1529 réponses à ce sujet

[Zulu_DFA]

piemanz wrote...

Earth is just a colony?....Unbeleivable

Not my problem. But that's politics for you and how it works.

[WolfShapedBullet]

Weskerr wrote...

Oblivionous wrote...

Weskerr wrote...

piemanz wrote...

Weskerr wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Ok I am a bit lost. How is it a plot hole? No seriously, i'm usually on top of these things.

Is it because the Alliance is a separate entity from Earth entirely? (Operational wise at least)

That's right.

However, Earth still falls under the banner of the Alliance. They can try Shephard there if they want to.

I thought the Alliance fell under the banner of Earth.

It does.

Okay, so that means that the center of power of humanity is Earth, and not Arcturus Station, unless Shepard is going to be tried in a military court, in which case the leaders of Earth could decide to try him on the Station.

■If you choose to say that Hackett should be thanking you, Hackett says that is isn't a matter of preference, and Shepard would make a convenient scapegoat to avoid open war.

I guess the question to answer is: War with who? Systems Alliance or Humanity as a whole?

Answer: Humanity=The Systems Alliance : is the representative body of Earth and all human colonies in Citadel space.

The Systems Alliance resides at the Arcturus Station. While it would make perfect sense to hold the trial there, the Systems Alliance is holding it at Earth, as Hackett states. Because they (as the writers decided) decided to conduct it there.

The only question now is whether or not the Council will strip Shepard of their Spectre title, or look the other way as Humanity handles its own problems.

Good point about Sheparad being a scapegoat. After all, 300,000 of the Batarian's citizens/slaves/indentured servants were just murdered. They're going to want to retaliate against whoever was responsible. Still, Shepard was sent by Hackett on a secret mission precisely because he did not want the Batarians to know that the Alliance was involved. By putting Shepard on trial, isn't the Alliance admitting openly that one of their own was responsible for killing a third of a million Batarians? That's what they didn't want the Batarians to know in the first place.

Hackett will counter by saying that it is not an Alliance operation, it is one person going in to rescue a friend because if it was an official mission then they would be upset. As long Shepard keeps it quiet, then there is nothing to worry about.

^Shepard didn't keep it quiet. Relay KaBoom!

Hackett continues by saying that the batarians will be out for blood, no doubt about that, and that there is just enough evidence for a witch-hunt. However, they don’t want a war with the batarians with the Reapers at the galaxy’s edge.

^Hence the scapegoat. We the fans don't know what exactly this "just enough" evidence is. The fact is, it's there. And it implicates humanity/the Alliance.

Modifié par Oblivionous, 01 avril 2011 - 06:35 .

[Almostfaceman]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

The Alliance is NOT independent, it is a representative of Earth.  Also from the codex:

And the Turian Hierarchy is a representative of the Vol Protectorate. Here you have it, my man. Earth, or rather, various Earth's nations, are client stated of the Systems Alliance. You see, the Alliance is up there, Earth is down here. Makes no sense to try Shepard back on Earth if you want galactic publicity.

Now you're just arguing with the codex, not me.  They are not clients - the Alliance represents the power that is Earth.  Galactic publicity is achieved by galactic news network technology - from any location.

This just in!  Earth, cradle of humanity, calls its favored son Shepard back to answer for his crimes!  News at 11!

[Almostfaceman]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

piemanz wrote...

Earth is just a colony?....Unbeleivable

Not my problem. But that's politics for you and how it works.

Wrong.

[Pwener2313]

I never understood what goes on in this thread. Do people want to go to Earth or not? They've been pushing for that for the whole series, and now they resent the idea? I don't get you people.

[WolfShapedBullet]

Pwener2313 wrote...

I never understood what goes on in this thread. Do people want to go to Earth or not? They've been pushing for that for the whole series, and now they resent the idea? I don't get you people.

Silly you thinking that the fans know what they want!

[Weskerr]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...


No, it doesn't. The Alliance became independent of the "banner of Earth" after the First Contact War.

Nope. From the codex.

The Systems Alliance is the representative body of Earth and all human colonies in Citadel space. Backed by Earth's most powerful nations, the Alliance has become humanity's military, exploratory, and economic spearhead

Notice how this codex does not say that the Alliance is humanity's political spearhead. Earth is the center of politics of Humanity, and thus the center of government, power, and decision making.

Modifié par Weskerr, 01 avril 2011 - 06:39 .

[Almostfaceman]

Pwener2313 wrote...

I never understood what goes on in this thread. Do people want to go to Earth or not? They've been pushing for that for the whole series, and now they resent the idea? I don't get you people.

It's just Zulu trying to say that because a space station was built all of a sudden Earth becomes irrelevent.  Disproved both in the codex and by common sense.

[Zulu_DFA]

piemanz wrote...

The Alliance is a human entity and Earth is the human homeworld. Is that so hard to understand?

The 13 colonies were the property of the British Crown and England was the homeland of the American colonists. Now the Unites States is an independent nation and like it or not, the senior partner in the long standing Anglo-American alliance.

Is that so hard to understand?

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 01 avril 2011 - 06:38 .

[Weskerr]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

piemanz wrote...

The Alliance is a human entity and Earth is the human homeworld. Is that so hard to understand?

The 13 colonies were the property of the British Crown and England was the homeland of the American colonists. Now the Unites States is an independent nation and like it or not, the senior partner in the long standing Anglo-American alliance.

Is that so hard to understand?

However, the Alliance is not an independent nation. That's where the similarities between it and the orginal 13 American colonies and Britain end.

[Nashiktal]

Not to mention the only valuable resource that Earth has to offer is manpower. Otherwise it is a pure resource glut.

[Almostfaceman]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

piemanz wrote...

The Alliance is a human entity and Earth is the human homeworld. Is that so hard to understand?

The 13 colonies were the property of the British Crown and England was the homeland of the American colonists. Now the Unites States is an independent nation and like it or not, the senior partner in the long standing Anglo-American alliance.

Is that so hard to understand?

Roflmao, nowhere in the codex does it say that the Alliance is not answerable to Earth.  Actually, it says just the opposite.  You can't represent something if you're not answerable to it.

[Zulu_DFA]

Weskerr wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...


No, it doesn't. The Alliance became independent of the "banner of Earth" after the First Contact War.

Nope. From the codex.

The Systems Alliance is the representative body of Earth and all human colonies in Citadel space. Backed by Earth's most powerful nations, the Alliance has become humanity's military, exploratory, and economic spearhead

Notice how this codex does not say that the Alliance is humanity's political spearhead. Earth is the center of politics of Humanity, and thus the center of government, power, and decision making.

=== Systems Alliance ===
 
The Systems Alliance is an independent supranational government representing the interests of
humanity as a whole. The Alliance is responsible for the governance and defense of all extra-solar
colonies and space stations.
 
The Alliance grew out of the various nation space programs as a matter of practicality. Sol's planets h
been explored and exploited through piecemeal nation efforts. The expense of colonizing entire new
solar systems could not be met by any one country. With humans knowing that alien contact was
inevitable, there was enough political will to jointly fund an international effort.
 
Still, the Alliance was often disregarded by those on Earth until the First Contact War. While the nati
governments dithered and bickered over who should lead the effort to liberate Shanxi, the Alliance f
struck decisively. Post-War public approval gave the Alliance the credibility to establish its own
Parliament and become the galactic face of humanity.

 
 
=== Rise of the Alliance ===

 A political-economic pact for collective colonial security, the Alliance is the central galactic institution of
human society. The Alliance gained associate membership to the Citadel Council in 2165 and assumed
leadership in 2183, with former Ambassador Donnel Udina or Captain David Anderson (depending on
Shepard's choice) presiding.
 
Many species regard humanity as a rogue race and its 2183 victory following the attack on Eden Prime
as a brutal and calculated sacrifice of its military rivals. Humans allegedly leveraged military victory into
a political one, carving associate membership out of the violently-depopulated Council.
 
Because of the human Spectre Shepard's pivotal role in saving the Council, many analysts conclude
several humans will be made candidates for Spectre status, further solidifying the human contribution
to galactic peace.
 
By achieving in decades what others waited centuries to receive, especially after so bloody a conflict,
humans have guaranteed themselves deep hostility and fear throughout the galaxy.
 


=== Stations: Arcturus Station ===

Arcturus Station is the gateway to Sol, a 5-kilometer diameter space station at the trailing Lagrange
point of the gas giant Themis. Construction on Arcturus Station began in 2151 and concluded in 2162. It
was inaugurated in 2156, and has served as the military and political headquarters of the Systems
Alliance from the First Contact War until the present.
 
When humanity activated the Charon Mass Relay in 2149, it led to Arcturus, 36 light years from Sol,
Earth's sun. Arcturus is the third brightest star seen from Earth. It is an ancient red giant from the
generation born before Sol. Its worlds are either gas giants or ice chunks. While some rocky debris
exists, the metal content is 25% lower than normal. To build Arcturus Station, metallic asteroids were
towed through the mass relays to the construction site. Many of these asteroids remain near the
station, their mined out areas home to transient populations.
 
The expense of bringing construct materials into the system was acceptable due to its strategic value.
With three primary mass relays in addition to the secondary one to Sol, Arcturus is a major
communications and military chokepoint. The Alliance 1st Fleet is based in Arcturus, where it can guard
the gates to Sol and react to incursions in the three connected clusters. The Station also hosts the
Systems Alliance Parliament and the Systems Alliance Military general headquarters. Its permanent
population is approximately 45,000.
 
Arcturus is actually from the galactic halo, one of a cluster of 52 stars that are "crashing through" the
disc of the galaxy. In a billion years, Arcturus will be sailing through the depths of extragalactic dark
space.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 01 avril 2011 - 06:52 .

[Almostfaceman]

Nashiktal wrote...

Not to mention the only valuable resource that Earth has to offer is manpower. Otherwise it is a pure resource glut.

That is not true at all.  Nowhere is it said that the Earth has run out of resources.

[Nashiktal]

Roflmao, nowhere in the codex does it say that the Alliance is not answerable to Earth. Actually, it says just the opposite. You can't represent something if you're not answerable to it.

Answerable? The Alliance holds the space fleet, the colonies, and diplomatic ties with the citadel. Earth holds.... A big rock that sucks up resources.

[Leonia]

Weskerr wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

piemanz wrote...

The Alliance is a human entity and Earth is the human homeworld. Is that so hard to understand?

The 13 colonies were the property of the British Crown and England was the homeland of the American colonists. Now the Unites States is an independent nation and like it or not, the senior partner in the long standing Anglo-American alliance.

Is that so hard to understand?

However, the Alliance is not an independent nation. That's where the similarities between it and the orginal 13 American colonies and Britain end.

*facepalm*

Nobody said it was an independent nation. We're saying it GOVERNS Earth and the colonies. It's the Motherland, whereas Earth and all the colonies, are its children. Earth just happens to be the eldest of those children. Earth and the colonies have representatives in the System Alliance Parliament. Which convenes on Arcturus Station. Where they pass laws. For Earth. And the Colonies. On Arcturus Station.

Modifié par leonia42, 01 avril 2011 - 06:48 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Almostfaceman wrote...

You can't represent something if you're not answerable to it.

ROFLMAO.

[Nashiktal]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Weskerr wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...


No, it doesn't. The Alliance became independent of the "banner of Earth" after the First Contact War.

Nope. From the codex.

The Systems Alliance is the representative body of Earth and all human colonies in Citadel space. Backed by Earth's most powerful nations, the Alliance has become humanity's military, exploratory, and economic spearhead

Notice how this codex does not say that the Alliance is humanity's political spearhead. Earth is the center of politics of Humanity, and thus the center of government, power, and decision making.

=== Systems Alliance ===
 
 
The Systems Alliance is an independent supranational government representing the interests of
humanity as a whole. The Alliance is responsible for the governance and defense of all extra-solar
colonies and space stations.
 
The Alliance grew out of the various nation space programs as a matter of practicality. Sol's planets h
been explored and exploited through piecemeal nation efforts. The expense of colonizing entire new
solar systems could not be met by any one country. With humans knowing that alien contact was
inevitable, there was enough political will to jointly fund an international effort.
 
Still, the Alliance was often disregarded by those on Earth until the First Contact War. While the nati
governments dithered and bickered over who should lead the effort to liberate Shanxi, the Alliance f
struck decisively. Post-War public approval gave the Alliance the credibility to establish its own
Parliament and become the galactic face of humanity.
 
 
=== Rise of the Alliance ===
==== Renegade ====
 
 A political-economic pact for collective colonial security, the Alliance is the central galactic institution of
human society. The Alliance gained associate membership to the Citadel Council in 2165 and assumed
leadership in 2183, with former Ambassador Donnel Udina or Captain David Anderson (depending on
Shepard's choice) presiding.
 
Many species regard humanity as a rogue race and its 2183 victory following the attack on Eden Prime
as a brutal and calculated sacrifice of its military rivals. Humans allegedly leveraged military victory into
a political one, carving associate membership out of the violently-depopulated Council.
 
Because of the human Spectre Shepard's pivotal role in saving the Council, many analysts conclude
several humans will be made candidates for Spectre status, further solidifying the human contribution
to galactic peace.
 
By achieving in decades what others waited centuries to receive, especially after so bloody a conflict,
humans have guaranteed themselves deep hostility and fear throughout the galaxy.
 


=== First Contact War ===
 
 
Humanity's first contact with an alien race occurred in 2157. At that time, the Alliance allowed survey
fleets to activate any dormant mass relays discovered, a practice considered dangerous and
irresponsible by Council-aligned races. When a Turian patrol discovered a human fleet attempting to
activate a relay, they attacked. One human vessel survived, retreating to the colony of Shanxi.
 
The turians followed, quickly defeating the local forces. Shanxi was occupied, the first - and, to date,
only - human world to be conquered by an alien species. The turians believed the handful of ships they defeated represented the bulk of human defenses. So they were unprepared when the Second Fleet
under Admiral Kastanie Drescher, launched a strong counteroffensive, evicting them from Shanxi.
 
The turians mobilized for full-scale war, drawing the attention of the rest of the galaxy. The Council
quickly intervened, forcing a truce. Fortunately for humanity, the First Contact War was ended with a
diplomatic solution.


=== Stations: Arcturus Station ===
Arcturus Station is the gateway to Sol, a 5-kilometer diameter space station at the trailing Lagrange
point of the gas giant Themis. Construction on Arcturus Station began in 2151 and concluded in 2162. It
was inaugurated in 2156, and has served as the military and political headquarters of the Systems
Alliance from the First Contact War until the present.
 
When humanity activated the Charon Mass Relay in 2149, it led to Arcturus, 36 light years from Sol,
Earth's sun. Arcturus is the third brightest star seen from Earth. It is an ancient red giant from the
generation born before Sol. Its worlds are either gas giants or ice chunks. While some rocky debris
exists, the metal content is 25% lower than normal. To build Arcturus Station, metallic asteroids were
towed through the mass relays to the construction site. Many of these asteroids remain near the
station, their mined out areas home to transient populations.
 
The expense of bringing construct materials into the system was acceptable due to its strategic value.
With three primary mass relays in addition to the secondary one to Sol, Arcturus is a major
communications and military chokepoint. The Alliance 1st Fleet is based in Arcturus, where it can guard
the gates to Sol and react to incursions in the three connected clusters. The Station also hosts the
Systems Alliance Parliament and the Systems Alliance Military general headquarters. Its permanent
population is approximately 45,000.
 
Arcturus is actually from the galactic halo, one of a cluster of 52 stars that are "crashing through" the
disc of the galaxy. In a billion years, Arcturus will be sailing through the depths of extragalactic dark
space.

Decided to point out the important bits for those who like to skim.

Modifié par Nashiktal, 01 avril 2011 - 06:49 .

[Almostfaceman]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Weskerr wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...


No, it doesn't. The Alliance became independent of the "banner of Earth" after the First Contact War.

Nope. From the codex.

The Systems Alliance is the representative body of Earth and all human colonies in Citadel space. Backed by Earth's most powerful nations, the Alliance has become humanity's military, exploratory, and economic spearhead

Notice how this codex does not say that the Alliance is humanity's political spearhead. Earth is the center of politics of Humanity, and thus the center of government, power, and decision making.

=== Systems Alliance ===
 
 
The Systems Alliance is an independent supranational government representing the interests of
humanity as a whole. The Alliance is responsible for the governance and defense of all extra-solar
colonies and space stations.
 
The Alliance grew out of the various nation space programs as a matter of practicality. Sol's planets h
been explored and exploited through piecemeal nation efforts. The expense of colonizing entire new
solar systems could not be met by any one country. With humans knowing that alien contact was
inevitable, there was enough political will to jointly fund an international effort.
 
Still, the Alliance was often disregarded by those on Earth until the First Contact War. While the nati
governments dithered and bickered over who should lead the effort to liberate Shanxi, the Alliance f
struck decisively. Post-War public approval gave the Alliance the credibility to establish its own
Parliament and become the galactic face of humanity.
 
 
=== Rise of the Alliance ===
==== Renegade ====
 
 A political-economic pact for collective colonial security, the Alliance is the central galactic institution of
human society. The Alliance gained associate membership to the Citadel Council in 2165 and assumed
leadership in 2183, with former Ambassador Donnel Udina or Captain David Anderson (depending on
Shepard's choice) presiding.
 
Many species regard humanity as a rogue race and its 2183 victory following the attack on Eden Prime
as a brutal and calculated sacrifice of its military rivals. Humans allegedly leveraged military victory into
a political one, carving associate membership out of the violently-depopulated Council.
 
Because of the human Spectre Shepard's pivotal role in saving the Council, many analysts conclude
several humans will be made candidates for Spectre status, further solidifying the human contribution
to galactic peace.
 
By achieving in decades what others waited centuries to receive, especially after so bloody a conflict,
humans have guaranteed themselves deep hostility and fear throughout the galaxy.

Roflmao, are you actually trying to say that Earth has lost relevence because it's figured out how to organize itself through the Alliance?  

The homeworld and capital of humanity is entering a new golden age. The resource wealth of a dozen settled colonies and a hundred industrial outposts flows back to Earth, fueling great works of industry, commerce, and art. 

[Pwener2313]

Oblivionous wrote...

Pwener2313 wrote...

I never understood what goes on in this thread. Do people want to go to Earth or not? They've been pushing for that for the whole series, and now they resent the idea? I don't get you people.

Silly you thinking that the fans know what they want!

[Nashiktal]

Almostface doesnt know how to read it seems.

[Leonia]

Exactly, Pwener, exactly. I need a coffee break.

Also, I'm not against Earth being in ME3. Just against it being the location of the trial.

Modifié par leonia42, 01 avril 2011 - 06:52 .

[piemanz]

Nashiktil doesn't know how to think it seems

[Almostfaceman]

Nashiktal wrote...

Almostface doesnt know how to read it seems.

Read this:

The homeworld and capital of humanity is entering a new golden age. The resource wealth of a dozen settled colonies and a hundred industrial outposts flows back to Earth, fueling great works of industry, commerce, and art. 

[Dave of Canada]

Earth is still divided and the only "united" place between all humans is the Systems Alliance, which is based off Arcturus. Any crime dealing with the Systems Alliance and galaxy wide politics should be held there, not Earth which is an icon now more than anything.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 01 avril 2011 - 06:53 .