1529 réponses à ce sujet

[GnusmasTHX]

Nashiktal wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

The Alliance is the Human government. Earth is just a "colony" with several nations on it. Understand?

Wrongo, the Alliance is a representative of Earth.  Earth has 11 billion people on it.  That representative vote holds far more sway than the next hightest population "colony" of 5 million.  According to the codex, Earth is still considered the central power of humanity:

The homeworld and capital of humanity is entering a new golden age. The resource wealth of a dozen settled colonies and a hundred industrial outposts flows back to Earth, fueling great works of industry, commerce, and art. 

You seem to be misunderstanding. Earth is the homeworld, but is actually of little "literal"  importance. Earth is a symbol, but otherwise doesnt do much for Earth as a whole. to the Alliance Earth is one big whiny colony, that doesnt even have a unified voice.

The only resource Earth produces is manpower. That is it. All the resources, all the wealth, all the power comes from the colonies. Earth is like the biggest sibling. It gets the best allowence because of that.

You seem to be misunderstanding.

To say that Earth "only" produces manpower is simply stupid.

Just think about what you're saying. If the Government of the United States was centered on Hawaii, you'd be saying that all mainland U.S does is provide manpower. How frakkin' ridiculous.

Wealth does not equal resources. The economy of the Systems Alliance is no doubt housed and reliant on all the corporations, businesses and enterprises headquarterd on Earth. Do you think that the giant companies that oursource work to less developed nations could exist without the management in the West? No.

The Systems Alliance is considered a sleeping giant, and if we were to take the analogy one step further, Earth would be its head. 

Nevermind the fact that you seem to be completely oblivious of "representative body of Earth" and "backed by Earth's most powerful nations" both of mean which the Systems Alliance = Earth Superpowers' b***. They exist because the Earth allocates a ****ton of manpower and funding. Why? So they can expand and bring back resources to make Earth better.

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 01 avril 2011 - 07:01 .

[piemanz]

Nobody is argueing that Arcturas wouldn't make equal sense, But to say holding the trial on Earth is a plothole, i mean come on.

Modifié par piemanz, 01 avril 2011 - 06:54 .

[Almostfaceman]

leonia42 wrote...

Exactly, Pwener, exactly. I need a coffee break.

Also, I'm not against Earth being in ME3. Just against it being the location of the trial.

That's cool, but it's obviously still the center of humanity, so it can't be called a plot hole to hold the trial there.

[Zulu_DFA]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Almostface doesnt know how to read it seems.

Read this:

The homeworld and capital of humanity is entering a new golden age. The resource wealth of a dozen settled colonies and a hundred industrial outposts flows back to Earth, fueling great works of industry, commerce, and art. 

Reaf this:

Arcturus Station is the gateway to Sol, a 5-kilometer diameter space station at the trailing Lagrange
point of the gas giant Themis. Construction on Arcturus Station began in 2151 and concluded in 2162. It
was inaugurated in 2156, and has served as the military and political headquarters of the Systems
Alliance from the First Contact War until the present.

[Almostfaceman]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

You seem to be misunderstanding.

To say that Earth "only" produces manpower is simply stupid.

Just think about what you're saying. If the Government of the United States was centered on Hawaii, you'd be saying that all mainland U.S does is provide manpower. How frakkin' ridiculous.

Wealth does not equal resources. The economy of the Systems Alliance is no doubt housed and reliant on all the corporations, businesses and enterprises headquarterd on Earth. Do you think that the giant companies that oursource work to less developed nations could exist without the management in the West? No.

The Systems Alliance is considered a sleeping giant, and if we were to take the analogy one step further, Earth would be its head. 

Quote for Truth

[Leonia]

Almostfaceman wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

Exactly, Pwener, exactly. I need a coffee break.

Also, I'm not against Earth being in ME3. Just against it being the location of the trial.

That's cool, but it's obviously still the center of humanity, so it can't be called a plot hole to hold the trial there.

Keep quoting that Earth codex entry all you like but you keep forgetting to read the Arcturus Station codex entry that I have linked to. It clearly states the Arctrus Station is the capital of the System Alliance. We've gone over this and you've already admitted this point before so why are you retreating to your old stance? We already established Earth is a symoblic capital and Arcturus Station is the real capital where laws are made. Let's not keep going in circles.

Almostfaceman wrote...

Yes, we get it that Arcturus is the capital of the Alliance. 

Modifié par leonia42, 01 avril 2011 - 06:58 .

[Dave of Canada]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Just think about what you're saying. If the Government of the United States was centered on Hawaii, you'd be saying that all mainland U.S does is provide manpower. How frakkin' ridiculous.

Your analogy would make sense if Earth was united.

It isn't.

[Almostfaceman]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Almostface doesnt know how to read it seems.

Read this:

The homeworld and capital of humanity is entering a new golden age. The resource wealth of a dozen settled colonies and a hundred industrial outposts flows back to Earth, fueling great works of industry, commerce, and art. 

Reaf this:

Arcturus Station is the gateway to Sol, a 5-kilometer diameter space station at the trailing Lagrange
point of the gas giant Themis. Construction on Arcturus Station began in 2151 and concluded in 2162. It
was inaugurated in 2156, and has served as the military and political headquarters of the Systems
Alliance from the First Contact War until the present.

The codex still calls Earth the capital of humanity.  The Alliance certainly doesn't derive its power from the tiny colonies - it gets its power from Earth.  Earth established Arcturus station.

[Almostfaceman]

Dave of Canada wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Just think about what you're saying. If the Government of the United States was centered on Hawaii, you'd be saying that all mainland U.S does is provide manpower. How frakkin' ridiculous.

Your analogy would make sense if Earth was united.

It isn't.

*sigh* yes it is.  The Alliance is proof of that.

[Dave of Canada]

Almostfaceman wrote...

*sigh* yes it is.  The Alliance is proof of that.

Earth itself is divided, the Alliance is the only part where Earth puts aside everything to work together.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 01 avril 2011 - 06:59 .

[Almostfaceman]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

*sigh* yes it is.  The Alliance is proof of that.

Earth itself is divided, the Alliance is the only part where Earth puts aside everything to work together.

Divided, but working together through the Alliance.

[piemanz]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

*sigh* yes it is.  The Alliance is proof of that.

Earth itself is divided, the Alliance is the only part where Earth puts aside everything to work together.

Earth is still divided among nation-states, though all are affiliated beneath the overarching banner of the Systems Alliance

Modifié par piemanz, 01 avril 2011 - 07:02 .

[Zulu_DFA]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

To say that Earth "only" produces manpower is simply stupid.

No it's not.

Eezo is the Mass Effect's oil, and the Earth doesn't have any. Now, the Earth would probably have had the upper hand, if it had a large space fleet, but guess what, the Earth's space fleet went all rogue during the FCW and now it commands itself from the Arcturus Station. So the Earth is pretty much at the mercy of the Alliance, just as it would have been at the mercy of the Turian Hierarchy, should the Alliance lose the FCW.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 01 avril 2011 - 07:10 .

[Leonia]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Just think about what you're saying. If the Government of the United States was centered on Hawaii, you'd be saying that all mainland U.S does is provide manpower. How frakkin' ridiculous.

Your analogy would make sense if Earth was united.

It isn't.

*sigh* yes it is.  The Alliance is proof of that.

Earth: a bunch of un-united nation-states
System Alliance: a bunch of united colonies + the Earth representatives

Earth Codex Entry (the part that isn't being continously quote):

Earth is still divided among nation-states, though all are affiliated beneath the overarching banner of the Systems Alliance.
While every human enjoys longer and better life then ever, the gap
between rich and poor widens daily. Advanced nations have eliminated
most genetic disease
and pollution. Less fortunate regions have not progressed beyond 20th
century technology, and are often smog-choked, overpopulated slums.

Earth answers to the Alliance, not the other way around.

Modifié par leonia42, 01 avril 2011 - 07:03 .

[Dave of Canada]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Divided, but working together through the Alliance.

And that's why the Alliance at Arcterus should trial Shepard, Earth has nothing to do with galactic politics except for being an icon and supplying the Alliance. Shepard being trialed by the United States or whatever just doesn't work when the crime is something that happened with the Batarians and he's being trialed by the SA.

Earth isn't that important when you consider the scale of galactic politics.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 01 avril 2011 - 07:03 .

[GuardianAngel470]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Almostface doesnt know how to read it seems.

Read this:

The homeworld and capital of humanity is entering a new golden age. The resource wealth of a dozen settled colonies and a hundred industrial outposts flows back to Earth, fueling great works of industry, commerce, and art. 

Reaf this:

Arcturus Station is the gateway to Sol, a 5-kilometer diameter space station at the trailing Lagrange
point of the gas giant Themis. Construction on Arcturus Station began in 2151 and concluded in 2162. It
was inaugurated in 2156, and has served as the military and political headquarters of the Systems
Alliance from the First Contact War until the present.

Did you guys miss the purpose of holding the trial at all? It's to politically appease the Batarians. The Batarians aren't going to care that Arcturus is the home of the Alliance, they're going to care about the symbology of trying Shepard on Earth, the home of humanity.

If the Batarians see Shepard on trial by humans, on the human homeworld, surrounded by other humans, they'll feel a lot more appeased than if they did it on Arturus, to them most likely a meaningless space station.

You're all broiled in the legality and correctness of holding it one place or another and missing the intent.

[Almostfaceman]

leonia42 wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Just think about what you're saying. If the Government of the United States was centered on Hawaii, you'd be saying that all mainland U.S does is provide manpower. How frakkin' ridiculous.

Your analogy would make sense if Earth was united.

It isn't.

*sigh* yes it is.  The Alliance is proof of that.

Earth: a bunch of un-united nation-states
System Alliance: a bunch of united colonies + the Earth representatives

Earth Codex Entry (the part that isn't being continously quote):

Earth is still divided among nation-states, though all are affiliated beneath the overarching banner of the Systems Alliance.
While every human enjoys longer and better life then ever, the gap
between rich and poor widens daily. Advanced nations have eliminated
most genetic disease
and pollution. Less fortunate regions have not progressed beyond 20th
century technology, and are often smog-choked, overpopulated slums.

Earth, a bunch of nation states working together through the Alliance.

[Nashiktal]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Almostface doesnt know how to read it seems.

Read this:

The homeworld and capital of humanity is entering a new golden age. The resource wealth of a dozen settled colonies and a hundred industrial outposts flows back to Earth, fueling great works of industry, commerce, and art. 

I did. You however failed to read the rest of the text. So you are invalid until you read it properly.

[piemanz]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Did you guys miss the purpose of holding the trial at all? It's to politically appease the Batarians. The Batarians aren't going to care that Arcturus is the home of the Alliance, they're going to care about the symbology of trying Shepard on Earth, the home of humanity.

If the Batarians see Shepard on trial by humans, on the human homeworld, surrounded by other humans, they'll feel a lot more appeased than if they did it on Arturus, to them most likely a meaningless space station.

You're all broiled in the legality and correctness of holding it one place or another and missing the intent.

Exactly...this is the point i've been trying to drum through for 3 pages now......

Modifié par piemanz, 01 avril 2011 - 07:06 .

[Leonia]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

If the Batarians see Shepard on trial by humans, on the human homeworld, surrounded by other humans, they'll feel a lot more appeased than if they did it on Arturus, to them most likely a meaningless space station.

You're all broiled in the legality and correctness of holding it one place or another and missing the intent.

Don't you think the batarians are worried that Shepard being tried by humans on human turf is just begging for a mistrial?

They would rather try Shepard on Kar'shan with their own court system. They can't know for certain that the humans will play fair. Besides, the crime happened in batarian space, not Alliance or Council space.

Ideally, the Citadel, a neutral ground, should be used.

Modifié par leonia42, 01 avril 2011 - 07:07 .

[Weskerr]

leonia42 wrote...

Weskerr wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

piemanz wrote...

The Alliance is a human entity and Earth is the human homeworld. Is that so hard to understand?

The 13 colonies were the property of the British Crown and England was the homeland of the American colonists. Now the Unites States is an independent nation and like it or not, the senior partner in the long standing Anglo-American alliance.

Is that so hard to understand?

However, the Alliance is not an independent nation. That's where the similarities between it and the orginal 13 American colonies and Britain end.

*facepalm*

Nobody said it was an independent nation. We're saying it GOVERNS Earth and the colonies. It's the Motherland, whereas Earth and all the colonies, are its children. Earth just happens to be the eldest of those children. Earth and the colonies have representatives in the System Alliance Parliament. Which convenes on Arcturus Station. Where they pass laws. For Earth. And the Colonies. On Arcturus Station.

You could have saved from smacking yourself in the face if you understood my point. Zulu was making an analogy between Earth and the Alliance and Britain and the original 13 American colonies. He made this analogy because he wanted to point out that it's possible for a branch-off of a major power to become a major power in and of itself, and also grow more powerful than the power it originally branched from.

Now, I was pointing out that this analogy doesn't hold because the Alliance is not an independent power, like the 13 American colonies eventually became. It's still answerable to the powers of Earth, which by and large are the most powerful members of the Alliance. Without Earth, there would be no Alliance.

Modifié par Weskerr, 01 avril 2011 - 07:08 .

[Almostfaceman]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Divided, but working together through the Alliance.

And that's why the Alliance at Arcterus should trial Shepard, Earth has nothing to do with galactic politics except for being an icon and supplying the Alliance. Shepard being trialed by the United States or whatever just doesn't work when the crime is something that happened with the Batarians and he's being trialed by the SA.

Earth isn't that important when you consider the scale of galactic politics.

Wrong, the Alliance IS Earth working together.  Earth was first, and birthed the Alliance.  Again, you can't say that Earth isn't important regarding politics because that contradicts exactly what the codex says about Mass Effect state of affairs:

The homeworld and capital of humanity is entering a new golden age. The resource wealth of a dozen settled colonies and a hundred industrial outposts flows back to Earth, fueling great works of industry, commerce, and art. 

Now if Earth isn't important anymore, how are they getting their hands on resources from the outposts?  Why does the codex call it the homeworld and capital?  Earth is the political center, Arcturus is an administrative capital for the Alliance - and the Alliance is the divided nations working together.  Colonies and outposts come from Earth.

[Leonia]

Fair enough, Weskerr.

[Almostfaceman]

Nashiktal wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Almostface doesnt know how to read it seems.

Read this:

The homeworld and capital of humanity is entering a new golden age. The resource wealth of a dozen settled colonies and a hundred industrial outposts flows back to Earth, fueling great works of industry, commerce, and art. 

I did. You however failed to read the rest of the text. So you are invalid until you read it properly.

You've just said absolutely nothing.  Congratulations.  Feel free to point out what I didn't read properly when you feel like making a point.

[Zulu_DFA]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Reaf this:

Arcturus Station is the gateway to Sol, a 5-kilometer diameter space station at the trailing Lagrange
point of the gas giant Themis. Construction on Arcturus Station began in 2151 and concluded in 2162. It
was inaugurated in 2156, and has served as the military and political headquarters of the Systems
Alliance from the First Contact War until the present.

The codex still calls Earth the capital of humanity.

And the Codex still calls the Arcturus Station the capital of the Systems Alliance.

The Alliance certainly doesn't derive its power from the tiny colonies

Certainly.

it gets its power from Earth.  

No. The Systems Alliance draws its power from the military might, strategic positioning and the economic expediency.

Earth established Arcturus station.

And the Systems Alliance claimed it, after it kicked the Turain butt on Shanxi without Earth's sanction.