1529 réponses à ce sujet

[piemanz]

The point is not wether Earth is the highest human power.The point is what is going to look best to appease the batarians.This is the WHOLE point of the trial in the first place.Theres a very good chance that the batarians have no idea how our political system works so it would make sense that you hold the trial on the human homeworld for maximum political points.

[Zulu_DFA]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Of course not, but read again the codex - earth is the central hub

No. Arcturus is the hub. It has 4 Mass Relays, connecting it to 4 different systems. Earth (Sol) has just one.

Almostfaceman wrote...

- resources from the colonies and outposts flow into earth.

That's right. Because Earth has 11.4 billion of lazy bodies, 11.3 billion of which are most probably on social welfare programs. And they all want to eat in the 22nd century.

Almostfaceman wrote...

The vast majority - right now - of resources comes from humanity's largest population and resource - Earth.

You have to finally decide, man. Do the resources go to Earth, or come from it?

[HunterX6]

 would love to see earth since the first game, tired of seeing the citadel and stations.....

[Weskerr]

A political-economic pact for collective colonial security, the Alliance is the central galactic institution of
human society.

The Systems Alliance is the representative body of Earth
and all human colonies in Citadel space. Backed by Earth's most
powerful nations, the Alliance has become humanity's military,
exploratory, and economic spearhead. While the Alliance is relatively
new to the galactic community, it has already made a name for itself,
gaining humans an embassy on the Presidium. The Alliance is governed by a
parliament based at Arcturus Station; the station also serves as the
Alliance's capital.

First quoted text is from Zulu_DFA and second Almostfaceman. They are both from codexes in the game, yet they seem to contradict each other. But taken as a whole, they actually compliment each other. If the Systems Alliance is " the central galactic institution of human society" and is also "the reprenstative body of Earth..." then Earth's respresentative body (Systems Alliance) is the central galatic institution of human society. So Earth does have a major political influence on the Alliance, even if the Alliance is very powerful.

Let's look at it this way: If the power behind the Alliance is its military, then where does its military receive its funding from? The answer has to be colonies of Earth and Earth itself. Also, if the Alliance has it's own parliament, who makes up that parliament? The answer must be powers from colonies of Earth and Earth itself. So, it's apparent that Earth wields significant political power.

Modifié par Weskerr, 01 avril 2011 - 07:53 .

[Nashiktal]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Depend on Earth? For what? All the resources come from colonies.

Also the Earth nations are not working together. The alliance came from their various space programs, but the nations are no longer tied to the Aliiance outside of being part of humanity as a whole.

Divided nations work together all the time.  Look at Britian and the U.S.  The Alliance is a bureaucracy formed by these nations as a mechanism for them to work together.

No, the Alliance does not get the vast majority of its manpower and resources from the tiny colonies.  Our largest colony has 5 million people.  Also, per the codex that states that Earth is humanity's capital - it also states that resources from the colonies and the outposts flow into Earth.

Yes. Three for four nations do work together often to deal with other overarching problems. Usually against OTHER countries that are causing the problem! Hell Earth couldn't even decide what to do during an alien invasion against its territory. 

Why? BECAUSE THEY WERE BICKERING AMONGST THEMSELVES.

Who saved the day? THE ALLIANCE INDEPENDANT OF EARTH.

[Almostfaceman]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

The Alliance will trial them.  The Alliance represents the nations of Earth.  Hackett says clearly the trial will be on Earth.  There you have it.

The Alliance represents humanity as a whole in space.
Shepard does something that impacts another species and is considered a crime that should be punished for.
Shepard should be trialed in space by the people in charge for humanity in space.
Not by Earth which has no ties to the Systems Alliance except for supplies and has no ties to space or humanity as a whole.

Those people in charge of humanity in space also reside on Earth.  

No ties to the system Alliance except supplies?  Supplies is what gives the Alliance its military power.  Otherwise it's just a metal building in space.

[Zulu_DFA]

piemanz wrote...

The point is not wether Earth is the highest human power.The point is what is going to look best to appease the batarians.

No, it doesn't. The best what would appease the Batarians is clubbing Shepard to death at his Torfan/Elysium/Akuze memorial.

Short of that, the Alliance has to maintain proper procedure for the trial to be legit.

[GuardianAngel470]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Of course not, but read again the codex - earth is the central hub

No. Arcturus is the hub. It has 4 Mass Relays, connecting it to 4 different systems. Earth (Sol) has just one.

Almostfaceman wrote...

- resources from the colonies and outposts flow into earth.

That's right. Because Earth has 11.4 billion of lazy bodies, 11.3 billion of which are most probably on social welfare programs. And they all want to eat in the 22nd century.

Almostfaceman wrote...

The vast majority - right now - of resources comes from humanity's largest population and resource - Earth.

You have to finally decide, man. Do the resources go to Earth, or come from it?

What?! 4 relays? Where the heck is that said? Seriously, 4 relays in one system? Or do you really mean a secondary relay that links to 4 other systems?

Cuz that would be a huge waste of resources, putting 4 relays in one system.

EDIT: Both. Food, consumer products, military products, and the like other than warships which likely have to be built in space, come FROM Earth.

Raw materials like seed, metals, and Eezo GO TO Earth. It's called manufacturing. You send in raw materials, sometimes from mines a great distance from the factory, and the factory produces products.

As an example, a colony protected by the Alliance sends mined platinum to Earth. From this platinum, Earth produces sniper rifles and shotguns.

Earth isn't a black hole for resources, its a manufacturer.

Modifié par GuardianAngel470, 01 avril 2011 - 08:00 .

[Nashiktal]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

The Alliance will trial them.  The Alliance represents the nations of Earth.  Hackett says clearly the trial will be on Earth.  There you have it.

The Alliance represents humanity as a whole in space.
Shepard does something that impacts another species and is considered a crime that should be punished for.
Shepard should be trialed in space by the people in charge for humanity in space.
Not by Earth which has no ties to the Systems Alliance except for supplies and has no ties to space or humanity as a whole.

Those people in charge of humanity in space also reside on Earth.  

No ties to the system Alliance except supplies?  Supplies is what gives the Alliance its military power.  Otherwise it's just a metal building in space.

The people in charge of the humans in space... Live in space. They are called the ALLIANCE. Earth doesn't tell the Alliance what to do, they yell and scream at each other until the Alliance tells them what THEY are going to do. The ALLIANCE makes decisions for humanity on a galactic level.

[piemanz]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

piemanz wrote...

The point is not wether Earth is the highest human power.The point is what is going to look best to appease the batarians.

No, it doesn't. The best what would appease the Batarians is clubbing Shepard to death at his Torfan/Elysium/Akuze memorial.

Short of that, the Alliance has to maintain proper procedure for the trial to be legit.

So, you're saying the HUMAN Alliance would not have a facility on the HUMAN HOMEWORLD to host a trial?....i'm sorry you're crazy.

[Almostfaceman]

Nashiktal wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Depend on Earth? For what? All the resources come from colonies.

Also the Earth nations are not working together. The alliance came from their various space programs, but the nations are no longer tied to the Aliiance outside of being part of humanity as a whole.

Divided nations work together all the time.  Look at Britian and the U.S.  The Alliance is a bureaucracy formed by these nations as a mechanism for them to work together.

No, the Alliance does not get the vast majority of its manpower and resources from the tiny colonies.  Our largest colony has 5 million people.  Also, per the codex that states that Earth is humanity's capital - it also states that resources from the colonies and the outposts flow into Earth.

Yes. Three for four nations do work together often to deal with other overarching problems. Usually against OTHER countries that are causing the problem! Hell Earth couldn't even decide what to do during an alien invasion against its territory. 

Why? BECAUSE THEY WERE BICKERING AMONGST THEMSELVES.

Who saved the day? THE ALLIANCE INDEPENDANT OF EARTH.

Again, I point out this "independence" you're talking about is merely technical when speaking of its relations with one particular country or another.  The Alliance is all the seperate countries coming together and coming up with a solution.  It worked.  It was Earth projecting its power in space.  The Alliance utilized Earth built spaceships and Earth trained soldiers and Earth grown food.

[Zulu_DFA]

Weskerr wrote...

A political-economic pact for collective colonial security, the Alliance is the central galactic institution of
human society.

The Systems Alliance is the representative body of Earth
and all human colonies in Citadel space. Backed by Earth's most
powerful nations, the Alliance has become humanity's military,
exploratory, and economic spearhead. While the Alliance is relatively
new to the galactic community, it has already made a name for itself,
gaining humans an embassy on the Presidium. The Alliance is governed by a
parliament based at Arcturus Station; the station also serves as the
Alliance's capital.

First quoted text is from Zulu_DFA and second Almostfaceman. They are both from codexes in the game,

Not true, the second quote comes from the MEWiki, and is a half-assed compilation of the Codex entries, to which MEWiki doesn't even bother make references to. So yeah, maybe Almostface was the one to put it on the MEWiki in the first place, so yeah...

[Almostfaceman]

Nashiktal wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

The Alliance will trial them.  The Alliance represents the nations of Earth.  Hackett says clearly the trial will be on Earth.  There you have it.

The Alliance represents humanity as a whole in space.
Shepard does something that impacts another species and is considered a crime that should be punished for.
Shepard should be trialed in space by the people in charge for humanity in space.
Not by Earth which has no ties to the Systems Alliance except for supplies and has no ties to space or humanity as a whole.

Those people in charge of humanity in space also reside on Earth.  

No ties to the system Alliance except supplies?  Supplies is what gives the Alliance its military power.  Otherwise it's just a metal building in space.

The people in charge of the humans in space... Live in space. They are called the ALLIANCE. Earth doesn't tell the Alliance what to do, they yell and scream at each other until the Alliance tells them what THEY are going to do. The ALLIANCE makes decisions for humanity on a galactic level.

They may live in space temporarily while on duty - like a navy man on an aircraft carrier or frigate - but the vast majority of them have a home on Earth.  The Alliance has not spurned Earth, it IS Earth.  It is just an independent political organization built to facilitate cooperation between the individual nation states.

[Almostfaceman]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Weskerr wrote...

A political-economic pact for collective colonial security, the Alliance is the central galactic institution of
human society.

The Systems Alliance is the representative body of Earth
and all human colonies in Citadel space. Backed by Earth's most
powerful nations, the Alliance has become humanity's military,
exploratory, and economic spearhead. While the Alliance is relatively
new to the galactic community, it has already made a name for itself,
gaining humans an embassy on the Presidium. The Alliance is governed by a
parliament based at Arcturus Station; the station also serves as the
Alliance's capital.

First quoted text is from Zulu_DFA and second Almostfaceman. They are both from codexes in the game,

Not true, the second quote comes from the MEWiki, and is a half-assed compilation of the Codex entries, to which MEWiki doesn't even bother make references to. So yeah, maybe Almostface was the one to put it on the MEWiki in the first place, so yeah...

Roflmao 

[Dave of Canada]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

It comes down to how it appears, not what is logically or legally correct. The Alliance can hold the trial on Earth just as well as it can hold it on Arcturus station but it is Earth that the Batarians recognize as the source of their problems, not Arcturus station.

Proof of this? I'd believe they'd feel more necessary to attack the Systems Alliance considering they were furious at the Systems Alliance when it started colonizing planets where the Batarians were moving in and they responded with aggression by attacking the strongest Systems Alliance colony that operates with the other species and then the second strongest colony in Bringing Down the Sky.

[Zulu_DFA]

piemanz wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

piemanz wrote...

The point is not wether Earth is the highest human power.The point is what is going to look best to appease the batarians.

No, it doesn't. The best what would appease the Batarians is clubbing Shepard to death at his Torfan/Elysium/Akuze memorial.

Short of that, the Alliance has to maintain proper procedure for the trial to be legit.

So, you're saying the HUMAN Alliance would not have a facility on the HUMAN HOMEWORLD to host a trial?....i'm sorry you're crazy.

I'm saying that there is no point for the United States to bring somebody to a trial or a court martial to Great Britain from elsewhere, even though both states have English as their official language, and the US has military installations in Britain.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 01 avril 2011 - 08:02 .

[FeralEwok]

Shepard's trial...IF he is even put on trial...would most likely not be held on Earth regardless of this sub arguement over who is in charge of the alliance.

For one people keep mentioning his spectre status, now while he answers directly to the Council and has what is basically diplomatic immunity that does not mean he is free to do as he pleases. Diplomats in the past have gotten away with various crime or at the least have managed to avoid trial within the country the have offended and then recieved a trial within their OWN country. Yes you could argue its biased but many of said diplomats were actually convicted of their crimes albeit less harsh of a sentance. To not do so would shed a negative light on the country or government they represent.

If people knew Shepard was behind the events of Arrival and called for the council to do something about it they couldnt defend him because doing so would mean they would have to defend that he did all of this to delay the reaper invasion which they have dismissed. So now the council would appear to have a rogue spectre who is off destroying systems due to an "imaginary" enemy.

None of this could matter though if you take into account two things 1.) Shepard could have turned down readmission and 2.) His readmission into the spectres was done in a room via a hologram of the council and anderson/udina. Vesir knew about his reinstated status but she's a spectre too....ultimately the only people who really know about his current status are the people who work for the Council. All they have to do is simply deny that they took him back and that he has been working with Cerberus.

That seems more likely of them because they have done their best since ME1 to say/do/believe the opposite of whatever Shepard has claimed. He may be the protagonist of this series but to the council he is just another one of their minions and they can easily burn him and disavow any and all connections to him after he came back from the dead....try finding that in judicial history

[Nashiktal]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

The Alliance will trial them.  The Alliance represents the nations of Earth.  Hackett says clearly the trial will be on Earth.  There you have it.

The Alliance represents humanity as a whole in space.
Shepard does something that impacts another species and is considered a crime that should be punished for.
Shepard should be trialed in space by the people in charge for humanity in space.
Not by Earth which has no ties to the Systems Alliance except for supplies and has no ties to space or humanity as a whole.

Those people in charge of humanity in space also reside on Earth.  

No ties to the system Alliance except supplies?  Supplies is what gives the Alliance its military power.  Otherwise it's just a metal building in space.

The people in charge of the humans in space... Live in space. They are called the ALLIANCE. Earth doesn't tell the Alliance what to do, they yell and scream at each other until the Alliance tells them what THEY are going to do. The ALLIANCE makes decisions for humanity on a galactic level.

They may live in space temporarily while on duty - like a navy man on an aircraft carrier or frigate - but the vast majority of them have a home on Earth.  The Alliance has not spurned Earth, it IS Earth.  It is just an independent political organization built to facilitate cooperation between the individual nation states.

It is at this point that I question that you even played ME1. Go replay it, and go to the sidequest during the shanxi protest, and talk to the man looking to be reelected. To be elected he has to live in space, and constantly moving around at that.

[Almostfaceman]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

piemanz wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

piemanz wrote...

The point is not wether Earth is the highest human power.The point is what is going to look best to appease the batarians.

No, it doesn't. The best what would appease the Batarians is clubbing Shepard to death at his Torfan/Elysium/Akuze memorial.

Short of that, the Alliance has to maintain proper procedure for the trial to be legit.

So, you're saying the HUMAN Alliance would not have a facility on the HUMAN HOMEWORLD to host a trial?....i'm sorry you're crazy.

I'm saying that there is no point for the United States to host a trial or a cour martial on the soil of Great Britain, even though both states have English as their official language.

The alliance has facilites on Earth, so clearly this analogy doesn't hold water. 

[Almostfaceman]

Nashiktal wrote...

It is at this point that I question that you even played ME1. Go replay it, and go to the sidequest during the shanxi protest, and talk to the man looking to be reelected. To be elected he has to live in space, and constantly moving around at that.

Do you know what "vast majority" means?  11 billion humans on Earth.  Most of the humans in space are from Earth.  There is no other habitat that comes anywhere remotely close to Earth's population.

Modifié par Almostfaceman, 01 avril 2011 - 08:05 .

[Leonia]

Resources are more powerful than bodies.

[Zulu_DFA]

FeralEwok wrote...

Shepard's trial...IF he is even put on trial...would most likely not be held on Earth

I sure hope so, but, given a certain Hackett's line in the "Arrival" DLC and knowing BioWare, I'm worried.

[GuardianAngel470]

Dave of Canada wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

It comes down to how it appears, not what is logically or legally correct. The Alliance can hold the trial on Earth just as well as it can hold it on Arcturus station but it is Earth that the Batarians recognize as the source of their problems, not Arcturus station.

Proof of this? I'd believe they'd feel more necessary to attack the Systems Alliance considering they were furious at the Systems Alliance when it started colonizing planets where the Batarians were moving in and they responded with aggression by attacking the strongest Systems Alliance colony that operates with the other species and then the second strongest colony in Bringing Down the Sky.

It's an extrapolation based on their proximity (or lack thereof) and human tendency as well as other in-game sources. What they're angry at is humanity. The alliance is is just the military arm to them, as evidenced by their religious protests (you sir are a blight) and their ads (another human colony has been attacked. We'd like to congratulate those responsible).

Obviously there isn't much content on the Batarians, but the feeling I get from the above examples as well as even Elysium and BDtS is that they just hate humans.

The human tendency part would be the tendency to not try to understand that which you hate. In most cases, the more you understand about something or someone, the less capable of hate you are. What I hear from those two examples is hate, and that makes me think that they haven't bothered to distinguish between humanity and the SA.

[SergeySW]

http://social.biowar...5/index/6881095

[Almostfaceman]

leonia42 wrote...

Resources are more powerful than bodies.

Resources are produced by "bodies".  More bodies building parts, more bodies making food, more bodies to pilot ships, more bodies to take out the garbage, etc.