1529 réponses à ce sujet

[Zulu_DFA]

Wereparrot wrote...

Orkboy wrote...

What I don't understand is that this shouldn't be going to trial anyway.

I agree. Come on people, this 'Shepherd on Trial' theory has a hole in it that you could sail an oil tanker through sideways, and comfortably so. What evidence is there to accuse Shepherd of anything? I mean, all eyewitnesses are dead and the asteroid as well as the relay is destroyed. All anyone knows is that a batarian colony has been mysteriously removed from existence, along with a mass relay. The only way I can see this getting out is if Hackett betrays Shepherd. Am I missing something glaring?

As I said, the Arrival plot is irrelevant as a pretext for the trial. Killing Tela Vasir or tax dodge should have been enough. If you don't agree with the idea of the trial, or don't see it coming, then don't even bother.

[Slayer299]

Wereparrot wrote...

I agree. Come on people, this 'Shepherd on Trial' theory has a hole in it that you could sail an oil tanker through sideways, and comfortably so. What evidence is there to accuse Shepherd of anything? I mean, all eyewitnesses are dead and the asteroid as well as the relay is destroyed. All anyone knows is that a batarian colony has been mysteriously removed from existence, along with a mass relay. The only way I can see this getting out is if Hackett betrays Shepherd. Am I missing something glaring?

Sort of. There is no hard evidence connecting Shep to the destruction of the colony or Mass Relay, but there must be some circumstancial evidence since Hackett comments about it and then that Shep is *going* to be called back to Earth about it and that he can't stop it.

Also there is the comment about the Alliance not wanting a war with the Batarians on the eve of a Reaper invasion or worse, the galaxy just sitting back, not wanting to get involved in that war and therefore not uniting for the Reapers arrival.  Which means to me that the SA will throw Shep out to the Batarians as a sacrificial lamb to appease them.

[DPSSOC]

Wereparrot wrote...

Orkboy wrote...
What I don't understand is that this shouldn't be going to trial anyway.

I agree. Come on people, this 'Shepherd on Trial' theory has a hole in it that you could sail an oil tanker through sideways, and comfortably so. What evidence is there to accuse Shepherd of anything? I mean, all eyewitnesses are dead and the asteroid as well as the relay is destroyed. All anyone knows is that a batarian colony has been mysteriously removed from existence, along with a mass relay. The only way I can see this getting out is if Hackett betrays Shepherd. Am I missing something glaring?

Except the Batarians no doubt informed the Hegemony they had captured human terrorists and that they suspected they were trying to destroy the relay (said suspiscions are voiced by grunts as you move through the prison).  Then the entire system is destroyed.  That's enough to level the gun at humanity and they need somebody to take the fall.  By saying it was Shepard acting independently, and punishing him for it, they can stave off a war.  It isn't about what can be proven it's about needing a fall guy.  You are that fall guy.

[Apollo Starflare]

Exceptions to established laws and rules are made all the time. I could see them setting it on Earth for the spectacle if nothing else. At the end of the day there is every chance the BioWare team decided they wanted the game to open on Earth with Shepard's trial which gets interupted by the Reaper invasion or something, I'm sure there will be reason enough to explain why it's being held on Earth.

It's worth noting that it isn't a court martial, this is bigger than just the military at this point. Having a big public trial on Earth would send a message to those upset by Shepard's actions as well.

Edit: As for how the Galactic community might know it was Shep, well some of us sent a brief message to the Batarian planet (or did that not get through? I know it was interupted). Plus a lot could be pieced together via reports transmitted elsewhere. Again, not exactly implausible.

Modifié par Apollo Starflare, 31 mars 2011 - 01:19 .

[Ahriman]

I see few variants.

1. Alliance: Ok, guys, Shepard will be punished, but only we have right to do that.
Alliance prison. I'm not sure that batarians will agree with it.

2. Alliance: Fine, take him. He was a deserter for last two years after all.
Batarian prison. Meh, I'm getting tired from mercs with batarian voices.

3. Alliance: Shepard is guilty, but if we give him to you you'll just kill him. He is a goddamn hero and former spectre so let's just give him to neutral side aka Council.
Council prison. I would like it.

4. Judge: For all what you've done you will make cookies for batarians for the rest of your li...
*Everyone looks up*
People: Oh no! Ancient race of sentient machines arrived here to indocrinate us, rape us and turn us into goo! You must save us
Judge: ... and we'll forget about your crimes!
Shepard: Not a problem!
*Grabes a rope ladder and flies away.*
Plausible, but it's even more cliche than imprisonment.

Orkboy wrote...

What I don't understand is that this shouldn't be going to trial anyway.

Shepard was on a covert mission that only she and Hackett knew about.

Sure the Normandy picked Shepard up at the end, but the crew has no Idea what happened before that and the Batarians can't know exactly what happened because those that saw Shepard and might have worked it out are all dead.

So unless Shepard or Hackett tells exactly what happened ( and why would they, it was a black op and never took place ) then nobody should go to trial.

Technically Shepard and Hackett can write any reports on the matter to reflect Shepard as having nothing to do with it.

Well, I'm sure that batarians sent report after Shepard's visit of prison. But how could they recognize Shepard if he/she wears fullhelmet? "Last minutes of spy satelite" with Normandy on video would be blatant Deus Ex Machina.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

It would be a little strange for a full paragon Shapard to have his Spectre title stripped. He saved the Council and left Cerberus after stopping human clony abductions... he should be the single most loved person in the galactic community and they're going to give him a hard time about destroying a system that no one besides slavers care about?

[Nozybidaj]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

To be honest, I had this idea myself, that one of the possible scenarios could be the Reaper invasion commencing in the middle of the trial. But it was way before it became clear that the Reapers were going to start with Earth, and I kinda drifted away from it, also not in small part due to the fact that it couldn't provide the necessary reason for nerfing Shepard's skills (as opposed to a lenghtly imprisonment). BioWare, however, seems to have drifted towards it, due to it's "coolness", I presume.

Did we really expect anything else at this point?

I assume the trial on Earth thing is just to have the "cool" opening of the Reapers arriving on the planet and starting the attacks.

[Zulu_DFA]

Apollo Starflare wrote...

Exceptions to established laws and rules are made all the time. I could see them setting it on Earth for the spectacle if nothing else. At the end of the day there is every chance the BioWare team decided they wanted the game to open on Earth with Shepard's trial which gets interupted by the Reaper invasion or something, I'm sure there will be reason enough to explain why it's being held on Earth.

Something tells me that the lines of the explaining will not make it through the "fluent gameplay" chaffer, that allows for only so mamy lines to be had before each shootout. And since Hackett has already foreshadowed (without any reason, 'cause in-game it's supposed to be unclear yet) that the trial will be taking place on Earth, ME3 will treat it as granted and "just because".

Yet the real reason will be entirely out-of-game: to have Shepard convenietly witness the Reaper invasion in person, to "amp things up" and make 'em more "personal". Which will be so self-evident, that, coupled with the half-assed and hald-cut dialogue, it'll just have the opposite effect. Namely, immersion breaking.

Apollo Starflare wrote...

It's worth noting that it isn't a court martial, this is bigger than just the military at this point. Having a big public trial on Earth would send a message to those upset by Shepard's actions as well.

Having a big public trial at the Arcturus station, which is the Human Space Capital, would send an even stronger message to everybody.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 31 mars 2011 - 01:40 .

[Leonia]

And personally, I felt ripped off that we didn't get to see Arcturus station in Arrival, come on give us an excuse to see it please!

Also, the ME3 trailer (I know, take it with a grain of salt) implies Shepard isn't on Earth when the invasion starts.

[eye basher]

Shepards specter status is just a title anderson said it himself the council wont help shepard in any way.Shepard is person non gratta as for getting tried the batarians are gonna want blood the only thing the council has to say is that shepard is insane,a rouge specter like saren and that he/she is working for a known terrorist organization cerberus.

[Wereparrot]

DPSSOC wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

Orkboy wrote...
What I don't understand is that this shouldn't be going to trial anyway.

I agree. Come on people, this 'Shepherd on Trial' theory has a hole in it that you could sail an oil tanker through sideways, and comfortably so. What evidence is there to accuse Shepherd of anything? I mean, all eyewitnesses are dead and the asteroid as well as the relay is destroyed. All anyone knows is that a batarian colony has been mysteriously removed from existence, along with a mass relay. The only way I can see this getting out is if Hackett betrays Shepherd. Am I missing something glaring?

Except the Batarians no doubt informed the Hegemony they had captured human terrorists and that they suspected they were trying to destroy the relay (said suspiscions are voiced by grunts as you move through the prison).  Then the entire system is destroyed.  That's enough to level the gun at humanity and they need somebody to take the fall.  By saying it was Shepard acting independently, and punishing him for it, they can stave off a war.  It isn't about what can be proven it's about needing a fall guy.  You are that fall guy.

So, if Shepherd is punished, he is merely a scapegoat, and the lack of evidence is irrelevant.

[Zulu_DFA]

leonia42 wrote...

Also, the ME3 trailer (I know, take it with a grain of salt) implies Shepard isn't on Earth when the invasion starts.

Well, "in orbit around Earth", and "on Earth" is pretty much the same thing in the ME universe. Plus the Big Ben Sniper's words about Shepard seem to imply that Shepard has just left for the help.

[Almostfaceman]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

To be honest, I had this idea myself, that one of the possible scenarios could be the Reaper invasion commencing in the middle of the trial. But it was way before it became clear that the Reapers were going to start with Earth, and I kinda drifted away from it, also not in small part due to the fact that it couldn't provide the necessary reason for nerfing Shepard's skills (as opposed to a lenghtly imprisonment). BioWare, however, seems to have drifted towards it, due to it's "coolness", I presume.

Did we really expect anything else at this point?

I assume the trial on Earth thing is just to have the "cool" opening of the Reapers arriving on the planet and starting the attacks.

Wow, it hasn't been done and people are already ripping Bioware for it happening.  "Hey!  Look at me!  I can whine not only about stuff that Bioware has made, but stuff Bioware hasn't made yet and I'm not even sure they're going to make it, weeee!"

Talk about finding stuff to complain about... sheesh.

Anyway, this whole "trial on Earth" thing is nothig to get upset about.  We know nothing about trials or court procedures and we've only seen one hearing - that regarding Saren.  So saying that it's set in stone somewhere that the trial has to be on the Citadel or Arcturus Station is not based on any fact revealed in-game.  What, it's implausible that the Alliance has no presence on Earth?  That's ridiculous.  Holding the trial on earth is fine.  When batarians or asari or turians think "human" I doubt sincerely they think "Yeah, the heart of humanity is Arcturus Station."  Nope, the rest of the galactic community is going to think "earth".  Shepard is very clearly a symbol of earth.

[naddaya]

Technically, Shepard isn't even part of the Alliance anymore. Nor the Spectres, nor Cerberus, if you choose. There's no way they can force a trail on her.

[mrmarcus101]

Wereparrot wrote...

So, if Shepherd is punished, he is merely a scapegoat, and the lack of evidence is irrelevant.

And the kangaroo smiles.

[Apollo Starflare]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Having a big public trial at the Arcturus station, which is the Human Space Capital, would send an even stronger message to everybody.

leonia42 wrote...

And personally, I felt ripped off that
we didn't get to see Arcturus station in Arrival, come on give us an
excuse to see it please!

Yeah at the end of the day I agree Arcturus would have been better, I just don't care enough either way to be overly put out by it.

With that said I will echo Leonia in saying that I wish we'd gotten to visit Arcturus in Arrival; another reason I wish the DLC had been LotSB sized. Would fit perfectly with my blogged idea based around further cutting out the Normandy and Cerberus from the mission as well and could have had easter eggs and extras similar to the dossiers and surveilance footage from SB.

Hopefully it'll make it into ME3 despite the focus being on Earth.

[Zulu_DFA]

eye basher wrote...

Shepards specter status is just a title anderson said it himself the council wont help shepard in any way.Shepard is person non gratta as for getting tried the batarians are gonna want blood the only thing the council has to say is that shepard is insane,a rouge specter like saren and that he/she is working for a known terrorist organization cerberus.

And yet it makes the most sense for the Udina-led Council to try Shepard on the Citadel, under the Council's own authority, to send everybody the message that the New Council doesn't play favorites.

[Wereparrot]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

Orkboy wrote...

What I don't understand is that this shouldn't be going to trial anyway.

I agree. Come on people, this 'Shepherd on Trial' theory has a hole in it that you could sail an oil tanker through sideways, and comfortably so. What evidence is there to accuse Shepherd of anything? I mean, all eyewitnesses are dead and the asteroid as well as the relay is destroyed. All anyone knows is that a batarian colony has been mysteriously removed from existence, along with a mass relay. The only way I can see this getting out is if Hackett betrays Shepherd. Am I missing something glaring?

As I said, the Arrival plot is irrelevant as a pretext for the trial. Killing Tela Vasir or tax dodge should have been enough. If you don't agree with the idea of the trial, or don't see it coming, then don't even bother.

I disagree with the idea of an immediate trial for many things, but I would not oppose an inquest into issues like tax dodge and the whole Arrival episode. I am not saying, however, that I don't expect there to be a trial; I am just questioning the circumstances.

[Almostfaceman]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

eye basher wrote...

Shepards specter status is just a title anderson said it himself the council wont help shepard in any way.Shepard is person non gratta as for getting tried the batarians are gonna want blood the only thing the council has to say is that shepard is insane,a rouge specter like saren and that he/she is working for a known terrorist organization cerberus.

And yet it makes the most sense for the Udina-led Council to try Shepard on the Citadel, under the Council's own authority, to send everybody the message that the New Council doesn't play favorites.

And it makes just as much sense to try him on Earth, to show Earth is "owning" the problem and dealing with it.  This way humanity is, as a Council race, "solving their own problems" as every Council race is obliged to do, and the rest of the Council doesn't get "dragged into it".

[Nashiktal]

Everyone keeps forgetting that Anderson isn't part of the council anymore despite your choices. Like Zulu said, Udina leads the human side of the council now.

(BTW I still feel like Humanity isn't a big enough presence to warrant a human council)

[Nerevar-as]

Making the trial/prison on Earth also means Hackett can bail Shepard out the minute the first Reaper appears at Charon. With some luck the allies who believe the Reapers exists (quarians, krogan, rachni, possibly geth) have been building power meanwhile.

I took Shepard accepted to be judged after the Reapers were dealt with, but depending on Batarian attitude, s/he may have to play scapegoat for a time.

[InHarmsWay]

My guess is that the beginning of the trial will go like this.

Opening scene would be of a prosecutor reviewing Shepard's record. This would be where new players would enter Shepard's data or where ME2 imports will do customization of Shepard's face. After the record is reviewed, Shepard will be led into the courtroom in chains by two Marines. Here Shepard will have the thoughts of their Love Interest as a way to improve their will to fight and to show that the LI is recognized. If the player is new, They can select their love interest from the previous games so something like a dialogue wheel with selection of Ash, Liara, Tali, Miranda, Jack. This dialogue wheel will be unavailable to imported characters (since they pursued the romance).

The trial will be public and likely televised.

Shepard will be called to the stand where the prosecutor will read off charges against Shepard. The persecutor will then go over some major events in Shepard's history. This can double as a sort of ME: Genesis event where new players can make the decisions that were missed in ME1 and ME2. So for an example, the prosecutor will read off Shepard's mission on Noveria "where s/he ran into a Rachni Queen. Rachni as we know nearly overran the galaxy, but she pleaded for her life. In response you..." Make choice of whether to save her or kill her. Or if you did an import he will continue saying, "released her and risking the galaxy's future from a possible second Rachni war.
Here Shepard can argue why that decision was made. To establish motivation. Even killing the Rachni a person can make a paragon response that it was for the safety of the galaxy. Or a renegade can say that by saving the Rachni, they will make valuable allies for the future.

This can be done for most major decisions in the court. It can all lead to where your loyalties lie and the Collector base. Also, as a bonus for imported characters, Shepard would have persuasion options open for him/her to use to get the jury on his/her side.

Eventually it will come to verdict of either guilty or not guilty, and right after the verdict the Reapers arrive rendering either invalid. Start mission, fight husks!

[Zulu_DFA]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

eye basher wrote...

Shepards specter status is just a title anderson said it himself the council wont help shepard in any way.Shepard is person non gratta as for getting tried the batarians are gonna want blood the only thing the council has to say is that shepard is insane,a rouge specter like saren and that he/she is working for a known terrorist organization cerberus.

And yet it makes the most sense for the Udina-led Council to try Shepard on the Citadel, under the Council's own authority, to send everybody the message that the New Council doesn't play favorites.

And it makes just as much sense to try him on Earth, to show Earth is "owning" the problem and dealing with it.  This way humanity is, as a Council race, "solving their own problems" as every Council race is obliged to do, and the rest of the Council doesn't get "dragged into it".

Just for your information:

The Earth is just a piece of molten iron covered with rock and a little H2O. It can't own any problems.

As for the Mankind, as soon as it lefts its "craddle", it'll spread its domain to any such piece of rock it manages to claim, establishing new cultural, economical and political realities that you guys seem to be incapable of grasping, but which any real sci-fi is supposed to be all about. Therefore, it's simply a matter of difference between the good sci-fi, and a cheap moneygrab product.

The Humanity, as a Council race, is supposed to solve its problems via established institutions such as the Council and the Systems Alliance, and not by "going to Earth".

[Daviddolan]

Wereparrot wrote...

Orkboy wrote...

What I don't understand is that this shouldn't be going to trial anyway.

I agree. Come on people, this 'Shepherd on Trial' theory has a hole in it that you could sail an oil tanker through sideways, and comfortably so. What evidence is there to accuse Shepherd of anything? I mean, all eyewitnesses are dead and the asteroid as well as the relay is destroyed. All anyone knows is that a batarian colony has been mysteriously removed from existence, along with a mass relay. The only way I can see this getting out is if Hackett betrays Shepherd. Am I missing something glaring?

Shepherd is the most famous human in the galaxy, he is known and recognised. He landed on a Batarian colony broke into a prison and and was not very quiet when leaving. In the following two days he was out cold it was likely that rumours and maybe a few vids of his pressence at the colony got out and found its way to the Batarians, the Alliance and the Citadel.

Chain of thought of most of galaxy -> Highly skilled, higly trained combat Spectre who is known to be able to achieve some alomost impossible goals such as saving the citadel from the geth is seen fighting and breaking out a human accused of terrorism on a Batarian colony in an area of space where two days later a mass relay, a device that is supposedly indesturctible, is destroyed. Hmm... who in that area of space at that time would have the capability and the balls to do something like that?

[Aesieru]

I doubt they'll put Shepherd in chains, I don't think we'll ever see handcuffs in Mass Effect due to lazy programming, plus he's not presumed guilty at first, but innocent so no chains.