1529 réponses à ce sujet

[Wulfram]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Please, explain, how the 11.4 billion lazy earthworms have been preventing the Batarians' rolling up our colonies since 2157.

By providing the overwhelming bulk of human industrial and economic capacity.  The Alliance wouldn't be able to pay for all those shiny dreadnoughts and cruisers on the back of a few backwater colonies.

Also, one of those lazy earthworms might be the one who turned into Shepard.

[Thompson family]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Really, of all the things you could latch onto and make a thread about, you choose this?

Why don't you make a new thread about Systems Alliance tax policies?

A tax policiy thread in April? With U.S. income tax deadline looming on April 15th? Shudder the thought.

[piemanz]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Yup. Losing the Earth entirely would finish off the human species. The Batarians would roll up our colonies on the edge of the Terminus systems. If we were lucky, we would become pets of the Turians.

Please, explain, how the 11.4 billion lazy earthworms have been preventing the Batarians' rolling up our colonies since 2157.

You seem like you have a distain for the human population of earth, and i think this is coloring your perception.You're argument all seems to stem with The Earth is not importand because it's full of lazy earthworms.

The Earth will allways be the most importand world for the human race, it's our motherland.Regardless of what your feeling about the human race are, you cant deny how important this planet is and always will be.

Modifié par piemanz, 01 avril 2011 - 11:11 .

[Whatever42]

Elite Midget wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Yup. Losing the Earth entirely would finish off the human species. The Batarians would roll up our colonies on the edge of the Terminus systems. If we were lucky, we would become pets of the Turians.

You're implying the colonies can't defend themselves and that the military is only on Earth? Or that the Citadel will le a Council Race get invaded by the Batarians which they already have a bad history with? Sure they wont protect the Alliance if they are the aggressors but they wont sit around if the Batarians start up a full fledged invasion on Humanity.

I didn't mean to imply. I meant to explicitly state!  Yes, a few million humans cannot stand against a nation of many billions of Batarians.

And yes, the council (aka Turians) can protect us. And then they can teach us to sit. And roll over. And fetch. We'd be pets.

[Zulu_DFA]

jbblue05 wrote...

Their will definently be a "baby boom" post Reaper war.

Don't forget, it's sci-fi, and it's definitely possible to clone people. Mass produce them. Like mechs, only living.

jbblue05 wrote...

The losses humanity suffer in losing Earth might be too steep of a hill to climb to compete with the major races, assuming the Reapers focused on humanity.

It is also worht mentionin, that, according to the Codex, that the Alliance military is extraordinarily efficient, compared to other militaries, due to the better emphasis on tactics, logistics, support, and fancy equipment, and lesser reliance on the manpower.

The Alliance needs strategic chechpoints to properly protect what's left of humanity.
This means they might have to abandon rich colonies, because other races like the Batarians or Krogan who may become stronger than the Alliance will attack the weakened Alliance..

Don't forget everyone that survives is going to be salvaging fancy Reaper tech.

And how does Earth's population factor in all this?

Oh yes, a few billion refugees on a ravaged planet is exactly what the Allaince will need in those troubled times.

jbblue05 wrote...

The Alliance would definitely go down, if it's military might is sacrificed in a premature engagment with the Reapers in an attempt to save Earth's population. Therefore, as soon as the Reapers strike at Earth, it's population must be written off as casualties, for the sake of the Alliance and not the least for the sake of galactic survival. It's damn shame, but it's war.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't.
Sacrifice the military or Sacrificing Earth.

It's war, so military objectives take priority.

jbblue05 wrote...

Either way the Alliance is going to be severely weakened. Arcturus Station leads to the Sol systems mass relay.  Alliance leadership and the Alliance's largest fleet will be destroyed by the Reapers.

If this is the case, then yes, the Alliance and Humanity is finished, unless, as you say, all other races take equal amount of damage. But it's not the population that determines the strenght of a state, it's the industrial output.

jbblue05 wrote...

Morality is going to be at an all-time low..

Or at an all-time high: We survived, we defeated the Devil, we're the Chosen Race. Fire up the propaganda machine!

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 01 avril 2011 - 11:15 .

[Whatever42]

Oh, and since I haven't commented on Zulu's original post yet, I probably should. Yes, I agree. If humans do put him on trial then it should be on Arcturus station. Earth makes little sense.

[Whatever42]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

It's war, so military objectives take priority.

Without Earth there is no humanity left to fight for. We'd be better off collaborating with the Reapers at that point so that the legacy of our species will live on.

Actually, I'm that petty and vindictive too. Screw you, galaxy. I'm taking you all with me!

[jbblue05]

Zulu_DFA wrote...


Don't forget, it's sci-fi, and it's definitely possible to clone people. Mass produce them. Like mechs, only living.

Judging from what Miranda tells you about cloning it isn't highly effevtive

And how does Earth's population factor in all this?

Oh yes, a few billion refugees on a ravaged planet is exactly what the Allaince will need in those troubled times.

Those few billion refugees can be armed  and be forced to "fuel" the Alliance war Machine.  Plus the women can have babies just in case the war with the Reapers takes generations.

more people=more soldiers

It's war, so military objectives take priority.

You have to feed your army right?

The Alliance has two fleets stationed near the relay connecting to Earth.
I'm guessing Earth is extremely important to the Alliance.

If this is the case, then yes, the Alliance and Humanity is finished, unless, as you say, all other races take equal amount of damage. But it's not the population that determines the strenght of a state, it's the industrial output.

All the other races will have advamced tech also.  They will also have a lot more people that they will dwarf the Alliance's industrial output many times over. 

Or at all-time high: We survived, we defeated the Devil, we're the Chosen Race. Fire up the propaganda machine!

Human dominance  FTW!

Modifié par jbblue05, 01 avril 2011 - 11:23 .

[Wereparrot]

Nashiktal wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

piemanz wrote...



It' still amazes me that you can't grasp the fact the the Systems Alliance is a human Alliance with Earth being the human homeworld.How you can honestly beleive that earth is not of still very significant importance is beyond me.

No we grasp that. That is all Earth is. The human homeworld, the starting point. However that is all Earth is. One big, non-resource producing "colony" that eats most of the resources sent to it, and continues to have individual nations bicker among themselves.

Earth is the Emperer to Japan's Shogun. The Queen to britains modern-day parliment.

Just to clarify: the queen still theoreticaly holds significant power. She retains power to dismiss the prime minister and disolve parliament, thus making her higher than the government.

And the Emperor of Japan ended WWII not the government. After Nagasaki and Hiroshima the Emperor countermanded the desire of the military to fight to the bitter end and surrendered.

Both of your examples were poorly chosen.

The qeen can't do anything and you know it. Technical power that can't be used is just as good as no power. The royal family is just a bunch of celeberities that do not do much outside of diplomacy.

Don't you believe it. Really. It can be used, and has been used.

[Whatever42]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Actually, I'm that petty and vindictive too. Screw you, galaxy. I'm taking you all with me!

I'm not fighting for the galaxy, I'm fighting for humanity. If saving humanity becomes impossible I won't fight for anyone else and would actively work against their survival.

Actually, that's why I know the Earth survives. Renegade Shepard is very human-centric - kill the Council, give TIM the Reaper, etc.  Paragon Shepard is all huggy with the galaxy - save the rachni, give the krogan the cure, save the council, screw TIM, etc.

A devestated humanity would clearly be at the mercy of their friends and renegade Shep has none. So since Bioware will not punish renegade like that, Earth cannot be destroyed.

[piemanz]

Saphra Deden wrote...

I wouldn't put it past them to punish Renegade like that. They punish us enough as it is with diminished content and the constant reinforcement that none of Renegade Shepard's sacrifices are actually necessary.

Wait, what?, How can you class having less NPC's in the game because you killed them all, as diminished content?

Modifié par piemanz, 01 avril 2011 - 11:32 .

[Whatever42]

Saphra Deden wrote...

I wouldn't put it past them to punish Renegade like that. They punish us enough as it is with diminished content and the constant reinforcement that none of Renegade Shepard's sacrifices are actually necessary.

...but, let's not turn this thread into a place where we **** and moan.

I just don't think Bioware would allow such a dark ending without also giving you a "Game Over" screen as well.

Nah, it won't be punishment. Think KotoR.

[Zulu_DFA]

[quote]Wulfram wrote...
[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...

Please, explain, how the 11.4 billion lazy earthworms have been preventing the Batarians' rolling up our colonies since 2157.
[/quote]
By providing the overwhelming bulk of human industrial and economic capacity.  The Alliance wouldn't be able to pay for all those shiny dreadnoughts and cruisers on the back of a few backwater colonies.

[/quote]
The overwhelming bulk of Alliance's industrial and economic capacity is spread across the Attican Traverse and the Skyllian Verge. And those shiny dreadnoughts and fighter carriers are mostly paid for by the export taxes from trade with the Asari Republics, that probably have have dozens of overpopulated planets such as Earth, requiring constant influx of Eezo, other raw materials, and quality food. Which kinda was the whole reason behind the Council's support for the speedy expansion of the Alliance.

See, Earth's significance shrinks even more!


[quote]Wulfram wrote...

Also, one of those lazy earthworms might be the one who turned into Shepard.
[quote]
That's right. The best humanity had to offer have already left Earth as sturdy hard-working colonists, brave marines, mad genuis scientists and cunning politicians and businessmen.


[quote]piemanz wrote...

You seem like you have a distain for the human population of earth, and i think this is coloring your perception.
[/quote]
No, it's the other way around. My perception is coloring my disdain. Although it's not so much as sneer. The earthworms aren't bad. They are just useless.


[quote]piemanz wrote...

You're argument all seems to stem with The Earth is not importand because it's full of lazy earthworms.
[/quote]
That, and it also lacks eezo.


[quote]piemanz wrote...

The Earth will allways be the most importand world for the human race, it's our motherland. Regardless of what your feeling about the human race are, you cant deny how important this planet is and always will be. [/quote]
It could be just as important if it wasn't a huge resource sink.

[Zulu_DFA]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Actually, I'm that petty and vindictive too. Screw you, galaxy. I'm taking you all with me!

I'm not fighting for the galaxy, I'm fighting for humanity. If saving humanity becomes impossible I won't fight for anyone else and would actively work against their survival.

Wow, that's pretty evil of you!

[piemanz]

Zulu_DFA wrote...


It could be just as important if it wasn't a huge resource sink.

But surely that shows just how important Earth really is.The very fact it's such a huge rescource sink shows the Earth requires a lot of rescources, because it's where everything happens.The rescources always flows towards the most powerful, which in this case is Earth.

Modifié par piemanz, 01 avril 2011 - 11:44 .

[Almostfaceman]

Zulu_DFA wrote...


The overwhelming bulk of Alliance's industrial and economic capacity is spread across the Attican Traverse and the Skyllian Verge.

Let's see these economic figures to back up these claims.  Or even a codex entry.

I have information that contradicts this claim here:

The Systems Alliance is the representative body of Earth and all human colonies in Citadel space. Backed by Earth's most powerful nations, the Alliance has become humanity's military, exploratory, and economic spearhead.

[Zulu_DFA]

Saphra Deden wrote...

However most of its economic might is Earth.

Source?

Saphra Deden wrote...

That's where most of the population is and that is where most of the resources dug up in the colonies go.

And the most resources that go to Earth are consumed for sustainance of that 11.4 billion population. it's not like all of them are assembly line workers though. I bet even those that are officially emplyed do some petty commerce or good-for-nothing services for the same kind of "consumer society" members.

If you read the Cerberus dossier at the Shadow-Broker's and the planet description in BDTS, it's clear that Terra Nova has become a major center main businees and industrial and center of the Alliance (which probably made it the target for Balak's terrorists)

Saphra Deden wrote...

Without it the core of the Alliance would die and humanity's teeth would be gone. We'd become a lesser race. We'd sure as hell never maintain our grip on the Citadel.

Humanity's teeth is the Alliance Navy. If you sacrifice it in hopes to save some Earth's dwellers, then yes, in the aftermath certain other races will be quick to prey on us in our misfortune and we'll have nothing to protect our interests with.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 01 avril 2011 - 11:57 .

[Zulu_DFA]

piemanz wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

It could be just as important if it wasn't a huge resource sink.

But surely that shows just how important Earth really is.The very fact it's such a huge rescource sink shows the Earth requires a lot of rescources, because it's where everything happens. The rescources always flows towards the most powerful, which in this case is Earth.

No, it only shows that there are 11.4 billion of spongers, who contribute nothing to Humanity's expansion in the Galaxy.

[piemanz]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

And the most resources that go to Earth are consumed for sustainance of that 11.4 billion population. it's not like all of them are assembly line workers though. I bet even those that are officially emplyed do some petty commerce or good-for-nothing services for the same kind of "consumer society" members.

This goes back to what i was saying earlier.You seem to have a distain for humanity, and this is coloring your thinking.When i think of rescources flowing to earth i think of industry and commerce. You seem to think of it as Mc Donalds and Pizza Hut.

Modifié par piemanz, 02 avril 2011 - 12:06 .