1529 réponses à ce sujet

[Ahriman]

You guys are ignoring the fact that there is also shuttle full of indocrinated scientiest, who esaped from asteroid, and two days before destruction of the relay somebody killed half of prisoners to save some Alliance spy. Shepard talked to Kenson, if process on interogation was recorded then all necessary evidences exist.

[darthboro]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

darthboro wrote...

In real life International Court of Justice is placed in The Hague, Netherlands which is a sovereign state, so maybe Systems Alliance Court of Justice or something like that also has an HQ in one of the sovereign states.

IMO Shepard's trial should take place on Arcturus Station but Earth is a tolerable option too.

And in real life no US soldier can ever go to the Hauge to be tried by ICC. Because the US > the ICC.

But in Mass Effect universe Citadel>Systems Alliance>UNSA and any other Earths state, so Shepard as an Allianace Soldier who commited a crime against Citadel space community should be tried by the Citadel Council or by the SA court if they allowed it.

in real life if US soldier commited a crime on a foreign soil and was arrested, he can be tried by that foreign goverment or can be handed over by them to the US

[candidate88766]

darthboro wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

darthboro wrote...

In real life International Court of Justice is placed in The Hague, Netherlands which is a sovereign state, so maybe Systems Alliance Court of Justice or something like that also has an HQ in one of the sovereign states.

IMO Shepard's trial should take place on Arcturus Station but Earth is a tolerable option too.

And in real life no US soldier can ever go to the Hauge to be tried by ICC. Because the US > the ICC.

But in Mass Effect universe Citadel>Systems Alliance>UNSA and any other Earths state, so Shepard as an Allianace Soldier who commited a crime against Citadel space community should be tried by the Citadel Council or by the SA court if they allowed it.

in real life if US soldier commited a crime on a foreign soil and was arrested, he can be tried by that foreign goverment or can be handed over by them to the US

Just a quick point - aren't the Batarians outside Council space? That would mean the only options are the Human government or the Batarian government.

[darthboro]

candidate88766 wrote...

Just a quick point - aren't the Batarians outside Council space? That would mean the only options are the Human government or the Batarian government.

Yup you're right I forgot about that.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Seeing it on the news while stranded without resources and on the run would be even beter.

Really? Rather see it on news than "personally"? Well that would be fine by me too but I'd like to see it on Earth.

Even if there was an "Earth's government" (which there isn't), Shepard wouldn't be answereing to it any more than to a Hanar government.

I think there is an "Earth government" or at least something for that matter (United Nations or something) but you're right. I read the codex more extensively and Shepard shouldn't answer to Earth at all as he is part of the Alliance military. But I think that the relantionship of Earth and the Alliance isn't very much well explained: "The Systems Alliance is the representative body of Earth and all human colonies in Citadel space"; "Earth's eighteen largest nations had drafted and ratified the Systems Alliance charter, establishing a representative political body to expand
and defend human territory." So, does the Alliance answer to these nations? Are they independent or not? The Alliance represents Earth and Humanity in Space, but how much Earth answers for it?

The trial itself could be a room for clarification. Maybe the "Shepard problem" got so big that Earth intervened on something that should be an Alliance issue? Maybe with the evidence on the Reapers's invasion from Arrival and the Collectors's attack on the colonies all mankind's representatives will rally and the "trial of Shepard" will be more of a "how to deal with the reapers"?

Questions...so many...

Goddammit, I really hope the writers don't screw this up going Hollywood and emotional and forget to at least bring some believable excuse.

Modifié par RyuGuitarFreak, 02 avril 2011 - 08:38 .

[Randy1012]

candidate88766 wrote...

Just a quick point - aren't the Batarians outside Council space? That would mean the only options are the Human government or the Batarian government.

The batarians aren't a Council race, true, but if Shepard's Spectre status was renewed in ME2, then that places him outside of Alliance jurisdiction and means he'd have to be tried at the Citadel, unless the Council decided to revoke his Spectre status for the duration of the trial.

Really, this whole "Shepard going on trial" thing doesn't make any sense because there are too many variables to take into account.

[darthboro]

sorry for double post

Modifié par darthboro, 02 avril 2011 - 08:43 .

[darthboro]

candidate88766 wrote...

Just a quick point - aren't the Batarians outside Council space? That would mean the only options are the Human government or the Batarian government.

Yup you're right I forgot about that.

So if Systems Alliance want to avoid war with batarians they should hand over Shepard to them.

[Kaiser Shepard]

candidate88766 wrote...

Just a quick point - aren't the Batarians outside Council space? That would mean the only options are the Human government or the Batarian government.

Humanity ultimately answers to the Council, human-led or not. Shepard is/was one of their most prominent and well known Spectres, while the batarians are a former Council race... Given the Council's role as galactic peacekeepers (as long as it suits their own interestest) and how this could trigger a war with the Terminus Systems, I can see how they'd want this trial to be done by them.

[Almostfaceman]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Seeing it on the news while stranded without resources and on the run would be even beter.

Really? Rather see it on news than "personally"? Well that would be fine by me too but I'd like to see it on Earth.

Even if there was an "Earth's government" (which there isn't), Shepard wouldn't be answereing to it any more than to a Hanar government.

I think there is an "Earth government" or at least something for that matter (United Nations or something) but you're right. I read the codex more extensively and Shepard shouldn't answer to Earth at all as he is part of the Alliance military. But I think that the relantionship of Earth and the Alliance isn't very much well explained: "The Systems Alliance is the representative body of Earth and all human colonies in Citadel space"; "Earth's eighteen largest nations had drafted and ratified the Systems Alliance charter, establishing a representative political body to expand
and defend human territory." So, does the Alliance answer to these nations? Are they independent or not? The Alliance represents Earth and Humanity in Space, but how much Earth answers for it?

The trial itself could be a room for clarification. Maybe the "Shepard problem" got so big that Earth intervened on something that should be an Alliance issue? Maybe with the evidence on the Reapers's invasion from Arrival and the Collectors's attack on the colonies all mankind's representatives will rally and the "trial of Shepard" will be more of a "how to deal with the reapers"?

Questions...so many...

Goddammit, I really hope the writers don't screw this up going Hollywood and emotional and forget to at least bring some believable excuse.

Technically, Shepard isn't in the Alliance military anymore either.  The Earth governements formed the Alliance, then the Alliance at some point made itself independent so that when the Earth governements don't agree the Alliance can legally move forward anyway.  The Earth governments are still affiliated with the Alliance (the wiki says they're members of the Alliance parliament).  In galactic matters, Earth governments have given away their sovereign rights and handed them to the Alliance because the Alliance speaks for all Earth humanity.  This way, the Citadel Council doesn't have to deal with each individual human government (on Earth or colonial).

Modifié par Almostfaceman, 02 avril 2011 - 08:54 .

[RyuGuitarFreak]

Almostfaceman wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Seeing it on the news while stranded without resources and on the run would be even beter.

Really? Rather see it on news than "personally"? Well that would be fine by me too but I'd like to see it on Earth.

Even if there was an "Earth's government" (which there isn't), Shepard wouldn't be answereing to it any more than to a Hanar government.

I think there is an "Earth government" or at least something for that matter (United Nations or something) but you're right. I read the codex more extensively and Shepard shouldn't answer to Earth at all as he is part of the Alliance military. But I think that the relantionship of Earth and the Alliance isn't very much well explained: "The Systems Alliance is the representative body of Earth and all human colonies in Citadel space"; "Earth's eighteen largest nations had drafted and ratified the Systems Alliance charter, establishing a representative political body to expand
and defend human territory." So, does the Alliance answer to these nations? Are they independent or not? The Alliance represents Earth and Humanity in Space, but how much Earth answers for it?

The trial itself could be a room for clarification. Maybe the "Shepard problem" got so big that Earth intervened on something that should be an Alliance issue? Maybe with the evidence on the Reapers's invasion from Arrival and the Collectors's attack on the colonies all mankind's representatives will rally and the "trial of Shepard" will be more of a "how to deal with the reapers"?

Questions...so many...

Goddammit, I really hope the writers don't screw this up going Hollywood and emotional and forget to at least bring some believable excuse.

Technically, Shepard isn't in the Alliance military anymore either.  The Earth governements formed the Alliance, then the Alliance at some point made itself independent so that when the Earth governements don't agree the Alliance can legally move forward anyway.  The Earth governments are still affiliated with the Alliance (the wiki says they're members of the Alliance parliament).  In galactic matters, Earth governments have given away their sovereign rights and handed them to the Alliance because the Alliance speaks for all Earth humanity.  This way, the Citadel Council doesn't have to deal with each individual human government (on Earth or colonial).

Hmmm, I see. So they will have to come up with veeeeeeeeeeery good excuse for that trial on Earth lol.

[Zulu_DFA]

[quote]celuloid wrote...
[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...
    So yes, the Alliance of course can own a "court room" on Earth, but it would need some reason for that.
[/quote]
Oh man, finally we are up to something. So you allow us the possibility to be tried on Earth after all! Bring on the champagne.
[/quote]
I also allow for the possibility for Shepard to be tried on Feros, if the explanation provided is hard enough. So far it makes no sense for Shepard to be tried anywhere but on the Citadel or Arcturus Station.


[quote]celuloid wrote...
[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...
    [quote]Fixers0 wrote...   
    Because for the Writers of ME3, Earth is much more important then artcurus station.
    [/quote]
        No, the "Rule of Cool" is obviously more important than anything. So the writers guessed that it must be cool to "listen to the fans" who wanted to visit Earth as some point. But check the poll, they guessed wrong.
[/quote]
Yes, check the poll please. You know, the objective one.
[/quote]
You "objective" poll says the same thing as mine. Only two fifths of the voters are interested in seeing Shepard tried on such a "cool" place as Earth, while almost two thirds are sensible enough to vote for either of the galactic power centers Shepard could be considered answering to.

And the loonie option of Kar'shan is very telling about the poll author's, er... poll creating skills.


[quote]celuloid wrote...
[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...
    [quote]celuloid wrote...   
    Zulu, you really think Alliance fleets still exist during events in ME3 trailer?
    [/quote]
        Yes. The Reapers seem to fall out of FTL right above London. If their primary goal is to harvest Humanity, that makes sense, as long as they think the Galaxy can't resist them anyway. That means even the Lunar colony is untouched.
    [quote]celuloid wrote...   
    Fleets' objective is to protect Earth and colonies. They obviously failed and goal of ME3 will be to unite other races who would be more or less willing to help you depending on how you treated them.
    [/quote]
        The Alliance fleets sit at Relay hubs - the Galactic chokepoints, like the Artcurus System. Since the Reapers bypassed it there was no engagement for the Alliance Fleets to get destroyed. And anyway how do you think the "other races" can help if the Alliance fleets got cut like butter?
        
What we need is a "super-weapon", a "virus" or some kind of "deus ex machina" (beings of light, maybe?) will.
[/quote]

Trailer made it clear that they are fighting Reapers for a week to no avail. I am sure if you were in charge, armed with all Shepard's knowledge of Reapers, you would hold back and hit them with everything you could muster up.
However, Alliance would just get in and get destroyed because Shepard is only lieutenant-level grunt, not director of universe. Yes, we definitely need superweapon we should have at least learned nature of in ME2 (dark energy was hinted at very briefly, and nobody knows what it means anyway; probably some big bang aimed at bad guys).[/quote]
1. Shepard is not a lieutenant-level, Shepard is a commander-level.

2. Fanfic goes here.


[quote]celuloid wrote...
[quote]
    [quote]celuloid wrote...
    Which means if you lose all of Earth population, you won't have equipment and you won't have manpower. Good luck with your imperialistic goals then.
    [/quote]
        Thank you, and I assure you, my imperialistic goals will be more attainable than ever, if the Reapers are kind enough to get destoyed taking only Earth with them. Because 99% of my imperialistic equipment is off earth, and the excessive "manpower" is more of a burden than advantage.
[/quote]

In your universe apparently less people mean more prosperity. Hard to argue with that. I wonder what's next? War is peace?[/quote]
War is the continuation of politics. And peace is not the natural order of things.


[quote]celuloid wrote...

Hate is
[/quote]
I don't have time for hate.


[quote]celuloid wrote...

love?
[/quote]
Sex.


[quote]celuloid wrote...

But I guess it will be Lie is truth.
[/quote]
Kinda. You guys think what Vigil said was absolute truth, but it was a lie.


[quote]celuloid wrote...

What you do not recognize is importance of homeworld for species whose almost all members still remember living on it.
[/quote]
Key word: almost.

But on this world there are also a lot of rats, snakes, ants and worms of different species living. The are in more danger than the Humans, becasue they don't have spaceships, and wore probably not allowed to leav Earth on the Humans' ships, due to sanitary regualtions.


[quote]celuloid wrote...

Nobody wants to live on space stations for too long and colonies do not have any culture of itself yet to sustain development of human race.[/quote]
Take that "culture" bullsh*t back to your palm tree. Don't teach the colonists how to live, earthworm! Oh, and the Citadel is a space station, you know? Everybody wants to live there!


[quote]celuloid wrote...
Make a sum of people living in known colonies. It is not more than 110 million, I counted ~15 million. Writers did not give us more information to operate with. So who works in all your production facilities?
[/quote]
They are automated, and remotely operated.


[quote]celuloid wrote...

It seems to me almost all are located on Earth.
[/quote]
Thats why the Alliance builds its dreadnoughts at the Arcturus Station. Now I get it. The Arcturus Station is there:

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 02 avril 2011 - 10:09 .

[Almostfaceman]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Technically, Shepard isn't in the Alliance military anymore either.  The Earth governements formed the Alliance, then the Alliance at some point made itself independent so that when the Earth governements don't agree the Alliance can legally move forward anyway.  The Earth governments are still affiliated with the Alliance (the wiki says they're members of the Alliance parliament).  In galactic matters, Earth governments have given away their sovereign rights and handed them to the Alliance because the Alliance speaks for all Earth humanity.  This way, the Citadel Council doesn't have to deal with each individual human government (on Earth or colonial).

Hmmm, I see. So they will have to come up with veeeeeeeeeeery good excuse for that trial on Earth lol.

I don't agree with that.  The Alliance headquarters is Arcturus Station, but the Alliance has presence on all of its territory - this includes Earth and the colonies.  Technically the trial can be held wherever the Alliance has jurisdiction and Earth (not a particular government on Earth) is the Power behind the Alliance and the Homeworld of Humanity.  So I don't see it being implausible for the trial to be held on Earth. 

[IrishGunman]

It would just be a front to court marshal Shepard so they would not go to war with the Batarians. Also Shepard killed 300,000 aliens, there has to be a consequence, just saying.

[Randy1012]

You can't court martial someone who isn't in the military anymore. The writers seemed to have forgotten that when they wrote Hackett's "put your dress blues on" line.

[SalsaDMA]

Personally I don't see the need for a trial.

He was technically a Spectre on active duty in the Terminus systems.

Shepard was never removed from being a spectre, he was just considered being KIA.

There is no evidence pointing out he did anything wrong, and according to the guidelines of the Spectres, he was doing whatever he was doing on the behalf of the council. irregardless of whether they were aware of his current actions.

Sure, they might want a report from him, and he could ever be paragon about it: "There was evidence that an invasion from a hostile species were about to occur, and I had to do whatever it took to stop it. Be ready to sacrifice lives if needs be, as you, the council, reminded me was part of a spectres duty not that long ago."
or renegade: "I was on the trail of a cerberus cell planning to blow up a Batarian system, hence my involvement with Cerberus in the first place. Their plan was too far in the process for me to be able to avert it, though, and I barely made it out of the system alive."

Anyone trialing shepard for anything is just bad writing and forced behaviour. Spectres in general would become the biggest political issue for the council since the rachnii wars if they trialed a spectre for blowing up a system while he was on active duty, regardless of the fact that no evidence even exists to verify it.

[Zulu_DFA]

Randy1083 wrote...

You can't court martial someone who isn't in the military anymore. The writers seemed to have forgotten that when they wrote Hackett's "put your dress blues on" line.

When was Shepard discharged?

He was assigned to the Citadel Concil SpecTRe corps, and this assignement ended when he was formally pronounced dead.

Turns out, he didn't actually die, so his death was like fake. That means he's been AWOL from the Alliance Navy all this time. Unless he is a SpecTRe again.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 02 avril 2011 - 10:25 .

[SalsaDMA]

darthboro wrote...

candidate88766 wrote...

Just a quick point - aren't the Batarians outside Council space? That would mean the only options are the Human government or the Batarian government.

Yup you're right I forgot about that.

So if Systems Alliance want to avoid war with batarians they should hand over Shepard to them.

You mean like the Batarians handed over Balak for trying out nearly the same stunt, and there is even irrefutable evidence showing this, as opposed to the weaksauce manufactored stuff they have against Shepard?

Oh wait...

[Sparrow44]

Anyone considered the possibility that wherever Shep could be held in custody before any sort of trial that the a group of Batarians raid the prison in an attempt to capture and interrogate Shepard themselves?

Getting ambushed by Batarians and in need of a prison break would be a good way to start of ME3 than Shep voluntarily going to a human court when in honesty as 'humanity's saviour' shouldn't have to answer for helping his own race.

[Woodstock-TC]

against any trial. thats just bollocks. It becomes so much Jack Bauer in space that it starts hurting..

=> charges filled against my Shepard Char on earth for a decision i couldnt even
select to take.. come on that just sucks and annoyed me 120% ..
And this is a majory issue with this lastDLC. A mediocre DLC just spoils my Shepard character fun. Bah. No choice, just plin FPS Shooter like. All set.

Oviously the writers try to stretch now the personal drama of the "champion" in this series.
Beingdead and losing the former relations was not enough.  He/She needs to  kill zillions, having blood on the hands and still continue (Are you  aiming to do a Jack Bauer clone somehow) ? Let me give you further
boring ideas:

Torture him, let him torture innocents to have xy  showing up, let him sacrifice all friends to continue solo, let all hunt
him while he tries to save them all.. Man.. where are the glorious  moments such as the ME1 finish when you move out of the dust after the  final fight .. I never felt that satisfied before after completing  something in a game.
Diversion is good, but dont overdo FFS.

Modifié par Woodstock-TC, 02 avril 2011 - 10:44 .

[OGWS]

I stopped taking Zulu seriously like eight pages ago. You sound like some batarian extremist.

Modifié par OGWS, 02 avril 2011 - 10:39 .

[SalsaDMA]

From the wiki, regarding Spectres:

Spectres Edit Spectres sectionEdit

    Main article: Spectres

The Council's elite, invested with the Council's authority, Spectres are vital to keeping the peace across Citadel space. They are individuals who act either on the Council's orders or on their own initiative, to preserve galactic stability. Sometimes, in situations where the Council cannot be seen to act officially, they will send a Spectre instead. Spectres have absolute freedom under the law and answer only to the Council. All details of them are classified.

I underlined the interesting parts.

Trial on earth my ass:sick:

[Synobal]

You forget his trail could be on earth and his imprisonment else where. *shrug*

[Almostfaceman]

SalsaDMA wrote...

From the wiki, regarding Spectres:

Spectres Edit Spectres sectionEdit

    Main article: Spectres

The Council's elite, invested with the Council's authority, Spectres are vital to keeping the peace across Citadel space. They are individuals who act either on the Council's orders or on their own initiative, to preserve galactic stability. Sometimes, in situations where the Council cannot be seen to act officially, they will send a Spectre instead. Spectres have absolute freedom under the law and answer only to the Council. All details of them are classified.

I underlined the interesting parts.

Trial on earth my ass:sick:

If there is a trial, it won't be because it's a legal matter - politics/diplomacy will definitley be the motivator.

[naledgeborn]

Yes humans are one species but not every human is under Systems Allaince/C-Sec jurisdiction. A human commiting a crime on a colony oustide of Allaince/Council space has to answer to that colony's justice system. Just like the modern day PRC won't extradite one of it's citizens for a crime commited oustide of China. Shepard is a SPECTRE (if reinstated) who doesn't answer to anything/anyone other than the Citadel Council or an AWOL Systems Allaince Operative (if not reinstated) collaborating with a "terrorist" organization.

Modifié par naledgeborn, 02 avril 2011 - 10:52 .