1529 réponses à ce sujet

[Almostfaceman]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Zulu, they are not leeching from you. They are the ones who spawned you in the first place. They financed you and continue to do so. They finance the colonies you so cherish because they have the money, people, and incentive. You don't have the people and you don't have the incentive. Who says you even have the money?

It is Earth who pays for your continued expansion and gives you the people to expand with because Earth benefits from it. Without them you won't be able to drive your own expansion. Cover your ears and scream about piracy all you like.

Once Earth is gone you will quickly lose the investments they entrusted to you.

With Earth gone you are going to keep getting weaker.

Aliens don't need to buy from you or invest in you. The Council was only ever interested because you had Earth had already helped you grow. Without that you won't grow and the Council won't care about you anymore. They might turn around and decide that maybe the batarians are a better investment.

QFT

[Almostfaceman]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Expanding where?

Upward and outward. Earth has a vested interest in developing new technologies to conserve space and fix the environment. It is also very interested in feeding its populations.

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Their problem, not mine.

My friend, that is the entire point. It won't be your problem because you won't have the means to do anything about it.

Saphra Deden wrote...

Their empires are too old. Their economy have stagnated.

It's still in better shape than yours and unlike you they have actual allies. You have Jack and ****, and not even a homeworld now.

Without fuel of its own the Alliance doesn't fuel S H I T.

A few millions for a colony is more than enough.

One colony? Don't set the bar too high now.

In the time it takes you to grow your population big enough to want to expand you'll have lost out to the competition.

QFT

[Zulu_DFA]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Zulu, they are not leeching from you. They are the ones who spawned you in the first place.

They spawned me and now they are leeching from me.

Saphra Deden wrote...

They financed you and continue to do so.

No they don't. I haven't seen a t-shirt labeled "Made in China" for years. It's all "Made on Terra Nova" now. With an attachment: "50% of the revenue from this item will go to the UN World Food Program on Earth".

Saphra Deden wrote...

They finance the colonies you so cherish because they have the money, people, and incentive. You don't have the people and you don't have the incentive. Who says you even have the money?

I have the industrial output. I produce more than I consume. They consume more than they produce. The difference they take away from me, motivating it by that they spawned me. But I'm stronger than they. I have the dreadnoughts and carriers. Therefore, they may go to hell.

Saphra Deden wrote...

It is Earth who pays for your continued expansion and gives you the people to expand with because Earth benefits from it. Without them you won't be able to drive your own expansion. Cover your ears and scream about piracy all you like.

Pays with what? With my own money? It's me who produces the value for that money, not they. It's me who produces the expansion.

Saphra Deden wrote...

Once Earth is gone you will quickly lose the investments they entrusted to you.

How? Who can take it away from me? My rich uncle is dead, and I'm the only heir. Mwahahaha!

Saphra Deden wrote...

With Earth gone you are going to keep getting weaker.

No, I'll put my uncle's money to good use. I won't have to spend it on medicine and gambling like my uncle used to.

Saphra Deden wrote...

Aliens don't need to buy from you or invest in you.

Just as they needed me when my uncle sent me out to find a job, they need me now. Probably even more, since, I have grown up and become stronger. Everybody likes to be friends with the strong.

Saphra Deden wrote...

The Council was only ever interested because you had Earth had already helped you grow.

The Council? You mean Udina? He is my right hand.

Saphra Deden wrote...

Without that you won't grow and the Council won't care about you anymore. They might turn around and decide that maybe the batarians are a better investment.

Batarians? You must be kidding.

[Zulu_DFA]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

They spawned me and now they are leeching from me.

By financing your continued expansion? That's like saying your parents are leeches because they spawned you and still help you pay bills but also ask you to visit them on holidays.

But they don't pay my bills. I pay theirs. And yes, now, all of a sudden, I have to visit them for the Holidays (see: OP) .[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

No they don't. I haven't seen a t-shirt labeled "Made in China" for years. It's all "Made on Terra Nova" now. With an attachment: "50% of the revenue from this item will go to the UN World Food Program on Earth".

Guess what? If the US disappeared China would be hurt, badly. Again you are not doing your argument any favors.

This is unsupported by the latest financial crisis data. China's economic grouth rate was barely hampered. All goods that weren't sold on export as intended, were realizaed on, guess what... internal market.

Saphra Deden wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

I have the dreadnoughts and carriers.

...because they help you pay for them.

One last time: all their money have value only because I produce stuff. Therefore they physically can't help me by giving me back a part of what I have given to them.

Saphra Deden wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Pays with what? With my own money? It's me who produces the value for that money, not they. It's me who produces the expansion.

They are the ones who give your goods value by being willing and eager to buy them. They produce the expansion because they pay for it and they supply it! Money, to have value, must be circulated.

Oh, I see now where the problem is. You think that you can speculate on the financial market to infinity. Good luck with that.

But this discussion is over.

Saphra Deden wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Batarians? You must be kidding.

I never thought I'd see the day, but when Zulu blew up Earth and ripped the heart out of the human empire he ceded the advantage to all of our rivals.

Geth do not infiltrate.





(That was a joke.)

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 02 avril 2011 - 03:17 .

[Randy1012]

I absolutely agree that Shepard should either be tried on the Citadel (if s/he is still a Spectre) or on Arcturus Station (if s/he isn't). Arcturus is the political heart of the Alliance, not Earth.

Frankly, I find all this emphasis on Earth and its increasing focus as the center of the Mass Effect universe (and in many other science fiction stories) to be troubling. I'm not interested in Earth. I grew up here. If I want to see Earth, I can step outside. I want to see Arcturus Station, and Palaven, and Thessia, and any other location THAT ISN'T EARTH.

However, blowing up Earth is just silly, for all the reasons previously stated by others.

Modifié par Randy1083, 02 avril 2011 - 03:22 .

[Almostfaceman]

Randy1083 wrote...

I absolutely agree that Shepard should either be tried on the Citadel (if s/he is still a Spectre) or on Arcturus Station (if s/he isn't). Arcturus is the political heart of the Alliance, not Earth.

Frankly, I find all this emphasis on Earth and its increasing focus as the center of the Mass Effect universe (and in many other science fiction stories) to be troubling. I'm not interested in Earth. I grew up here. If I want to see Earth, I can step outside. I want to see Arcturus Station, and Palaven, and Thessia, and any other location THAT ISN'T EARTH.

However, blowing up Earth is just silly, for all the reasons previously stated by others.

Well get ready to be disappointed 'cause according to the last DLC Arrival you're puttin' on your dress blue's and going to Earth.  Yeeee hawwww

[Randy1012]

Nooooooo!

I hate my dress blues.

[Orion1836]

Shepard's going to need a lawyer...

[celuloid]

Zulu, you really think Alliance fleets still exist during events in ME3 trailer?
Fleets' objective is to protect Earth and colonies. They obviously failed and goal of ME3 will be to unite other races who would be more or less willing to help you depending on how you treated them.
Which means if you lose all of Earth population, you won't have equipment and you won't have manpower. Good luck with your imperialistic goals then.

Modifié par celuloid, 02 avril 2011 - 07:52 .

[Leonia]

celuloid wrote...

Zulu, you really think Alliance fleets still exist during events in ME3 trailer?
Fleets' objective is to protect Earth and colonies. They obviously failed and goal of ME3 will be to unite other races who would be more or less willing to help you depending on how you treated them.
Which means if you lose all of Earth population, you won't have equipment and you won't have manpower. Good luck with your imperialistic goals then.

Screw Earth, I want those turian dreadnoughts on my team. If I have to sacrifice the homeworld to buy some time, I am not going to hesitate to do so. There are plenty of human colonies that produce goods and manpower to help me out in addition to the homeworlds and colonies of the other species. This is a galactic effort, stopping the Reapers. This "trial" shouldn't be happening at all on the eve of a galactic invasion.

I was a bit annoyed by the "put your dress blues on and head to Earth" line, not everyone has chosen to stick with the Alliance or Earth. What about everyone who supports Cerberus? What about the Spectre Shepards? They're going to need one hell of a good excuse to convince every Shepard that a trial on Earth makes sense.

[celuloid]

Yes, I think the main idea of ME games is collaboration and unity to overcome greatest threat ever.
I want to see Thessia, Palaven and all other homeworlds. And I don't want all this human supremacist, we are special and will recover in two days ****.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

I think the trial should be on Arcturus Station too, but put him on Earth is a good idea. See the reaper invasion live and on Shep's eyes and then a quick escape on the Normandy would give a hell of a good opening for ME3.

As for excuses to do so? Maybe he won't be charged by the System's Alliance, but Earth's government. That or some exception to the common rules that it would be taken on Ar. Station. It's up to the writers to not mess up with it. Or they will get lazy and assume doesn't know about Ar. Station.

[Ahriman]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

I think the trial should be on Arcturus Station too, but put him on Earth is a good idea. See the reaper invasion live and on Shep's eyes and then a quick escape on the Normandy would give a hell of a good opening for ME3.

Normandy flying through hundreds of Reapers intouched. I already can see plothole-threads.
I think Shepard should see Reapers in the beginning of the game, but if he will be on Earth, when Reapers attack, it will be too late.

As for excuses to do so? Maybe he won't be charged by the System's Alliance, but Earth's government.

Ahem,  'Earth's goverment' doesn't exist.

[Neo Hex Omega]

A trial makes sense to me, because unlike the activities of Saren, which had plenty of evidence to support his actions, Shepard has nothing. Even after Arrival, which was supposed to give of some kind of evidence of the Reaper threat, Shepard has nothing but his or her word to go on.

So, a batarian system is wiped out, Shepard says it was to stop the Reapers, but there is no proof. It makes him or her look even more crazy, which, on top of being associated with Cerberus, is enough reason to provoke some kind of trial. Where the trial takes place seems irrelevant, honestly. Perhaps Earth was deemed the safest place to hold it, in light of the Collector attacks. Doesn't matter.

[Zulu_DFA]

celuloid wrote...

Zulu, you really think Alliance fleets still exist during events in ME3 trailer?

Yes. The Reapers seem to fall out of FTL right above London. If their primary goal is to harvest Humanity, that makes sense, as long as they think the Galaxy can't resist them anyway. That means even the Lunar colony is untouched.

celuloid wrote...

Fleets' objective is to protect Earth and colonies. They obviously failed and goal of ME3 will be to unite other races who would be more or less willing to help you depending on how you treated them.

The Alliance fleets sit at Relay hubs - the Galactic chokepoints, like the Artcurus System. Since the Reapers bypassed it there was no engagement for the Alliance Fleets to get destroyed. And anyway how do you think the "other races" can help if the Alliance fleets got cut like butter?

What we need is a "super-weapon", a "virus" or some kind of "deus ex machina" (beings of light, maybe?) will.

celuloid wrote...

Which means if you lose all of Earth population, you won't have equipment and you won't have manpower. Good luck with your imperialistic goals then.

Thank you, and I assure you, my imperialistic goals will be more attainable than ever, if the Reapers are kind enough to get destoyed taking only Earth with them. Because 99% of my imperialistic equipment is off earth, and the excessive "manpower" is more of a burden than advantage.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 02 avril 2011 - 05:33 .

[Zulu_DFA]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

I think the trial should be on Arcturus Station too, but put him on Earth is a good idea. See the reaper invasion live and on Shep's eyes and then a quick escape on the Normandy would give a hell of a good opening for ME3.

Seeing it on the news while stranded without resources and on the run would be even beter.

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

As for excuses to do so? Maybe he won't be charged by the System's Alliance, but Earth's government.

Even if there was an "Earth's government" (which there isn't), Shepard wouldn't be answereing to it any more than to a Hanar government.

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

That or some exception to the common rules that it would be taken on Ar. Station. It's up to the writers to not mess up with it.

Damn straight.

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Or they will get lazy and assume doesn't know about Ar. Station.

This is most likely and annoys the hell out of me!!!

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 02 avril 2011 - 05:24 .

[CroGamer002]

Orion1836 wrote...

Shepard's going to need a lawyer...

He/she is so gonna lose.



Anyway let me spam my theoriy here ZULU.
You do that quite often.

[Fixers0]

Do you honestly expect Mass Effect 3 only written from your standpoint?

Shall i give you a quick anwser as to why Shepard's trial is on earth, Because for the Writers of ME3, Earth is much more important then artcurus station.

There is no need to get angry because the writers don't fully follow your theory's.

[Zulu_DFA]

Fixers0 wrote...

Because for the Writers of ME3, Earth is much more important then artcurus station.

No, the "Rule of Cool" is obviously more important than anything. So the writers guessed that it must be cool to "listen to the fans" who wanted to visit Earth as some point. But check the poll, they guessed wrong.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 02 avril 2011 - 05:41 .

[candidate88766]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Because for the Writers of ME3, Earth is much more important then artcurus station.

No, the "Rule of Cool" is obviously more important than anything. So the writers guessed that it must be cool to "listen to the fans" who wanted to visit Earth as some point. But check the poll, they guessed wrong.

The poll is only for where Shepard's trial should be, not whether people would like to visit Earth at some point at some point. Yes, it would probably make more sense Shepard to be trialed at the Citadel if he is being tired as a Spectre. For the record, this is where I feel the trial should be.

However, lets say the Alliance wants to try Shepard for the sake of appearances to the batarians. For something on the scale of killing 300,000 I think it makes sense that the Alliance may have to defer to the Haumn government in this matter (unless the Alliance is also the government and I've simply missed something). Also, Arcturus Station may not have a court on it 'suitable' for a trial of this magnitude. Finally, having the trial on Earth allows more publicity for it (wouldn't be allowed on a military station) that ensures that the Batarians and the wider glactic community see that the Alliance will in no way stand for Sherpard's behaviour and that it wasn't connected to their actions.

Incidentally, doing something because it is 'cool' is not necessarily a bad thing nor an insult to your intelligence. Earth is important to people because, well, we live on it. Yes, it may not be the most original storyline ever but that doesn't always matter. Saving the Asari homeworld for example may be more original but ultimately amounts to the same thing whilst resonating less with the majority of players. You can point to your poll with a few hundred votes, but millions of people bought Mass Effect so we can't pretend that ANY poll on this forum is representative.

Modifié par candidate88766, 02 avril 2011 - 05:56 .

[Fixers0]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Because for the Writers of ME3, Earth is much more important then artcurus station.

No, the "Rule of Cool" is obviously more important than anything. So the writers guessed that it must be cool to "listen to the fans" who wanted to visit Earth as some point. But check the poll, they guessed wrong.

True , but Writers don't really care, they don't really see the Alliance and Earth as  different entities in terms of goverment, and while this maybe be so, it's really minor point that they don't want to exploit, and let's be honest why should they?

[darthboro]

How can a lot of you assume that batarians know Shepard was behind the Alpha Relay Incident? Rescuing Dr. Kenson wasn’t an official Alliance mission but a favor for admiral Hackett. At the end Shepard was the sole survivor, so he/she is the only one who knows what really happened there. Even Hackett knows ****, because he took Shepard at his word and threw away a mission report he has been given – the only evidence of commander involvement.

Before the mass relay explosion Batarians had limited knowledge of humans shady business  in the Bahak system so it will probably lead to war between them but it won’t be used  as a proof of Shepard’s gilt.  He/She could be accused only if Hackett  didn’t keep his mouth shut. IMO when admiral was talking about Shepard’s trial, he was referring to other questionable activities like working with Cerberus.

Modifié par darthboro, 02 avril 2011 - 06:11 .

[Zulu_DFA]

candidate88766 wrote...

The poll is only for where Shepard's trial should be, not whether people would like to visit Earth at some point at some point. Yes, it would probably make more sense Shepard to be trialed at the Citadel if he is being tired as a Spectre. For the record, this is where I feel the trial should be.

And that's all I am saying. marrying the "visit Earth at some point" and "Shepard's trial" gags is a very bad idea.

As the saying goes: "keep the steak separate from the flies".

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 02 avril 2011 - 06:21 .

[didymos1120]

darthboro wrote...
 IMO when admiral was talking about Shepard’s trial, he was referring to other questionable activities like working with Cerberus.

I don't know why'd you'd think that, since Hackett explicitly says it's about preventing a war with the batarians that can ill be afforded when the Reapers are about to strike.  Hackett's saying, basically, "I have to reveal your involvement in this. It's way too big to just look the other way, and the Alliance isn't going to accept 'Gee, no clue what happened with that, guys.  But it was pretty crazy, right, what with the relay and the death and all that jazz? What a galaxy!'"