow... but that's true with anyone. In this case, particularly since Anders was fully willing to die, I don't think having him live after all that would be very cool.

Thank you for that.

When the option to kill him finally came along I was already ready for the retcon, particularly because of his LI status. I wasn't very happy with the overall execution (no pun intended) of Anders' character in DA2, but I'm glad at least that choice means something.

[Kawamura]

David Gaider wrote...

Wulphe wrote...
So.. a sword through the chest compared to a
dagger in the back. If Anders survives this, does that mean if you kill
him in during The Last Straw, he survives that too? Is he just playing
dead? Or is he not immortal?

I'd *really* love a dev post here.

No, he's quite dead. We could have gone to more elaborate lengths to show you... ensuring... that he was dead, but I think it got the point across.

I mean, sure, I guess if we wanted to we could come up with some elaborate explanation as to how he survived anyhow... but that's true with anyone. In this case, particularly since Anders was fully willing to die, I don't think having him live after all that would be very cool.

What? Having characters live far after they want to is the point of tragic characters life playing Bioware games everything.

[Camenae]

I wish there was confirmation that Justice is just as dead. Actually no, I wish IT is alive so that I can go kill it in the Fade...in the mortal realm...anywhere.

[David Gaider]

Kawamura wrote...
What? Having characters live far after they want to is the point of tragic characters life playing Bioware games everything.

Then don't kill him. He'll still be alive, even though he wanted to die. Problem solved.

[Kawamura]

Camenae wrote...

I wish there was confirmation that Justice is just as dead. Actually no, I wish IT is alive so that I can go kill it in the Fade...in the mortal realm...anywhere.

Justice is dead. That's why Putin is just so damned sexy.

In a just world, that wouldn't happen.

(Anders mentions that Justice would outlive everyone. He is a spirit, after all. Why you'd want to kill him, I dunno. The poor... thing... is pushed into a world that doesnt' at all make sense to him, and through a person that's very angry/passionate/not all there himself. How else he was supposed to react, I dunno.)

[Kawamura]

David Gaider wrote...

Kawamura wrote...
What? Having characters live far after they want to is the point of tragic characters life playing Bioware games everything.

Then don't kill him. He'll still be alive, even though he wanted to die. Problem solved.

That is an amazingly elegant solution. I should try that.

[Camenae]

Poor thing indeed. He wanted to stay in the mortal realm so badly, he did the one thing, which he told everyone in Awakening as loudly as he could, that he would never do--possess a living host. Then he says he was trapped outside the Fade. Waaaah I can't go back. Well he went back there just fine when you took Anders in the Fade for Night Terrors. Why doesn't he just stay there?

[Kawamura]

Camenae wrote...

Poor thing indeed. He wanted to stay in the mortal realm so badly, he did the one thing, which he told everyone in Awakening as loudly as he could, that he would never do--possess a living host. Then he says he was trapped outside the Fade. Waaaah I can't go back. Well he went back there just fine when you took Anders in the Fade for Night Terrors. Why doesn't he just stay there?

Have you ever done something extremeley stupid for something you've wanted? Even gone against your own previous promises never to do that stupid thing? Or, even better, lied to yourself and told you you weren't actually going against your previous promise?

I dunno that he can stay there, yeah? I mean, when he goes to the Fade, he keeps Anders' form instead of returning to that Templar-y spirit form thingy. I don't imagine that was an oversight.

Anders and Justice make me feel... sad. Road to hell, good intentions, that sort of thing.

[Camenae]

Yeah I'm not saying it's all Justice's fault. Anders was deluded too when he thought it was a good idea to take Justice into himself.

But I don't think the two are in the same relative position of power. In contracts, we resolve ambiguities in contractual language against the party with more bargaining power, i.e. bank was the drafter of the contract, bank has a devoted set of in-house lawyers, the average Joe doesn't, so if there is an ambiguity, we resolve it against the bank who actually wrote the contract. Anyway, the point of that is, Anders was how old? In his 20s or 30s. But who knows how many centuries Justice had been wandering about in the Fade before he met Anders. He can't claim the same level of ignorance that Anders can.

Let me give an example. When my little sister was real young, my parents started giving her allowance to teach her to save up. One time a family friend was teasing her and asked her to trade a $100 bill for a nickel. My little sister didn't know how to read words or numbers back then, so she saw how pretty and shiny the coin was, and she agreed to trade it for what she thought was a piece of paper. Do you think that was an actual informed decision that we should hold against her and blame her for being stupid?

[Kawamura]

Wasn't Justice previously not all that interested in mortals before?

I wasn't blaming either of them. Like I said, I think it's sad. I'm not angry at either, I just feel sorry for them. And I certainly don't want to kill either. Though, I wonder if Justice will eventually overwhelm Anders. Or if they've already overwhelmed each other.

[dantares83]

David Gaider wrote...

Wulphe wrote...
So.. a sword through the chest compared to a
dagger in the back. If Anders survives this, does that mean if you kill
him in during The Last Straw, he survives that too? Is he just playing
dead? Or is he not immortal?

I'd *really* love a dev post here.

No, he's quite dead. We could have gone to more elaborate lengths to show you... ensuring... that he was dead, but I think it got the point across.

I mean, sure, I guess if we wanted to we could come up with some elaborate explanation as to how he survived anyhow... but that's true with anyone. In this case, particularly since Anders was fully willing to die, I don't think having him live after all that would be very cool.

so the devs actually meant for him to die? then will it any more plot holes for the next game if we kept him alive? will he just suddenly run off and commit sucide for the next game?

[The Cannibal Factory]

David Gaider wrote...
No, he's quite dead. We could have gone to more elaborate lengths to show you... ensuring... that he was dead, but I think it got the point across.

I mean, sure, I guess if we wanted to we could come up with some elaborate explanation as to how he survived anyhow... but that's true with anyone. In this case, particularly since Anders was fully willing to die, I don't think having him live after all that would be very cool.

*sadface*

I'm still pretending he survives to see another angsty day. His predicament is faaaar too unique and interesting to end there (I'm calling Varric out on his "martyr ending"... so clichéd my dear dwarf) - vive la revolution!

[LadyJaneGrey]

David Gaider wrote...
No, he's quite dead.

That's a relief.  Anders seemed so miserable and unstable that my Hawke thought it was safest and kindest (for both Anders and Thedas) to shank the guy.

[The Cannibal Factory]

LadyJaneGrey wrote...

David Gaider wrote...
No, he's quite dead.

That's a relief.  Anders seemed so miserable and unstable that my Hawke thought it was safest and kindest (for both Anders and Thedas) to shank the guy.

So long as it doesn't mean Justice gets to take full control of the body and go on a big old Templar killing spree

Anders is miserable, true, but happy people are boring. Let the super-angst continue, I say.

[berelinde]

David Gaider wrote...

Kawamura wrote...
What? Having characters live far after they want to is the point of tragic characters life playing Bioware games everything.

Then don't kill him. He'll still be alive, even though he wanted to die. Problem solved.

The way this is phrased depresses me. I wasn't optimistic enough to be looking forward to an expansion or DLC that featured Anders. No, as much as I would love it, and as quickly as I would snap it up the moment it was released, it looks like the majority of gamers do not share my opinion. So I didn't expect it... but that did not prevent me from hoping for his appearance in a subsequent release, however slim that hope may have been.

So I guess my dream of a post-save quest to separate Anders from Justice is dead.  

[yoshibb]

berelinde wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Kawamura wrote...
What? Having characters live far after they want to is the point of tragic characters life playing Bioware games everything.

Then don't kill him. He'll still be alive, even though he wanted to die. Problem solved.

The way this is phrased depresses me. I wasn't optimistic enough to be looking forward to an expansion or DLC that featured Anders. No, as much as I would love it, and as quickly as I would snap it up the moment it was released, it looks like the majority of gamers do not share my opinion. So I didn't expect it... but that did not prevent me from hoping for his appearance in a subsequent release, however slim that hope may have been.

So I guess my dream of a post-save quest to separate Anders from Justice is dead.  

This is what drives me crazy. You always stick with your love interests as told by Varric, but how are they going to deal with that in the future if some gamers killed them off. I want to be with Fenris 

Sometimes choices annoy me because the minute my favorite character can be killed, I know they'll be reduced to a cameo which just doesn't make sense in the context of my game.

[Caja]

Lady Vengeance wrote...

LadyJaneGrey wrote...

David Gaider wrote...
No, he's quite dead.

That's a relief.  Anders seemed so miserable and unstable that my Hawke thought it was safest and kindest (for both Anders and Thedas) to shank the guy.

So long as it doesn't mean Justice gets to take full control of the body and go on a big old Templar killing spree

I was wondering about this. If Anders is really dead and his spirit is gone, wouldn't Justice still be living in Ander's dead body the same way he inherited Kristoff's body in Awakening? Or can he choose to leave Ander's body behind now, since they are not "merged" together anymore?

[Shacary]

O thank god, Im glad he s truly dead, I really got that he [ ANders} wanted to die at the end. I didnt like that we had to stab him in tha back, I mean even a throat slit would have been nice rthan a proverbial back stab, but like someone said, im glad the choice mattered, and I felt like Anders needed to die/was ready to.

[ReallyRue]

Caja wrote...

Lady Vengeance wrote...

LadyJaneGrey wrote...

David Gaider wrote...
No, he's quite dead.

That's a relief.  Anders seemed so miserable and unstable that my Hawke thought it was safest and kindest (for both Anders and Thedas) to shank the guy.

So long as it doesn't mean Justice gets to take full control of the body and go on a big old Templar killing spree

I was wondering about this. If Anders is really dead and his spirit is gone, wouldn't Justice still be living in Ander's dead body the same way he inherited Kristoff's body in Awakening? Or can he choose to leave Ander's body behind now, since they are not "merged" together anymore?

I'd assume that they're both dead. Anders talked like their personalities/identities/whatever had melded together in a way that there was no longer 'Anders' and 'Justice', more like they are one person. So Justice would not be alive anymore if the Anders half of him died.

[Caja]

Well, Anders wasn't sure about that. He said: "If I pay for that with my life... then I pay. Perhaps Justice would at least be free." I always took it as a hint, that Justice wouldn't die with him.

[The Cannibal Factory]

ReallyRue wrote...

Caja wrote...

Lady Vengeance wrote...

LadyJaneGrey wrote...

David Gaider wrote...
No, he's quite dead.

That's a relief.  Anders seemed so miserable and unstable that my Hawke thought it was safest and kindest (for both Anders and Thedas) to shank the guy.

So long as it doesn't mean Justice gets to take full control of the body and go on a big old Templar killing spree

I was wondering about this. If Anders is really dead and his spirit is gone, wouldn't Justice still be living in Ander's dead body the same way he inherited Kristoff's body in Awakening? Or can he choose to leave Ander's body behind now, since they are not "merged" together anymore?

I'd assume that they're both dead. Anders talked like their personalities/identities/whatever had melded together in a way that there was no longer 'Anders' and 'Justice', more like they are one person. So Justice would not be alive anymore if the Anders half of him died.

I think Anders is totally kidding himself. If they were "one" merged being, Justice wouldn't be able to take control and do things against Anders' will (see mage girl kill/near miss, Act 2).

Sometimes, Anders' line slips too - for example, when he tells Merill about what it's like to be an abomination (trapped inside your body, watching it do things) and muses that that must be what life is like for Justice every day. That's not possible if they are One.

He wants to believe. But it's not true - Justice and Anders are sharing one body, sharing experiences, and sometimes sharing thoughts... but they're not One. And I am absolutely positive, for this reason alone, that if Anders' dies either Justice inherits the body by himself or (my prefered option) he is joined just enough to prevent Anders' soul from being able to leave his body.

Anders' case is a genuine nightmare. He wants to die and can't. Justice will always drag him back and force him onwards. It's epic win for angsty storytelling!

[Northern Sun]

No one can survive the murder-knife, spirit-possessed or otherwise.

[LadyJaneGrey]

Northern Sun wrote...

No one can survive the murder-knife, spirit-possessed or otherwise.

Indeed.  The murder-knife has many magical powers.  Hawke left it in Anders and it magically reappeared in time to stab Orsino.