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[Tainan7509]

Talladarr wrote...

Blood Magic is not in itself inherently evil. Just because you CAN control someone's mind, and summon demons and that's what it's used for for the most part, doesn't mean it is actually evil. Think about it, if Blood Magic was properly controlled, and not used in proximity to where the veil was so thin, they could make Lyrium obsolete.

Like a person was given a gun and it doesn't mean the person carry a gun is evil. Blood magic =  gun therefore mage is not evil.

[Talladarr]

Tainan7509 wrote...

Talladarr wrote...

Blood Magic is not in itself inherently evil. Just because you CAN control someone's mind, and summon demons and that's what it's used for for the most part, doesn't mean it is actually evil. Think about it, if Blood Magic was properly controlled, and not used in proximity to where the veil was so thin, they could make Lyrium obsolete.

Like a person was given a gun and it doesn't mean the person carry a gun is evil. Blood magic =  gun therefore mage is not evil.

The point was made by Bethany very well.
(to Avaline)"You have a sword, why arn't you killing someone with it?"
"That's a good point, but I can put my sword down."

Blood Magic, like ALL magic, is just a tool, it's how the person USES it that makes it good/bad. It's the MAGES that use it for evil that are evil, not the blood Magic itself

[LegendaryBlade]

Talladarr wrote...

LegendaryBlade wrote...

Talladarr wrote...

Blood Magic is not in itself inherently evil. Just because you CAN control someone's mind, and summon demons and that's what it's used for for the most part, doesn't mean it is actually evil. Think about it, if Blood Magic was properly controlled, and not used in proximity to where the veil was so thin, they could make Lyrium obsolete.

Blood magic is like a rocket launcher, it may not be inherently evil but people are uncomfortable if you walk down the street with one. Actually, it's far worse than that, because it's a rocket launcher that could go out of the weilder's control at any time if he doesn't know how to control it properly. How many good blood mages have you met throughout the course of the Dragonage series? Merril and Jowan, that's about it.

That said, I went out of my way to support both of those characters and would have liked to see Jowan as a companion.

There's actually a computer mod that allows you to recruit him at Redcliff. But more to the point, that's true. but if the people that DO leanr how to control it should hold a Blood Magic class i nthe circle(if it were to become more like a magic school like it was when it was first established) and teach people how, and how NOT , to use Blood Magic. If people could control it better then ther ewouldn't be a need to make it a forbiden art. The problem is that the damned Chantry has to control everything and treat mages like less-than-human

You can't blame the chantry for blood mages being bad, that's just absurd. If you read a lot of the codex's you'll find even before the circle and the chantr blood magic was used for a lot of evil, outlawing it was the right thing to do. At very most, only specific mages who have proven they can control it should be allowed to use blood magic, just like spirit healers who let beneficial spirits live in them such as Wynne. Exceptions should be made, but rarely.

[Talladarr]

Well, at the very LEAST there sould be a class about it, if not ON it. I mean, 95% of mages probably don't know much other than it can control your minds, summon demons and that it's forbidden.

[Knightly_BW]

LegendaryBlade wrote...

Talladarr wrote...

LegendaryBlade wrote...

Talladarr wrote...

Blood Magic is not in itself inherently evil. Just because you CAN control someone's mind, and summon demons and that's what it's used for for the most part, doesn't mean it is actually evil. Think about it, if Blood Magic was properly controlled, and not used in proximity to where the veil was so thin, they could make Lyrium obsolete.

Blood magic is like a rocket launcher, it may not be inherently evil but people are uncomfortable if you walk down the street with one. Actually, it's far worse than that, because it's a rocket launcher that could go out of the weilder's control at any time if he doesn't know how to control it properly. How many good blood mages have you met throughout the course of the Dragonage series? Merril and Jowan, that's about it.

That said, I went out of my way to support both of those characters and would have liked to see Jowan as a companion.

There's actually a computer mod that allows you to recruit him at Redcliff. But more to the point, that's true. but if the people that DO leanr how to control it should hold a Blood Magic class i nthe circle(if it were to become more like a magic school like it was when it was first established) and teach people how, and how NOT , to use Blood Magic. If people could control it better then ther ewouldn't be a need to make it a forbiden art. The problem is that the damned Chantry has to control everything and treat mages like less-than-human

You can't blame the chantry for blood mages being bad, that's just absurd. If you read a lot of the codex's you'll find even before the circle and the chantr blood magic was used for a lot of evil, outlawing it was the right thing to do. At very most, only specific mages who have proven they can control it should be allowed to use blood magic, just like spirit healers who let beneficial spirits live in them such as Wynne. Exceptions should be made, but rarely.

Anders also was hosting a benefical spirit.

After playing DA 2 my whole view on mages and templars changed to be honest. Also like Merrill said there ain't any difference between spirits and demons, they aren't good for humans or elves. Demons turns you into an abomination, spirits make you a terrorist.

Sure fact is any mage whose leaving themselves open for demonic influence are open to become abominations. Abominations are bad. Bad as in killing anything on their paths until they stopped mostly by templars.

Templars ain't your Mr. Holy Paladin either. They are lyrium addicts who are destined to become more or less likely threat to humans or simply used by Chantry spent and thrown away elders. You can see Templars as boogey-men for mages but they are more like cops/policemen. Can you say all law enforcement systems are bad because they have corrupt members in them?

[Talladarr]

Asperius wrote...

LegendaryBlade wrote...

Talladarr wrote...

LegendaryBlade wrote...

Talladarr wrote...

Blood Magic is not in itself inherently evil. Just because you CAN control someone's mind, and summon demons and that's what it's used for for the most part, doesn't mean it is actually evil. Think about it, if Blood Magic was properly controlled, and not used in proximity to where the veil was so thin, they could make Lyrium obsolete.

Blood magic is like a rocket launcher, it may not be inherently evil but people are uncomfortable if you walk down the street with one. Actually, it's far worse than that, because it's a rocket launcher that could go out of the weilder's control at any time if he doesn't know how to control it properly. How many good blood mages have you met throughout the course of the Dragonage series? Merril and Jowan, that's about it.

That said, I went out of my way to support both of those characters and would have liked to see Jowan as a companion.

There's actually a computer mod that allows you to recruit him at Redcliff. But more to the point, that's true. but if the people that DO leanr how to control it should hold a Blood Magic class i nthe circle(if it were to become more like a magic school like it was when it was first established) and teach people how, and how NOT , to use Blood Magic. If people could control it better then ther ewouldn't be a need to make it a forbiden art. The problem is that the damned Chantry has to control everything and treat mages like less-than-human

You can't blame the chantry for blood mages being bad, that's just absurd. If you read a lot of the codex's you'll find even before the circle and the chantr blood magic was used for a lot of evil, outlawing it was the right thing to do. At very most, only specific mages who have proven they can control it should be allowed to use blood magic, just like spirit healers who let beneficial spirits live in them such as Wynne. Exceptions should be made, but rarely.

Anders also was hosting a benefical spirit.

After playing DA 2 my whole view on mages and templars changed to be honest. Also like Merrill said there ain't any difference between spirits and demons, they aren't good for humans or elves. Demons turns you into an abomination, spirits make you a terrorist.

Sure fact is any mage whose leaving themselves open for demonic influence are open to become abominations. Abominations are bad. Bad as in killing anything on their paths until they stopped mostly by templars.

Templars ain't your Mr. Holy Paladin either. They are lyrium addicts who are destined to become more or less likely threat to humans or simply used by Chantry spent and thrown away elders. You can see Templars as boogey-men for mages but they are more like cops/policemen. Can you say all law enforcement systems are bad because they have corrupt members in them?

And thankyou for proving my point that it's all the Chantry's fault =3

[LegendaryBlade]

Talladarr wrote...

Asperius wrote...

LegendaryBlade wrote...

Talladarr wrote...

LegendaryBlade wrote...

Talladarr wrote...

Blood Magic is not in itself inherently evil. Just because you CAN control someone's mind, and summon demons and that's what it's used for for the most part, doesn't mean it is actually evil. Think about it, if Blood Magic was properly controlled, and not used in proximity to where the veil was so thin, they could make Lyrium obsolete.

Blood magic is like a rocket launcher, it may not be inherently evil but people are uncomfortable if you walk down the street with one. Actually, it's far worse than that, because it's a rocket launcher that could go out of the weilder's control at any time if he doesn't know how to control it properly. How many good blood mages have you met throughout the course of the Dragonage series? Merril and Jowan, that's about it.

That said, I went out of my way to support both of those characters and would have liked to see Jowan as a companion.

There's actually a computer mod that allows you to recruit him at Redcliff. But more to the point, that's true. but if the people that DO leanr how to control it should hold a Blood Magic class i nthe circle(if it were to become more like a magic school like it was when it was first established) and teach people how, and how NOT , to use Blood Magic. If people could control it better then ther ewouldn't be a need to make it a forbiden art. The problem is that the damned Chantry has to control everything and treat mages like less-than-human

You can't blame the chantry for blood mages being bad, that's just absurd. If you read a lot of the codex's you'll find even before the circle and the chantr blood magic was used for a lot of evil, outlawing it was the right thing to do. At very most, only specific mages who have proven they can control it should be allowed to use blood magic, just like spirit healers who let beneficial spirits live in them such as Wynne. Exceptions should be made, but rarely.

Anders also was hosting a benefical spirit.

After playing DA 2 my whole view on mages and templars changed to be honest. Also like Merrill said there ain't any difference between spirits and demons, they aren't good for humans or elves. Demons turns you into an abomination, spirits make you a terrorist.

Sure fact is any mage whose leaving themselves open for demonic influence are open to become abominations. Abominations are bad. Bad as in killing anything on their paths until they stopped mostly by templars.

Templars ain't your Mr. Holy Paladin either. They are lyrium addicts who are destined to become more or less likely threat to humans or simply used by Chantry spent and thrown away elders. You can see Templars as boogey-men for mages but they are more like cops/policemen. Can you say all law enforcement systems are bad because they have corrupt members in them?

And thankyou for proving my point that it's all the Chantry's fault =3

If that's the conclusion you drew from his post you really are reaching.

[Knightly_BW]

It is fault of person who seek power and control over others by hiding behind a system fueled with other poor/stupid people's loyality/belief/faith/naivity. (whatever you name it, English ain't my native language those are words I can think of system right now).

[Talladarr]

The Chantry makes the Templars do whatever they want because the Chantry controls all lyrium trade with the dwarves, outside of smugglers of course. So I'm not exactly saying that the Chantry is behind al lthe evil mages using Blood magic, but al lthe chantry has to do is say "We'll cut yo uoff Lyrium if you don't tighten things up" and it'll be done. Just saying. (Also please note I've been up for about 23 hours, I can't think straight right now, so if what I say makes no sense, I'm sorry >.<)

[Parrk]

Kirkwall is a filthy place full of disgusting and morally bankrupt people. It amazes me that more people don't seem to think this. There is no real justification for helping the brownshirts torture and kill mages, because when you think about it, there are very few people in kirkwall who wouldn't kill you given the slightest reason.....or a few coins.

I honestly cannot identify this mythical innocent community that templar-lovers think they are somehow protecting by supporting the torture, rape and genetic cleansing of mages who have done nothing wrong.

What imaginary public are you making kirkwall safe for?

There are only a handfull of decent templars, and they are killed as soon as they are identified by the zealots in their ranks.

Blood mages = bad 99% of the time....I get it. Hawke is somehow able to kill scores of blood mages while protecting innocent mages from being raped and tortured. templars are almost universally jaded, yet so few of them have even faced shades, aboms and demons, and would probably mess their pants if they ever did.

Templars are generally not even capable of defeating blood mages because they are weak. It is effectively like creating an agency to cull the growth of mountain lion population, but they are only strong enough to slay the cubs....so they spend all their time tormenting the young of the species.

The templars make the mages turn to evil for a chance at self-preservation.

Imagine if (here in the US),the government revoked the second ammendment and went door to door collecting guns and arresting anyone who did not give them up freely. Would they really have any cause to blame the people for he level of violence that ensued? No

And mages aren't even weapons by nature, but rather people. The only people with reason to fear normal mages are those who would persecute them...the templars.

[Tainan7509]

Talladarr wrote...

The Chantry makes the Templars do whatever they want because the Chantry controls all lyrium trade with the dwarves, outside of smugglers of course. So I'm not exactly saying that the Chantry is behind al lthe evil mages using Blood magic, but al lthe chantry has to do is say "We'll cut yo uoff Lyrium if you don't tighten things up" and it'll be done. Just saying. (Also please note I've been up for about 23 hours, I can't think straight right now, so if what I say makes no sense, I'm sorry >.<)

This makes me wonder why chantry come to power and what was it before. I don't like chantry since DAO tbh. 

[Talladarr]

Thankyou Parrk. I agree. Mages are people but the blighted chantry treats them as less than p[eople becuase they twist the chant to mean waht they want it to mean. "Magic exists to surve man, and not rule over him" Does NOT mean, mages are less than human, it just means that using magic to dominate people is wrong.

And I know Tainan. I've alkways hated the chantry, it reminds me too much of the old christian church, startinf holy wars over people believing something different.

[HTTP 404]

To OP: I like how thats worse than a mage murdering your mother.

o wells.. all templars are the same right? but not mages.

Modifié par HTTP 404, 31 mars 2011 - 03:31 .

[Talladarr]

We never said htat all Templars are the same, I only said that the Kirkwall ones were horrible for the most part. Cullen, who was originally from the Calenhad circle, was a good Templar, one of the few.

[HTTP 404]

Talladarr wrote...

We never said htat all Templars are the same, I only said that the Kirkwall ones were horrible for the most part. Cullen, who was originally from the Calenhad circle, was a good Templar, one of the few.

Im sorry I was poking fun at the OP. 

there's also Thrask and all of his followers and that templar boy.

Modifié par HTTP 404, 31 mars 2011 - 03:32 .

[Talladarr]

Oh. If we take all the mages and al lthe Templars on the whole, the Templars are worse. I do not doubt for a second there's a lot of sexual abuse happening in that circle. I never let Bethany live there when I'm not a mage, she's either a Warden or she dies... I know I'd rather be dead than raped...
[[EDIT]]
I did say MOST. all the good templars with the exception of Cullen get killed by either extremeists or Blood Mages.

Modifié par Talladarr, 31 mars 2011 - 03:34 .

[Dark-sider77]

Talladarr wrote...

We never said htat all Templars are the same, I only said that the Kirkwall ones were horrible for the most part. Cullen, who was originally from the Calenhad circle, was a good Templar, one of the few.

Ya, and i always thought that Cullen was transferred to Kirkwall because Gregior thought the boy had snapped after the Broken Circle questline and couldn't be trusted to responsibly guard the mages. I think that Kirkwall had become the place where the Templar Order sent all of its worst troublemaking zelots. Especially when you consider that Cullen was a moderate in Kirkwall but an extremist amongst the Fereldan circle.

[Talladarr]

It's sad but true. And a distinct possibility..

[Parrk]

Actually, yes. Nearly all templars are the same. Mages are born into all types of political and socio-economic classes and all races, and as said previously, they are people with magical power, not "mages".

Templars are self-nominated. It is a volunteer organization. Certainly there exist "good" templars, but those are most likely templars as a means of escaping poverty and hunger.

It is safe to assume that, having been around so long, the order draws a particular type of power-hungry mage haters.

If you wanted to protect people, the guard is a better option, or the king's army.

The religious situation in parts of  thedas can be described as if the Westboro Baptist church controlled the country with a shadow government and liberal use of unnecessary force. The templars are people who serve one purpose...to solve the homosexuality "problem"....which isn't really a problem.

That is my understanding of the psychology of templars at least. I'm sure others would beg to differ.

Modifié par Parrk, 31 mars 2011 - 03:47 .

[Pileyourbodies]

The dalish are no better than the templars for example the ones that murder the ex werewolves. different clan but dalish nontheless.

[Maleficent]

In that particular encounter I backed off on the fence because I wanted to play the templars to to end before turning on them.Not all of them are that bad Thrask is kinda ok and Cullen is good.As for the blood mages well its kinda hard to keep control when you make a pact with a demon and there is so much restriction from what I believe is an organisation ie the chantry that has something big to hide.Ever notice how her grace is very serene or why the the templars are the strong arm of the chantry?watch for this in the next game Orlais will fall under the revealment that not all is as it seems.If you wanted to hide from persecution of the enemy the best way apart from destroying them is to become them.Not all is ''Holy'' as Andraste's word would have it.And is this something that Flemeth knows and why she allowed Morrigan to breed,why the warden and Hawke are missing and the significance of the coming of the end of the Dragon Age.Anyway pure theory and rant there,I know what you mean though about feeling that way about the templars.

[Talladarr]

Parrk wrote...

Actually, yes. Nearly all templars are the same. Mages are born into all types of political and socio-economic classes and all races, and as said previously, they are people with magical power, not "mages".

Templars are self-nominated. It is a volunteer organization. Certainly there exist "good" templars, but those are most likely templars as a means of escaping poverty and hunger.

It is safe to assume that, having been around so long, the order draws a particular type of power-hungry mage haters.

If you wanted to protect people, the guard is a better option, or the king's army.

The religious situation in thedas can be described as if the Westboro Baptist church controlled the country with a shadow government and liberal use of unnecessary force. The templars are people who serve one purpose...to solve the homosexuality "problem"....which isn't really a problem.

That is my understanding of the psychology of templars at least. I'm sure others would beg to differ.

I agree.

[Maleficent]

Oh one more thing about the chantry,the history and lore tells us that Andraste's army of people defeated the Imperium but it may be hard to believe that they defeated them without Magic or inside help.

[IanPolaris]

If you're calling Cullen from DAO a "good" templar (the same tempar that says that you can not treat mages like human beings), that tells you just how vile most Kirkwall Templars are.

-Polaris

[Pileyourbodies]

Talladarr wrote...

Parrk wrote...

Actually, yes. Nearly all templars are the same. Mages are born into all types of political and socio-economic classes and all races, and as said previously, they are people with magical power, not "mages".

Templars are self-nominated. It is a volunteer organization. Certainly there exist "good" templars, but those are most likely templars as a means of escaping poverty and hunger.


To Ian you can't treat them like humans, you must treat them like they're potential demons.
It is safe to assume that, having been around so long, the order draws a particular type of power-hungry mage haters.

If you wanted to protect people, the guard is a better option, or the king's army.

The religious situation in thedas can be described as if the Westboro Baptist church controlled the country with a shadow government and liberal use of unnecessary force. The templars are people who serve one purpose...to solve the homosexuality "problem"....which isn't really a problem.

That is my understanding of the psychology of templars at least. I'm sure others would beg to differ.

I agree.

Oiy i've got a problem with this, Mages commonly turn into demons and kill people. Homosexuals don't do this unless you want to claim this is allegory to aids but then you're just grasping.

Modifié par Pileyourbodies, 31 mars 2011 - 03:49 .