202 réponses à ce sujet

[Ezohiguma]

LadyVaJedi wrote...

Why do you dislike elves so much for? I take it then that you didn't like them in LOTR series and I am guessing your not fond of Spock either even though he is a Vulcan.

Spock is no elf. Vulcans are definitely not elves, not even remotely. In fact, I absolutely love the Romulans and their empire, but they're not elves. All they have is pointy ears. They don't display elf-like behavior. Instead they kick butt (or used to before they were turned into a joke by modern Trek, just like so many other cool races.)

In LOTR elves were... Okay, think back at the beginning of the books (or even the movies). Last Alliance. They get the ring. Isildur stands in Mount Doom. Elrond tells him to throw it into the fire. Isildur says "No" and that's it. Elrond just stands there and pouts. It's the elves fault that Sauron returned. Elrond could have tossed Isildur into the fire with the ring. Then invent a lie about how the king slipped and fell or something. He's old enough to come up with something really good. But nooooo... Instead he just stands there and pouts. And then, when Sauron returns, what do the elves? They... bravely run away. Useless buggers.

And don't make me start on Warhammer 40K and the space elves (aka eldar.) Bloody eldar. It's their fault that Slaanesh exists! Slaanesh was born from the Warp-reflection of the decadence and hedonism of the eldar race at the height of their own interstellar empire. The birth cry of Slaanesh created an immense Warp rift, the so called Eye of Terror (and the human planet Cadia sits right on the doorstep), and killed most eldar. And thanks to them the 40k universe now has 4 Chaos gods.

Modifié par Ezohiguma, 22 juillet 2011 - 07:42 .

[Sepewrath]

lol he did just stand there.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The dalish elves are enemies of humanity. At least in a very general sense, all human nations except maybe Rivian are highly prejudiced against elves and essentially have racist official policies towards them. But they tend to despite the dalish even worse than the city elves. It don't really think it's a Chantry thing that was at the root of the templars' disgust for the dalish. Elves have been enemies of humans for thousands of years before there was a Chantry.

[dragonflight288]

Elves were enslaved by Tevinter long before Andraste was born, and so they were likely disregarded as less than human by the time she came along. Add in the fact that Dalish elves have very long lifespans, whereas the city elves don't, so they see humans as a poison that limits their lifespan and maybe sometime in the future, they may regain the fabled immortality of the elves long gone.

In Origins, when the Warden goes to the Dalish to call them on the treaty, when you ask Lanaya and the story teller both (forgot his name), you get the story of how the elves used to be immortals, but after they were enslaved, they lost that immortality. They talk about how the Dalish live longer lives than humans and city elves, so the Dalish isolate themselves in a hope to regain their immortality. And their lifespans are getting longer. But they are also losing their magic, maybe getting dangerously close to inbreeding, losing their culture, and are constantly looking down on their own kind in the city even as the rest of Thedas looks down on them.

Merrill put it very well when talking to Hawke while romancing her. "If you were Dalish, we'd have a kingdom by now....and all of Thedas would be trying to destroy us."

And yes, I absolutely hate the templars who go and torture a young dalish hunter who had done nothing related to Fenryiel.

[Agamo45]

I would have tortured the elf too. It's a useful technique for getting information when the subject stands in the way of justice.

[CrimsonZephyr]

Agamo45 wrote...

I would have tortured the elf too. It's a useful technique for getting information when the subject stands in the way of justice.

Or it gets you useless information, or no information at all.

[Rifneno]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...

I would have tortured the elf too. It's a useful technique for getting information when the subject stands in the way of justice.

Or it gets you useless information, or no information at all.

Careful.  If you keep feeding the trolls they never go away.  You'll find them rooting through your garbage every week to boot.

[KotorEffect3]

Agamo45 wrote...

I would have tortured the elf too. It's a useful technique for getting information when the subject stands in the way of justice.

I hope you are not a cop IRL but that wouldn't suprise me with the attitude some of them have.  Anyway I always side with the Dalish in that situation.  In fact one time after I had talked both the templars and Dalish down I decided to reload my save so I could kill the templars (I was playing as a mage in that playthrough)

[Agamo45]

I could never be a cop, far too much red tape. I don't know how those guys deal with it. Anyways, torture has been used for thousands of years and will be used for thousands more years. It works.

[KotorEffect3]

Agamo45 wrote...

I could never be a cop, far too much red tape. I don't know how those guys deal with it. Anyways, torture has been used for thousands of years and will be used for thousands more years. It works.

I am pretty sure you would change your tune if you were on the receiving end.

[Agamo45]

I'm not a criminal or a terrorist. Those bastards should be afraid.

[KotorEffect3]

Agamo45 wrote...

I'm not a criminal or a terrorist. Those bastards should be afraid.

Not one for due process are you?

[Agamo45]

I am for swift and brutal justice. Our current process only serves the scum and not the citizens.

[KotorEffect3]

And what happens when the police go to far?

[Agamo45]

What exactly is too far?

[Ayanko]

Agamo45 wrote...

What exactly is too far?

Probably when they start burning them to death.

[Shadow Fox]

Parrk wrote...

Vanaer wrote...

Talladarr wrote...

LegendaryBlade wrote...

Talladarr wrote...

Blood Magic is not in itself inherently evil. Just because you CAN control someone's mind, and summon demons and that's what it's used for for the most part, doesn't mean it is actually evil. Think about it, if Blood Magic was properly controlled, and not used in proximity to where the veil was so thin, they could make Lyrium obsolete.

Blood magic is like a rocket launcher, it may not be inherently evil but people are uncomfortable if you walk down the street with one. Actually, it's far worse than that, because it's a rocket launcher that could go out of the weilder's control at any time if he doesn't know how to control it properly. How many good blood mages have you met throughout the course of the Dragonage series? Merril and Jowan, that's about it.

That said, I went out of my way to support both of those characters and would have liked to see Jowan as a companion.

There's actually a computer mod that allows you to recruit him at Redcliff. But more to the point, that's true. but if the people that DO leanr how to control it should hold a Blood Magic class i nthe circle(if it were to become more like a magic school like it was when it was first established) and teach people how, and how NOT , to use Blood Magic. If people could control it better then ther ewouldn't be a need to make it a forbiden art. The problem is that the damned Chantry has to control everything and treat mages like less-than-human

Blood magic is, by default evil, as it is first of all thought by demons and B mostly consists out of spells that satisfy demands like rage (going emo and stabbing yourself), desire (mind control) and pride (boosting one's self at the cost of sacrificing others).

Therefore Meredith is, in this case, right. I never really get the Meredith hate, she's obviously twisted by the idol, but that doesn't make her at core a bad person.

Blood magic is evil in the same way that a kalishnakov is evil if you dislike Russians, or an M16 if you dislike Americans.

IT is a tool.

Take a popular rl issue:whether you feel medical termination of gestation is right or wrong has no effect on the nature of forceps.  they are always just steel forged to a particualr shape.

Tools lack teh ability to be inherantly good or evil.





Establishing control is the place of government, not zealot militias.

Last I heard a gun was not powered by evil spirts whose sole purpose is to turn you into a monster and you do realize that not everyone can carry a firearm either right?

[Sepewrath]

Well anyone with the physical capacity can have a gun, most people just aren't suppose to have a gun. And yeah guns aren't powered by real demons, but their only purpose is to maim and kill, so in the end what is the difference?

[ReiSilver]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Elves were enslaved by Tevinter long before Andraste was born, and so they were likely disregarded as less than human by the time she came along. Add in the fact that Dalish elves have very long lifespans, whereas the city elves don't, so they see humans as a poison that limits their lifespan and maybe sometime in the future, they may regain the fabled immortality of the elves long gone.

In Origins, when the Warden goes to the Dalish to call them on the treaty, when you ask Lanaya and the story teller both (forgot his name), you get the story of how the elves used to be immortals, but after they were enslaved, they lost that immortality. They talk about how the Dalish live longer lives than humans and city elves, so the Dalish isolate themselves in a hope to regain their immortality. And their lifespans are getting longer. But they are also losing their magic, maybe getting dangerously close to inbreeding, losing their culture, and are constantly looking down on their own kind in the city even as the rest of Thedas looks down on them.

Merrill put it very well when talking to Hawke while romancing her. "If you were Dalish, we'd have a kingdom by now....and all of Thedas would be trying to destroy us."

And yes, I absolutely hate the templars who go and torture a young dalish hunter who had done nothing related to Fenryiel.

where are you getting the idea that Dalish live longer then normal elves? I've played through as a Dalish and had a second play through not long ago going through the Dalish camp with a mage warden and cannot remember hearing anything like that. The extended life span started dissapearing when humans and elves started interacting with each other. Then the Arlathan elves withdrew blaming contact with humans, then the Tevinters invaded etc etc. Dalish isolate themselves mainly because if they hang around in one place humans get agressive and fearful of them and there's more chance of a templar coming after their Keepers; "We present a moving target".
Most humans think the Dalish are savages, the Chantry spread rumors that they sacrifice people to their gods during the war with The Dales, Leliana mentions how a Dalish Warden hasn't 'kidnapped any women or children' and doesn't seem savage at all, contrary to what she's heard about the Dalish. The Dalish also isolate themselves/are scary to outsiders because they are trying to preserve their culture and don't want to intergrate.
Zathrian lives an exceptionally long time because he was bound to the curse, his clan only thought he had rediscovered the old elven immortality
They also accept city elves who seek to join them like Pol and Wynne's old student. I think the only reason they'd live longer then city elves would be because of the difference in environment/lifestyle rather then the fabeled extended lifespan. I can't imagine the conditions of the alienage are conductive to healthy old age.

[TEWR]

ReiSilver wrote...

where are you getting the idea that Dalish live longer then normal elves? I've played through as a Dalish and had a second play through not long ago going through the Dalish camp with a mage warden and cannot remember hearing anything like that. The extended life span started dissapearing when humans and elves started interacting with each other. Then the Arlathan elves withdrew blaming contact with humans, then the Tevinters invaded etc etc. Dalish isolate themselves mainly because if they hang around in one place humans get agressive and fearful of them and there's more chance of a templar coming after their Keepers; "We present a moving target".

Gheyna.

She says they live longer than the city elves.

Most humans think the Dalish are savages, the Chantry spread rumors that they sacrifice people to their gods during the war with The Dales, Leliana mentions how a Dalish Warden hasn't 'kidnapped any women or children' and doesn't seem savage at all, contrary to what she's heard about the Dalish. The Dalish also isolate themselves/are scary to outsiders because they are trying to preserve their culture and don't want to intergrate.
Zathrian lives an exceptionally long time because he was bound to the curse, his clan only thought he had rediscovered the old elven immortality

Which makes me wonder something. Does Zathrian's spell have something to do with the elven immortality? What if they're connected somehow? I'm grasping at straws here, and I could use a ladder, but I wouldn't rule out elven magic being involved in the elven immortality.

They also accept city elves who seek to join them like Pol and Wynne's old student. I think the only reason they'd live longer then city elves would be because of the difference in environment/lifestyle rather then the fabeled extended lifespan. I can't imagine the conditions of the alienage are conductive to healthy old age.

That is exactly why they live longer. They live in a healthier environment. However, we don't know if that's the only reason. Maybe there is some truth to their isolation. Maybe isolation will lead them to have longer lifespans. Who knows?

[TEWR]

Last I heard a gun was not powered by evil spirts whose sole purpose is to turn you into a monster and you do realize that not everyone can carry a firearm either right?

Last I heard a gun doesn't have the power to fight against or even cleanse a deadly disease-virus carried by twisted incarnations of a race.

But blood magic can.

Last I heard a gun can't control the blood flow of a person who is bleeding profusely and needs medical attention fast.

But blood magic can, as it's described to control the flow of blood.

The story that blood magic leads to an increased risk of meatball flesh suits is just that. A story. We have absolutely no way of verifying that.

[ReiSilver]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Most humans think the Dalish are savages, the Chantry spread rumors that they sacrifice people to their gods during the war with The Dales, Leliana mentions how a Dalish Warden hasn't 'kidnapped any women or children' and doesn't seem savage at all, contrary to what she's heard about the Dalish. The Dalish also isolate themselves/are scary to outsiders because they are trying to preserve their culture and don't want to intergrate.
Zathrian lives an exceptionally long time because he was bound to the curse, his clan only thought he had rediscovered the old elven immortality

Which makes me wonder something. Does Zathrian's spell have something to do with the elven immortality? What if they're connected somehow? I'm grasping at straws here, and I could use a ladder, but I wouldn't rule out elven magic being involved in the elven immortality.

I think Zathrian says it's not the old immortality, it's the connection and co-dependance of the curse. Though I do believe the curse is rooted in old elven magic (not explicitly said in-game I don't think)

On the blood magic topic I also remember one of the codex entries stating that it's not known whether Tevinter mages learned blood magic first from fade demons or from the Arlathan elves. I keep thinking about the Tevinter/elven ruins you find in DA:O and how there must be an epic/tragic tale of two cultures tentatively working together before something causes it to fall apart spectacularly. I want to know this story even though it would probably make me very sad.

[dragonflight288]

It could easily have been a similar story as Cadash Thaig.

[Shadow Fox]

Sepewrath wrote...

Well anyone with the physical capacity can have a gun, most people just aren't suppose to have a gun. And yeah guns aren't powered by real demons, but their only purpose is to maim and kill, so in the end what is the difference?

A gun can't drive you insane simply by using it.

[CrimsonZephyr]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Sepewrath wrote...

Well anyone with the physical capacity can have a gun, most people just aren't suppose to have a gun. And yeah guns aren't powered by real demons, but their only purpose is to maim and kill, so in the end what is the difference?

A gun can't drive you insane simply by using it.

That doesn't justify the bone-crunching abuse of the Templars, though, which is inevitable if the mages have no recourse and the Templars have no checks to their authority.