202 réponses à ce sujet

[Bigdoser]

So I am on my second playthrough I decided to go to sundermount at the start of act 2 I see the dalish and templars aruging about the mage with the dreams problems(forgot his name). I asked what was going on and the dalish said they burned and tortured one of the dalish to get information on him. I was like WUT and then I asked the templar you tortured and killed a dalish for that? The templar showed no remorse over it and just went like so what  he is just an elf? My inner dalish unsleahed it self and went BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD all over em( A40k lover will understand that line). Anyway I was planning to side with the templars for the first time but after that I will never side with them EVER. I understand that mages have to be schooled but its not suprising that we have alot of blood mages running about with people like that templar watching them.

Modifié par Bigdoser, 31 mars 2011 - 08:55 .

[TobiTobsen]

The Kirkwall Templars are pricks. The templar in charge of that searchparty seems to be one of Meredith favourites. No surprise that she resorts to... questionable methods. Alrik would be proud of her.

But hey... the Dalish are not really "shemfriendly" either. Fantastic racism for the win!

[supakillaii]

I agree, Kirkwall templars can be pricks, but not all of them are.

And certainly not all Templars are pricks, for example Alistair

Modifié par supakillaii, 31 mars 2011 - 09:59 .

[Foolsfolly]

Meredith will do anything to capture an apostate mage.

..except, you know, if they happened to kill or appease an Arishok.

....for gameplay reasons, you understand.

[Vuokseniska]

Law and order is needed... All mages revert to bloodmagic. Prime example: Orsino... specially when you side with the mages

[Knightly_BW]

I guess mentioned Apostate is Fenyriel so whole incident is your fault.

What templars did was wrong? In Kirkwall not really, every apostate you turn your face, will try to stab you in your back with blood magic. I think Kirkwall has enough blood mage/demon/abomination populace, no need for extra numbers among dalish. Not the mention that apostate in question can become very powerful abomination who can erase Kirkwall from map of Thedas. Even the keeper thinks making him tranquil is the best solution.

Are Dalish pricks? Pretty much yes, they tend to thank you for rescuing them from their abomination/pride demon ex-keeper by trying to attack you and get yourselves killed in return.

Templars really need to start hunting Dalish keepers, Zathrian and Mareathari are both insane apostates dangerous to both humans and their own clans. At least there are two less clans for them to worry about.

[Tainan7509]

People always has changed when they stay in power for a long time especially like Templars who has power to control circle and all mages for 930 years. Just look at the reality like Libya for example. Using Blood magic is wrong and yet torture mage for information is just wrong as using blood magic on people. Both side want to achieve their goal and they both are corrupted.

[LegendaryBlade]

You don't have to agree with everything they are doing to see that, in the end, the mages are in the wrong. Especially after what Anders does. Go ahead and side with Meredith at the end this time and you'll see that they were actually correct about there being a ****load of bloodmages in the circle. You basicaly cut a path through them. You also find out Cullen has become a find man, and supports your decision to spare the mages who aren't blood mages.

I think if you actually try it, you'll see the Templars aren't so bad.

[MICHELLE7]

Yeah, the abuses of the templars aren't as open as the blood mages...the more I've played the game the more garbage I've seen the templars doing. They abuse mages or anyone else that stands in their way with their religion (the chantry) giving them "divine" right to do so.

Oppress a people long enough and they will resort to desperate measure to gain their freedom...it's called a revolution. None of it would have happened if the Kirkwall Templars hadn't been so restrictive and abusive on the Circle of Magi. And as for blood magic being wrong...that is according to the chantry's interpretation of their own scriptures (read the codex)...it certainly didn't come directly from the Maker (their own religion says he turned his back on them so he hasn't communicated with anyone that blood magic is wrong...he isn't even talking to them). I think the fear about it is based on people's misconceptions about it...you certainly don't have to resort to blood magic to become an abomination...Anders and the templars who became possessed are proof of that.

As for playing on the side of the templars...I did it once and that was the playthrough where I saw the greatest abuses by the Templars...one time was enough for me...never again...pro-mage all the way.

[Talladarr]

I know, I hate most ofd the Kirkwal Templars, and I'm only siding with them so I can get the damned achievement >.<

[Big I]

It's worse than just torturing a dalish hunter, they tortured a DA'LEN hunter. Da'len=child, like that guy Cammen from Origins. The templars are willing to torture innocent elven children.

[Talladarr]

Actually, Len is child, Da'Len is YOUNG child, meaning prepubescent....
Unless it's your Keeper just talkign down to yo, then you just have to be younger than her, but you know what I mean

Modifié par Talladarr, 31 mars 2011 - 12:44 .

[The Baconer]

Some of these Templar apologists seemed to skip over the whole "torturing and burning a Dalish Elf to get information" part. Most ridiculous excuse I just read? "Well, the Dalish are pricks." Ha, and then when somebody says "The Templars are pricks" then it's all "DUDE NOT ALL TEMPLARS ARE TEH SAME MAN"

Stay classy, guys.

[Talladarr]

I'm sorry, but I'm an elf lover. I LOATHE the Templars for this and many of the tortures they submit mages to. I wouldn't be surprised if the female mages were sexually abused in the circle...

[Big I]

Talladarr wrote...

I'm sorry, but I'm an elf lover. I LOATHE the Templars for this and many of the tortures they submit mages to. I wouldn't be surprised if the female mages were sexually abused in the circle...

If you click on Alain in the Gallows in Act 2 he'll say, quote, "Ser Korus said I'd be made tranquil if I told anyone he's been in my room at night."

In Dissent, the Anders Act 2 quest:
Mage Girl: "Don't make me tranquil! I'll do anything!"
Ser Alrik: "Yes, you WILL do anything we want after we make you tranquil."

Sickening.

[Talladarr]

It really is.... The Calenhad circle Templars weren't so bad, but the Kirkwallers.... It just sickens me to side with them for that achievement...

[Arppis]

supakillaii wrote...

I agree, Kirkwall templars can be pricks, but not all of them are.

And certainly not all Templars are pricks, for example Alistair

He's not templar. He never was a proper templar.

[Talladarr]

Yeah, Alistair never became a full Templar, Duncan recruited him before he took his final vows.
"I never ctually became a Templar, Duncan recruited me before I took my final vows."
*Goes on about Templar stuff*
"And the Chantry doesn't usually let it's Templars get away with their secrets. I guess I'm a bit of an exception. Lucky Me."

Modifié par Talladarr, 31 mars 2011 - 01:35 .

[Maria Caliban]

I always have Fendryal go to the Dalish and not once have the Templars shown up.

[highcastle]

Vuokseniska wrote...

Law and order is needed... All mages revert to bloodmagic. Prime example: Orsino... specially when you side with the mages

Hawke doesn't have to. Anders, for everything else he did, never used blood magic. Alain, as far as we see, never used blood magic. Neither does Feynriel. You can't stereotype all mages and forget about the outliers. If you said all mages are capable of blood magic, I would agree with you. And then you start getting into the territory of "Is it right to lock up and attack somebody for the sake of what they might do?"

Hey, I'm having flashes of Minority Report now. 

[Talladarr]

Blood Magic is not in itself inherently evil. Just because you CAN control someone's mind, and summon demons and that's what it's used for for the most part, doesn't mean it is actually evil. Think about it, if Blood Magic was properly controlled, and not used in proximity to where the veil was so thin, they could make Lyrium obsolete.

[BigEvil]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I always have Fendryal go to the Dalish and not once have the Templars shown up.

I'm not certain but I think you have to go to Sundermount after reading the letter Fenryiel sends to the estate but before doing Night Terrors. That's when they showed up on my playthroughs but it could be more random than that.

As for the templars torturing a Dalish elf for information, sure it's wrong and should not be condoned, but Hawke does have to accept some of the blame for sending the boy to the Dalish. I also have to wonder why the Dalish allow children (even if they are training to be hunters) to go around on their own. They should have other adult hunters/mentors with them. I doubt they'd expect Templars to turn up, but a bit of common sense should be in order given that we encounter lots of undead, giant spiders, dragonlings, a varterral, and some darkspawn at Sundermount. One of the Dalish even warns us to be careful walking the paths of Sundermount because of dark and terrible things.

[LegendaryBlade]

Talladarr wrote...

Blood Magic is not in itself inherently evil. Just because you CAN control someone's mind, and summon demons and that's what it's used for for the most part, doesn't mean it is actually evil. Think about it, if Blood Magic was properly controlled, and not used in proximity to where the veil was so thin, they could make Lyrium obsolete.

Blood magic is like a rocket launcher, it may not be inherently evil but people are uncomfortable if you walk down the street with one. Actually, it's far worse than that, because it's a rocket launcher that could go out of the weilder's control at any time if he doesn't know how to control it properly. How many good blood mages have you met throughout the course of the Dragonage series? Merril and Jowan, that's about it.

That said, I went out of my way to support both of those characters and would have liked to see Jowan as a companion.

Modifié par LegendaryBlade, 31 mars 2011 - 01:57 .

[Talladarr]

I think you're missing a fact that was portrayed in DA:O with Camen. In order to become an actual Hunter, not a Hunter-apprentice, you have to hunt ON YOUR OWN. YOU have ot take something down, skin it, and bring back a properly made pelt, while also beingign back the animal, because to killl soemthing that bares you no harm and then not eat/use all of it is waste. The Da'len was likely just out on his/her hunt

[Talladarr]

LegendaryBlade wrote...

Talladarr wrote...

Blood Magic is not in itself inherently evil. Just because you CAN control someone's mind, and summon demons and that's what it's used for for the most part, doesn't mean it is actually evil. Think about it, if Blood Magic was properly controlled, and not used in proximity to where the veil was so thin, they could make Lyrium obsolete.

Blood magic is like a rocket launcher, it may not be inherently evil but people are uncomfortable if you walk down the street with one. Actually, it's far worse than that, because it's a rocket launcher that could go out of the weilder's control at any time if he doesn't know how to control it properly. How many good blood mages have you met throughout the course of the Dragonage series? Merril and Jowan, that's about it.

That said, I went out of my way to support both of those characters and would have liked to see Jowan as a companion.

There's actually a computer mod that allows you to recruit him at Redcliff. But more to the point, that's true. but if the people that DO leanr how to control it should hold a Blood Magic class i nthe circle(if it were to become more like a magic school like it was when it was first established) and teach people how, and how NOT , to use Blood Magic. If people could control it better then ther ewouldn't be a need to make it a forbiden art. The problem is that the damned Chantry has to control everything and treat mages like less-than-human