1529 réponses à ce sujet

[Zulu_DFA]

Everyone's talking about the Arrival DLC and the prospect of Shepard's trial, so I got curious...

So here goes. First of all, I'd like to notice that Shepard didn't need to blow 300K Batarians away to be tried. He got enough blood on his hands without that. But this is almost irrelevant to the main point:

THERE IS NO REASON FOR SHEPARD TO BE TRIED AND/OR IMPRISONED ON EARTH!!!!

In many cases Shepard is still a spectre, which means his arse belongs to the Citadel Council. And I suppose the crimes against the "galactic community" (or whatever they call it) must be tried at the center of the said community, which is the CITADEL.

If Shepard isn't a spectre anymore, and/or the Citadel Council wants to toss the problem to its source (aka the Systems Alliance) even if he is, the trial must take place at the ARCTURUS STATION, which is the political center and military headquarters of the Systems Alliance.

As to the imprisonment, there is no way such a high-profile and dangerous convict can be held on a populated planet.

That is all.


EDIT:

Actually, no. Let's see how much is this really popular -

http://social.biowar...50/polls/17804/


ALSO,

Relevant tvtropes:

http://tvtropes.org/...erOfTheUniverse
http://tvtropes.org/...ittleBluePlanet
http://tvtropes.org/...in/EarthThatWas


ALSO,

The unofficial commentary by Chris L'Etoile, the writer responsible for all ME1 Codex entries and planet descriptions and parts of those in ME2, regarding the Systems Alliance and how it gained independence from Earth's governments:

http://stormwaltz.ga...-upon-the-stars


ALSO, selected comments from the poll:

[quote]DrBobcat wrote...

Citadel/Arcturus Station makes way more sense, so that gets my vote.[/quote]
[quote]UKStory135 wrote...

It should be at the Alliance capital. Is that Arcturus or Earth?[/quote]Arcturus.

[quote]Kaiser Shepard wrote...

I want it to be Arcturus, but my money is on Earth.[/quote]
[quote]leonia42 wrote...

Citadel is my preference but could live with Arcturus. Always wanted to see Arcturus station anyway.[/quote]
[quote]Babe Mause wrote...

Citadel. All my Sheps are spacers and Specters, they have nothing to do with the Earth aside from being human![/quote]
[quote]Orizont wrote...

Why would Shepard be tried on Earth?

Depending on your choices I would think the Citadel Council would be the first to get dibs on the right to prosecute him. If not the Council, then Shepard still is a citizen of the Systems Alliance and a naval officer, so he would be court martial-ed on Arcturus.[/quote]
[quote]chester013 wrote...

I vote for Earth, it's a show trial to pacify the Batarians. I think the scale of the alleged crime goes beyond the remit of the Systems Alliance, if a war crime occurs in RL you aren't often tried in your own country by your countries judicial system.[/quote]In real life U.S. military personnel suspected in war crimes is to be tried by the U.S. military authorities. Unless they are taken prisoner by the other side, in which case it can do whatever it wants. Which, BTW, is also the nature of the International Criminal Court in the Hague: trying poor suckers that lost their causes through military defeats and/or revolts backed by their enemies.

In the ME universe the function of the "super-state" authority belongs to the Citadel Council, not to some Earth's state, all of whom are lesser political entities than the Systems Alliance.

[quote]hangmans tree wrote...

Voted C/AS...but what if Shepard would be on trial as a regular citizen stripped of rank and all?[/quote]In order to strip Shepard of his rank/spectreship, there needs to be a trial first. And what was that talk about "dress blues", BTW?

[quote]aimlessgun wrote...

I voted Earth to spite Zulu [/quote]Thanks, but seeing the poll results I can't feel much spited.

[quote]CaptainZaysh wrote...

Earth. It'd be a much more dramatic setting than some space station somewhere.[/quote]Right. Drama > sense. Only drama without sense is a farce.

[quote]Spectre_907 wrote...

It should be Arcturus if you denied or were denied Spectre status, the Citadel if your Spectre status was reinstated. There should be no reason for a trial on Earth. It's getting really hard to retain respect for the Mass Effect writers.[/quote]


AND, before this thread dies due to irrelevance, in light of the Game Informer confirmation, let me say that:

Since the trial is going to focus on the events of the Arrival DLC,  and the "Previously on Mass Effect" function will be assigned to the intro-comic, and there will be no serious time skip via imprisonment, and the surviving squadmates bow out and TIM gets hostile "just because", the trial itself is a pointltess device now and accomplishes nothing.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 16 avril 2011 - 05:17 .

[CroGamer002]

I think the Council would more then happy to revoke Shepard's Specter status after what happen on Arrival.


And for the rest, where's the plothole?

[Mr. Gogeta34]

I think the trial is to take place on Earth because it's an Alliance issue. That doctor and Hackett are both Alliance/Humans.

[Babli]

But Earth is special.

[Wereparrot]

Zulu_DFA wrote...


In many cases Shepard is still a spectre, which means his arse belongs to the Citadel Council.
That is all.

Except that Shepherd is from Earth, and his ties to Eath, despite being a Spectre, have never been called into question. He belongs to Earth IMO.

[Zulu_DFA]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

I think the trial is to take place on Earth because it's an Alliance issue. That doctor and Hackett are both Alliance/Humans.

And exactly because it's an Alliance issue, it is to be resolved on the Arcturus Station, where the Alliance Parliament and the Navy HQ sit.

The only reason I can see for it to take place on Earth is BioWare's friggin' listenning to the fans, and retconning the lore for the sake of cooling and amping things up.

Crap, that's gonna be another good idea totally screwed over in execution!

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 31 mars 2011 - 10:10 .

[DarkSeraphym]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

I think the trial is to take place on Earth because it's an Alliance issue. That doctor and Hackett are both Alliance/Humans.

And exactly because it's an Alliance issue, it is to be resolved on the Arcturus Station, where tghe Alliance Parliament and the Navy HQ sit.

The only reason I can see for it to take place on Earth is BioWare's friggnin' listening to the fans, and retconning the lore for the sake of cooling and amping things up.

Crap, that's gonna be another good idea totally screwed over in execution!

That or it is on Earth because they intend to have either the trial or the actual imprisonment interrupted when the Reapers show up. God I hope not as it would end up being a missed opportunity, but I'm willing to bet $10 that is why they have it taking place on Earth.

Modifié par DarkSeraphym, 31 mars 2011 - 10:10 .

[Silmane]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

I think the trial is to take place on Earth because it's an Alliance issue. That doctor and Hackett are both Alliance/Humans.

Did ya even read the post? lol

[Leonia]

Yes, this has bothered me as well and I'd point out even being tried on Arcturus station doesn't seem likely. Hackett chose Shepard for the mission because Shepard wasn't affiliated with the Alliance. So what.. after everything, Shepard is going to suddenly be treated like a member of the Alliance and by tried by an Alliance court? That doesn't make any sense at all. As you said, there are other crimes (namely the death of Spectre Vasir which occurs regardless if the player chose to play LotSB or not) and the Council must be itching to apperehend Shepard for questioning at the very least. Once they get wind of the 300,000 dead batarians it's game on and the Alliance will be powerless to stop them. Shepard is NOT Alliance any more and cannot be treated as if he is. And it would be foolish to imprison him on Earth even if a trial could be conducted there (if anything, everything should be going down on the Citadel with C-Sec handling Shepard imprisonment).

[Zulu_DFA]

Wereparrot wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...


In many cases Shepard is still a spectre, which means his arse belongs to the Citadel Council.
That is all.

Except that Shepherd is from Earth, and his ties to Eath, despite being a Spectre, have never been called into question. He belongs to Earth IMO.

Actually, not all Shepards out there are from Earth. And even those that are must be tried where the authorities sit and not where they "belong".

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

I think the trial is to take place on Earth because it's an Alliance issue. That doctor and Hackett are both Alliance/Humans.

And exactly because it's an Alliance issue, it is to be resolved on the Arcturus Station, where the Alliance Parliament and the Navy HQ sit.

The only reason I can see for it to take place on Earth is BioWare's friggin' listenning to the fans, and retconning the lore for the sake of cooling and amping things up.

Crap, that's gonna be another good idea totally screwed over in execution!

Unless they aren't doing a public display of it but still wish to hold it in human-centric territory.

Silmane wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

I think the trial is to take place on Earth because it's an Alliance issue. That doctor and Hackett are both Alliance/Humans.

Did ya even read the post? lol

lol

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 31 mars 2011 - 10:17 .

[Wereparrot]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...


In many cases Shepard is still a spectre, which means his arse belongs to the Citadel Council.
That is all.

Except that Shepherd is from Earth, and his ties to Eath, despite being a Spectre, have never been called into question. He belongs to Earth IMO.

Actually, not all Shepards out there are from Earth. And even those that are must be tried where the authorities sit and not where they "belong".

Maybe so, but I like to think that my Shepherds are all English, accent notwitstanding, and consequently remain loyal to England. (I haven't actually played an Earthborn yet, but I would probably think of him as from Rio.) I don't like the idea that Shepherd is a subject of the Council. I would like the option to bring this point up in the event of a trial.

Modifié par Wereparrot, 31 mars 2011 - 10:31 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

I don't think the Council publically acknowledges that Shepard's even alive yet at this point.

[Leonia]

Given Shepard's other crimes, wouldn't it be seen as a bit strange from the POV of the rest of the galactic comunity that the human-ran System Alliance is trying Shepard? They would claim bias, obviously the Alliance would try to protect one of their own species instead of try to convict them. The batarians especially would call foul on it.

[DarkSeraphym]

Wereparrot wrote...

Maybe so, but I like to think that my Shepherds are all English, accent notwitstanding, and consequently remain loyal to England. I don't like the idea that Shepherd is a subject of the Council. I would like the option to bring this point up in the event of a trial.

No to sound rude, but whatever you like to believe about your Shepard is not really relevant. The lore of the game explains that Spectres are explicitly under the jurisdiction of the Council and no one else. Simply because you believe that someone does not have jurisdiction over you does not make it so. The fact of the matter is that Spectres are only supposed to answer to the Council and unless you played as a Renegade Shepard who put Udina into power, rejected your Spectre status, or BioWare intends to strip you of that status somehow; it is a plot hole.

Modifié par DarkSeraphym, 31 mars 2011 - 10:34 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Though depending on your playthrough the Council also wants nothing to do with you.

[DarkSeraphym]

leonia42 wrote...

Given Shepard's other crimes, wouldn't it be seen as a bit strange from the POV of the rest of the galactic comunity that the human-ran System Alliance is trying Shepard? They would claim bias, obviously the Alliance would try to protect one of their own species instead of try to convict them. The batarians especially would call foul on it.

Only if the Systems Alliance gives him a slap on the rest. Realistically, going to the Council for a trial would probably result in more complaints from the batarians. They have already swept a lot of their complaints under the rug as is and the batarians aren't simply going to be able to bully the Council with threats of war the same way that they could the Alliance.

Modifié par DarkSeraphym, 31 mars 2011 - 10:36 .

[Wereparrot]

DarkSeraphym wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

Maybe so, but I like to think that my Shepherds are all English, accent notwitstanding, and consequently remain loyal to England. I don't like the idea that Shepherd is a subject of the Council. I would like the option to bring this point up in the event of a trial.

Whatever you like to believe about your Shepard is not really relevant. The lore of the game explains that Spectres are explicitly under the jurisdiction of the Council and no one else. Simply because you believe that someone does not have jurisdiction over you does not make it so. The fact of the matter is that Spectres are only supposed to answer to the Council and unless you played as a Renegade Shepard who put Udina into power, rejected your Spectre status, or BioWare intends to strip you of that status somehow; it is a plot hole.

I get your point but nowhere in either ME game is it implied that Shepherd either has been released from or acknowledges being released from his Earthen commitments. The Alliance 'reliquishes' a hold on him, sure, but I don't think individual governments would see it that way.

[Zulu_DFA]

Wereparrot wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

In many cases Shepard is still a spectre, which means his arse belongs to the Citadel Council.
That is all.

Except that Shepherd is from Earth, and his ties to Eath, despite being a Spectre, have never been called into question. He belongs to Earth IMO.

Actually, not all Shepards out there are from Earth. And even those that are must be tried where the authorities sit and not where they "belong".

Maybe so, but I like to think that my Shepherds are all English, accent notwitstanding, and consequently remain loyal to England. I don't like the idea that Shepherd is a subject of the Council. I would like the option to bring this point up in the event of a trial.

I love England too and the date of the Invincible Armada's defeat has been the PIN-code on all my SIM-cards, but this has nothing to do with the ME universe, in which England is a part of an acid-washed slum, as Administrator Anoleis bluntly put it, may he rot in the filthiest jail for that!

ME1 established an amazing lore, and ME2 screwed it all up well enough. I don't hold any breath for amends to be made in ME3, but can we at least not have any plot holes for the sake of plot holes?

Wereparrot wrote...

I get your point but nowhere in either ME game is it implied that Shepherd either has been released from or acknowledges being released from his Earthen commitments. The Alliance 'reliquishes' a hold on him, sure, but I don't think individual governments would see it that way.

And another part of the ME lore is that the Earthworms' individual governments have no say whatsoever in any matter beyond the Charon relay, where the Alliance calls all the Human political and military shots.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 31 mars 2011 - 10:47 .

[DarkSeraphym]

Wereparrot wrote...

I get your point but nowhere in either ME game is it implied that Shepherd either has been released from or acknowledges being released from his Earthen commitments. The Alliance 'reliquishes' a hold on him, sure, but I don't think individual governments would see it that way.

He is not released from his "Earthly" commitments if that is an appropriate word for it. He is still required to represent humanity when needed. However, this is not a question of commitment. It is a question of jurisdiction as the only way he is going to trial is if he has committed a crime. The Systems Alliance does not have jurisdiction over Shepard once he becomes a Spectre. He answers only to the Council (the Revelation novel deals a lot with Spectre status as Saren does a lot of questionable things). If you want, think of it as "diplomatic immunity" where he is free from the jurisdiction of any government short of the Council, in Citadel Space anyway.

Modifié par DarkSeraphym, 31 mars 2011 - 10:46 .

[Sidewinder_617]

Shepard's not going on trial just yet and since this mission was designed as side-story,
i don't see this going further then al-jilhani or a mad batarian clamoring about it on vidlogs
or tracking shep on ME3

Modifié par Sidewinder_617, 31 mars 2011 - 10:48 .

[DarkSeraphym]

Sidewinder_617 wrote...

Shepard's not going on trial just yet and since this mission was designed as side-story,
i don't see this going further then al-jilhani or a mad batarian clamoring about it on vidlogs
or tracking shep on ME3

It may have been designed as a side story, but it was one of the two bridging DLC and it was one of two DLC that were linear enough to send Shepard down the same path regardless of his/her Paragon or Renegade standing. It is likely that they did this because they intended to use the DLC in the story of ME3 regardless of whether or not you actually played it, which is the samething they'll do with LOTSB. To me, that implies that it will play a big part in Mass Effect 3.

Modifié par DarkSeraphym, 31 mars 2011 - 10:52 .

[Bogsnot1]

Just replay and tell Bailey you want to remain dead. Let the Alliance have fun trying to hang a dead man.

[The dead fish]

It is entirely credible that Shepard accountable to the earth. His gesture may still engage humanity in a war against the Hegemony. The earth is threatened, not on Arcturus such matter should be discussed.