1529 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave666]

Elite Midget wrote...

Please. Here, I'll make it simple for you since you don't understand logic.

ME1 - Citadel is the only fast way to the Universe for the Reapers.
Arrival - Retconned into the Citdal being one of the many ways they can arrive in the Universe in a matter of days.

I tell you what Elite, find me one source that categorically says that the Citadel was the ONLY way that the Reapers could arrive and I will tip my hat to you.

[Thompson family]

Elite Midget wrote...

Please. Here, I'll make it simple for you since you don't understand logic.

ME1 - Citadel is the only fast way to the Universe for the Reapers.
Arrival - Retconned into the Citdal being one of the many ways they can arrive in the Universe in a matter of days.

Un, two years, EM.

Shepard was dead for two years after the Battle of the Citadel. The Reapers have been travelling to the Alpha Relay for at least that long.

Modifié par Thompson family, 01 avril 2011 - 07:51 .

[piemanz]

Elite Midget wrote...

Please. Here, I'll make it simple for you since you don't understand logic.

ME1 - Citadel is the only fast way to the Universe for the Reapers.
Arrival - Retconned into the Citdal being one of the many ways they can arrive in the Universe in a matter of days.

No, the Citadel is the only way they can come straight from darkspace to the citadel.The Alpha relay is just another relay.It just so happens it's the first relay the can reach on their current path.

Modifié par piemanz, 01 avril 2011 - 07:51 .

[Zulu_DFA]

piemanz wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

If it hurts you that I speak in a logical manner than maybe these forums aren't for you.

What you said is in no way logical Elite.  Nowhere in ME:1 or ME:2 is it stated that the Reapers CANNOT get here without using the Citadel. All we are told is that the Reapers usually use it to get straight to the seat of power to take them out and disable all of the Relays and Communications.  That is all.  The fact that this plan failed and that the Reapers resorted to plan B (fly there) is in no way a Retcon.

In fact the very last thing shep says at the end of ME1 is "the reapers are coming", i mean serioulsy.

"the Reapers are still out there", actually

[Elite Midget]

Dave666 wrote...

I tell you what Elite, find me one source that categorically says that the Citadel was the ONLY way that the Reapers could arrive and I will tip my hat to you.

Mass Effect 1. It appears you need to replay it again before you wish to clash in the debateing arena.

[Thompson family]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Thompson family wrote...

Shepard either has to be tried at Washington, D.C. or Guantanamo?

[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/sideways.png[/smilie]

Well, since Cerberus is considered a Space Al Qaeda, some kind of Space Guantanamo would make sense. As for the publicity, there you have the Extranet and the Citadel News with Emily Wong.

Uh, OK.

[Dave666]

Elite Midget wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

I tell you what Elite, find me one source that categorically says that the Citadel was the ONLY way that the Reapers could arrive and I will tip my hat to you.

Mass Effect 1. It appears you need to replay it again before you wish to clash in the debateing arena.

Thats funny because I'm on a second playthrough of ME:1 as we speak and you are wrong.

[piemanz]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

piemanz wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

If it hurts you that I speak in a logical manner than maybe these forums aren't for you.

What you said is in no way logical Elite.  Nowhere in ME:1 or ME:2 is it stated that the Reapers CANNOT get here without using the Citadel. All we are told is that the Reapers usually use it to get straight to the seat of power to take them out and disable all of the Relays and Communications.  That is all.  The fact that this plan failed and that the Reapers resorted to plan B (fly there) is in no way a Retcon.

In fact the very last thing shep says at the end of ME1 is "the reapers are coming", i mean serioulsy.

"the Reapers are still out there", actually

[Almostfaceman]

Elite Midget wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

I tell you what Elite, find me one source that categorically says that the Citadel was the ONLY way that the Reapers could arrive and I will tip my hat to you.

Mass Effect 1. It appears you need to replay it again before you wish to clash in the debateing arena.

Nope, ME1 ends with Shepard anticipating the arrival of the Reapers at some point.  Clearly he doesn't agree with you that the Citadel was the only way to arrive.

[Thompson family]

Elite Midget wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

I tell you what Elite, find me one source that categorically says that the Citadel was the ONLY way that the Reapers could arrive and I will tip my hat to you.

Mass Effect 1. It appears you need to replay it again before you wish to clash in the debateing arena.

Uh, pardon me, but as I recall the meeting between the Council and my Shep at the end of ME1, Shep categorically stated that the Reapers are still out there and are still coming. This would be the part just after he stopped them from coming through the Citadel.

Edited P.S. Thanks for the YouTube link above, piemanz

Modifié par Thompson family, 01 avril 2011 - 07:59 .

[piemanz]

Elite Midget wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

I tell you what Elite, find me one source that categorically says that the Citadel was the ONLY way that the Reapers could arrive and I will tip my hat to you.

Mass Effect 1. It appears you need to replay it again before you wish to clash in the debateing arena.

Read this thread then come back with your supiriority complex.

Modifié par piemanz, 01 avril 2011 - 07:58 .

[celuloid]

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...

[quote]celuloid wrote...

I hail from Europe and I decided to write something about government institutions in my country, just for you.
We have parliament, president, prime minister (head of government) and bunch of ministers who lead their departments. All of these people and institutions reside in our capital, as does every other government agency and bureau. I wonder if you can guess which important institution I omitted? Yes, our Supreme Court DOES NOT reside in capital city.
[/quote]
That's outstanding, but Shepard has nothing to do "his country's" supreme court, before "his country'"s military is done with him.



[quote]celuloid wrote...

People, you are not experts in galactic law, just as you are not experts in law system of my country. Stop jumping to conclusions about where trial should take place and leave it to authors.
[/quote]
Look, the authors, of course, can pull any kind of stuff out of their collective ass, and, unlike the case of the MEWiki editors, it will become canon as soon as it is published, but it'll still be bad writing. So far, there has been absolutely no indication whatsovever that the officers of the Systems Alliance Navy, who either are of have formerly been the Citadel Council's Spectres must be tried on Earth of which the Systems Alliance gained independence some 30 years ago for the alleged crimes they commited all over the Galaxy except Earth.
[/quote]

And what is the argument for trial on a military base? Are not there any other interesting locales, like, I dunno, Earth?
Shepard is definitely not marine anymore, afaik nobody told me I should come to debrief.

[quote][quote]celuloid wrote...

As you could see, nothing is set in stone in actual life. It is perfectly normal if trial with Shepard won't take place on Arcturus station. Nobody wants to see it anyway. We all wanted to take a look at 22nd century Earth and when they want to show us, a bunch of whiners steps in and fills 20 pages with criticism.
[/quote]
And here I thought the whiner was you, pal, since you whined so much how you wanted to see Earth, that BioWare has listened to you. That doesn't change the fact, that setting the trial on Earth for absolutely no reason, except just to appease you, is, objectively, a bad idea.[/quote]

No, you are whiner. We might play this game all day long, but I did not make dozen of posts in this thread.

[quote]
[quote]celuloid wrote...
[quote][quote]
Just for your information:

The Earth is just a piece of molten iron covered with rock and a little H2O. It can't own any problems.

As for the Mankind, as soon as it lefts its "craddle", it'll spread its domain to any such piece of rock it manages to claim, establishing new cultural, economical and political realities that you guys seem to be incapable of grasping, but which any real sci-fi is supposed to be all about. Therefore, it's simply a matter of difference between the good sci-fi, and a cheap moneygrab product.

The Humanity, as a Council race, is supposed to solve its problems via established institutions such as the Council and the Systems Alliance, and not by "going to Earth".
[/quote][/quote]
I always imagined humanity as a fledgling species and not masters of the universe. It makes total sense that Earth has still important status, given 3000+ years of own culture compared to ~30 years of alien contact. But perhaps we did not play the same game.
[/quote]
Even the aliens in Mass Effect know that we Humans think everything 10 years old is obsolete.
[/quote]

Probably all I wanted to say was: Do not imply Mass Effect is cheap moneygrab product, please. And also: Earth is not yet little blue planet we forgot about long ago.

[quote][quote]celuloid wrote...

Besides, if someone thinks about Asari center of power, he means Thessia. With Turians, it is Palaven. Not some military space station built in early stages of human expansion to secure foothold, with population of 45000. My neighborhood is larger.
[/quote]
How many battleships capable of firing an equivalent of the Hiroshima bomb every couple of seconds are docked in your neighborhood, may I ask? Is there a government body that controls territories distanced over hundreds of light years away from it? [/quote]
[/quote]

How many US aircraft carriers are docked in naval yards?

[quote][quote]celuloid wrote..
[quote][quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...
[quote]jamesp81 wrote...

If Earth is destroyed, humanity is finished as a galactic power.  Done, over, dead, gone.  Bekenstein (the planet you visit in Kasumi's LM) is described as being one of humanity's most populous colonies.  It's population is 5.4 million or so.  You waste Earth, you kill about 98% of the human race.

That's a completely lametacular storyline.
[/quote]
Not true.

The numbers are irrelevant. For example, the Geth are just automated machinery with not a single living operator, and still are quite powerful.

With the Earth purged, the Alliance will come out only stronger, if the major Human colonies and indusrtrial/mining outposts are left unscathed.
[/quote][/quote]
Are you comparing us to automatons and military capacity we don't know anything about? You surely wanted to compare us to quarians, who are going slowly extinct after they lost their homeworld.
[/quote]
They are going extinct becasut they are losers, and lost not only their homeworld but all other colonies and have never settled anywhere else. That's not what I'm speacking about. I'm speaking about how a bunch of young buoyant colonies under the leasdership of determined rulers can fare a lot better than the same thing but burdened by the old fat lifesucking Earth.[/quote]

You know, Saren was right, your species really needs to learn its place.

[quote][quote]celuloid wrote...

And Alliance will come out stronger? What are you smoking? I want it too. My point is, 90% of people dead (or more, humanity is still concentrated on Earth) means struggle for survival.[/quote]
Nope. You're thinking in categories so retarded, that I can't hope to explain the whole thing to you. But try to think of it this way: there are 150 million people living in Nigeria and only 22.5 in Australia. Which nation fares better?
[/quote]

Well, would Australia fare any better if we killed 20 million Australians?

Modifié par celuloid, 01 avril 2011 - 08:05 .

[chester013]

What I gathered from the dialogue with Hackett, it would be a witch hunt to pacify the Batarians. They could claim bias from the Systems Alliance but on the other hand it could be seen that Humans aren't prepared to condemn this crime if Shep was tried on the Citadel. I think a trial on Earth is appropriate and will possibly tie into the invasion in some way, though I'd hope BW's writing team could do something less obvious.

[Nashiktal]

celuloid wrote...

And Alliance will come out stronger? What are you smoking? I want it too. My point is, 90% of people dead (or more, humanity is still concentrated on Earth) means struggle for survival.

Nope. You're thinking in categories so retarded, that I can't hope to explain the whole thing to you. But try to think of it this way: there are 150 million people living in Nigeria and only 22.5 in Australia. Which nation fares better?

Well, would Australia fare any better if we killed 20 million Australians?

Nope but Humanity would still be going strong. That analogy kinda proves his point actually.

Modifié par Nashiktal, 01 avril 2011 - 08:08 .

[Thompson family]

Since this thread appears to have a new and much more interesting topic — whether the Citadel was the only way for the Reapers to get here from Dark Space — I'd like to point out that just getting here is just one consideration. They also want to make an overwhelming surprise attack.

As Vigil explained in ME1 (and as Sovereign itself said on Virmire), civilizations evolve to use the Citadel. That's part of the Reaper's plan. That way, when they come through the Citadel, the high command is wiped out, the Mass Effect Relay system is under Reaper control. and the organic resistance suffers a crushing defeat at the outset.

I actually read the Codex this time, after my correction by Zulu_DFA on another point, and found that Kenson's research uncovered that the Alpha Relay is not like other relays. You can rapidly send ships to different locations directly from the Alpha Relay. With other relays, you go point to point to point.

This would also allow a devastating, widespread attack -- not as devastating as an attack through the Citadel, but still allowing the Reapers to attack multiple systems at once.

Just throwing that out there.

[Nashiktal]

You forgot to mention that the citadel holds all of the census Data, so that the reapers actually know where to go to do their culling. They already have planets and small holdouts slipping between their grasp between reapings, it would be bad if they went in blind.

[piemanz]

Thompson family wrote...

Since this thread appears to have a new and much more interesting topic — whether the Citadel was the only way for the Reapers to get here from Dark Space — I'd like to point out that just getting here is just one consideration. They also want to make an overwhelming surprise attack.

As Vigil explained in ME1 (and as Sovereign itself said on Virmire), civilizations evolve to use the Citadel. That's part of the Reaper's plan. That way, when they come through the Citadel, the high command is wiped out, the Mass Effect Relay system is under Reaper control. and the organic resistance suffers a crushing defeat at the outset.

I actually read the Codex this time, after my correction by Zulu_DFA on another point, and found that Kenson's research uncovered that the Alpha Relay is not like other relays. You can rapidly send ships to different locations directly from the Alpha Relay. With other relays, you go point to point to point.

This would also allow a devastating, widespread attack -- not as devastating as an attack through the Citadel, but still allowing the Reapers to attack multiple systems at once.

Just throwing that out there.

It's already been done to death.

Most of the Plothole theories have been rufuted here

Modifié par piemanz, 01 avril 2011 - 08:11 .

[chester013]

Thompson family wrote...

Since this thread appears to have a new and much more interesting topic — whether the Citadel was the only way for the Reapers to get here from Dark Space — I'd like to point out that just getting here is just one consideration. They also want to make an overwhelming surprise attack.

As Vigil explained in ME1 (and as Sovereign itself said on Virmire), civilizations evolve to use the Citadel. That's part of the Reaper's plan. That way, when they come through the Citadel, the high command is wiped out, the Mass Effect Relay system is under Reaper control. and the organic resistance suffers a crushing defeat at the outset.

I actually read the Codex this time, after my correction by Zulu_DFA on another point, and found that Kenson's research uncovered that the Alpha Relay is not like other relays. You can rapidly send ships to different locations directly from the Alpha Relay. With other relays, you go point to point to point.

This would also allow a devastating, widespread attack -- not as devastating as an attack through the Citadel, but still allowing the Reapers to attack multiple systems at once.

Just throwing that out there.

Then can this thread be closed and a new one started? Someone clicking on the title might be interested in that topic and instead get this

[Dave666]

Thompson family wrote...

Since this thread appears to have a new and much more interesting topic — whether the Citadel was the only way for the Reapers to get here from Dark Space — I'd like to point out that just getting here is just one consideration. They also want to make an overwhelming surprise attack.

As Vigil explained in ME1 (and as Sovereign itself said on Virmire), civilizations evolve to use the Citadel. That's part of the Reaper's plan. That way, when they come through the Citadel, the high command is wiped out, the Mass Effect Relay system is under Reaper control. and the organic resistance suffers a crushing defeat at the outset.

I actually read the Codex this time, after my correction by Zulu_DFA on another point, and found that Kenson's research uncovered that the Alpha Relay is not like other relays. You can rapidly send ships to different locations directly from the Alpha Relay. With other relays, you go point to point to point.

This would also allow a devastating, widespread attack -- not as devastating as an attack through the Citadel, but still allowing the Reapers to attack multiple systems at once.

Just throwing that out there.

I noticed that myself and thought it was interesting, though i will admit its a bit of a stretch for me.  Sure I can buy that the Reapers having done this whole Reaper Cycle for at the least 37 Million years they would have backup plans and it kind of makes sense that they would create such a Relay on the outskirts of the Galaxy (directly in their path).  As an idea itself i thought it wasn't bad, I just feel that it was a bit forced.  (Just an opinion)  As I said, from a story perspective it actually makes sense.  I do wonder where those receiving Relays are mind, would be curious.  If they all lead to the Major Species Homeworlds then thats a serious stretch because over 37 Million  years all life that you would like to Reap is on the same planet?  (Does that make sense?)

[Dave666]

chester013 wrote...
Then can this thread be closed and a new one started? Someone clicking on the title might be interested in that topic and instead get this

Thats a fair point and this should probably stay on topic.  It was my fault and I apologise, I've just been running into thread after thread of Elite screaming Retcon (Incorrectly) and it irritated me.  None the less, my apologies.

[GreenDragon37]

The Citadel was never the only way to reach the galaxy. It was the most strategic and convenient way. The Alpha Relay is not a retcon. The Reapers flew here and planned to use it as a last resort to conquering the galaxy in a way that doesn't put them in a stand-up fight. It's much more inefficient and less tactically sound than seizing the Citadel in a surprise attack, but they have no choice now. Their cover is blown and they'll have to take the galaxy the hard way.

[Khemical]

Late to the show, but here' s my 2cents:

I can see how Shepherd would be tried on Earth, if the Alliance brought charges against him for dishonorable conduct as an officer or genocide, terrorism (he is technically with Cerebus at this time) inciting war (if war with the Batarians breaks out) or some trumped up charge that would amount to making the Alliance and humanity look bad to the intergalactic community at large.

However, such a case would be difficult to prosecute in the middle of a planet-wide invasion by an ancient techno-organic species intent on galactic cleansing.

It would be more likely the Alliance would try and arrest him and then hand him over to the Council (or Batarians) as a sign of good faith.

Whatever the case, it would be really interesting to see Shepherd put on trial before either the Council or the Alliance. Then all the Normandy crew can come forward to speak on his behalf. Maybe make it a mission, and only 2 of the crew can accompany him to the trial and depending on if they are loyal or not it could affect the outcome.

If it's a positive outcome he gets to walk with possibly a confrontation with a Batarians outside the trial and a gunfight could even erupt.

Negative outcome and he has to make a break for it. Either they cause a distraction and he runs off in the shuttle, or you get a shooting sequence either against local security (Alliance or C-sec) or even better the same group of Batarians from the positive outcome.

There ya go, Bioware. 

[Thompson family]

chester013 wrote...


Then can this thread be closed and a new one started? Someone clicking on the title might be interested in that topic and instead get this

Etiher that, or somebody get it back on topic -- which was never a very strong one, really.

[vimpel]

Reapers attacked Earth

[Almostfaceman]

leonia42 wrote...

Zeratul20 wrote...

While I mean no offence to either of you, I'd just like to point this out: you guys DO realise you're all ranting about a fictional situation, concerning the judicial authority of a fictional government compared to the authority of quite a few OTHER fictional governments, etc, right?

While Bioware usually does a good job at fleshing out their settings, I don't think it's necessary to have such long-winded, slightly heated debates about it... It's just a story.

This is serious business! But yeah, I will acknowledge we've put a bit too much energy into this debate. Still, it does prove that healthy debates can still occur on the BSN without devolving into fits of "FIRE THE WRITERS" or "EA IS EVIL" or "THIS GAME IS BETTER THAN THAT GAME". I'm quite proud of the civility that has been kept with this discussion, even when people have vehemently disagreed with one another. Well-done, everybody. Except for those who were wrong (j/k!).

I never fool myself into thinking I can convince everyone that they have to agree with me.  For my part, I debate sometimes not necessarily to change my opponents mind.  Sometimes I continue the debate to give others food for thought.  I may be able to convince someone else, or the other side may be able to convince someone else.  It's all part of the fun.