1529 réponses à ce sujet

[Ileanos07]

Actually I think it is this case. Even when you dont play Arrival you´d still end at trial simply because you worked with Cerberus.

[celuloid]

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...

[quote]celuloid wrote...
[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...
[quote]Fixers0 wrote...
Because for the Writers of ME3, Earth is much more important then artcurus station.
[/quote]
No, the "Rule of Cool" is obviously more important than anything. So the writers guessed that it must be cool to "listen to the fans" who wanted to visit Earth as some point. But check the poll, they guessed wrong.
[/quote]
Yes, check the poll please. You know, the objective one.
[/quote]
You "objective" poll says the same thing as mine. Only two fifths of the voters are interested in seeing Shepard tried on such a "cool" place as Earth, while almost two thirds are sensible enough to vote for either of the galactic power centers Shepard could be considered answering to.

And the loonie option of Kar'shan is very telling about the poll author's, er... poll creating skills.
[/quote]

You might twist the facts as you wish, but you put those two "power centers" with all that fancy branching possibilities against Earth. So the objective result does not matter, because you think other people's opinion is worthless, they choose "cool" while you choose "power".

[quote]
[quote]celuloid wrote...
[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...
[quote]celuloid wrote...
Zulu, you really think Alliance fleets still exist during events in ME3 trailer?
[/quote]
Yes. The Reapers seem to fall out of FTL right above London. If their primary goal is to harvest Humanity, that makes sense, as long as they think the Galaxy can't resist them anyway. That means even the Lunar colony is untouched.
[quote]celuloid wrote...
Fleets' objective is to protect Earth and colonies. They obviously failed and goal of ME3 will be to unite other races who would be more or less willing to help you depending on how you treated them.
[/quote]
The Alliance fleets sit at Relay hubs - the Galactic chokepoints, like the Artcurus System. Since the Reapers bypassed it there was no engagement for the Alliance Fleets to get destroyed. And anyway how do you think the "other races" can help if the Alliance fleets got cut like butter?

What we need is a "super-weapon", a "virus" or some kind of "deus ex machina" (beings of light, maybe?) will.
[/quote]

Trailer made it clear that they are fighting Reapers for a week to no avail. I am sure if you were in charge, armed with all Shepard's knowledge of Reapers, you would hold back and hit them with everything you could muster up.
However, Alliance would just get in and get destroyed because Shepard is only lieutenant-level grunt, not director of universe. Yes, we definitely need superweapon we should have at least learned nature of in ME2 (dark energy was hinted at very briefly, and nobody knows what it means anyway; probably some big bang aimed at bad guys).
[/quote]

1. Shepard is not a lieutenant-level, Shepard is a commander-level.

2. Fanfic goes here.
[/quote]

1. And what does commander-level mean in real world? It is purely fictional rank at the level of lower-ranking officers, such as lieutenants.

2. Yes, and don't forget to write there about your beings of light.

[quote]
[quote]celuloid wrote...
What you do not recognize is importance of homeworld for species whose almost all members still remember living on it.
[/quote]
Key word: almost.

But on this world there are also a lot of rats, snakes, ants and worms of different species living. The are in more danger than the Humans, becasue they don't have spaceships, and wore probably not allowed to leav Earth on the Humans' ships, due to sanitary regualtions.
[/quote]

Wow. I start to see where your attitude comes from, comparing humans to rats. May I remind you all those species are not sapient? And just in case: You might get punished for murder of human, if you ever get into killing mood.

[quote]
[quote]celuloid wrote...
Nobody wants to live on space stations for too long and colonies do not have any culture of itself yet to sustain development of human race.
[/quote]
Take that "culture" bullsh*t back to your palm tree. Don't teach the colonists how to live, earthworm! Oh, and the Citadel is a space station, you know? Everybody wants to live there!
[/quote]

Exception to the rule. Afaik Citadel is exactly the place you most despise: place filled with people who take money for nothing, leeches and such.

[quote]
[quote]celuloid wrote...
Make a sum of people living in known colonies. It is not more than 110 million, I counted ~15 million. Writers did not give us more information to operate with. So who works in all your production facilities?
[/quote]
They are automated, and remotely operated.
[/quote]

It was time to face the facts. But you obviously don't want to save anyone except remotely controlled robots.
Probably nobody works anymore in your universe. Except Shepard. He kills people. And remotely controlled robots.

[Ice Cold J]

Arcian wrote...

Ice Cold J wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

I think the Council would more then happy to revoke Shepard's Specter status after what happen on Arrival.


And for the rest, where's the plothole?

Why? Spectre's are above the law, authorized to use whatever means necessary to get the job done.

Theoretically, by the time ME3 rolls around, The Reapers will be here and everyone will see what Shep did was necessary.

Shepard blew up a star system. Not on a job given to him by the Council, or a job given to him by the Alliance, or a job given by anyone. He blew up a star system fighting an enemy that the Council doesn't believe to exist, that the Alliance doesn't believe to exist and that no one else except conspiracy radicals believes exists.

Even if he had been there on the Council or Alliance's behalf, it's a galactic super-crime to cause irreperable harm to garden planets. Aratoht was a garden planet. Attacking colonies are also a crime, one which Saren had his spectre status revoked for.

Please stop assuming Shepard has a morality license to cause wanton atrocities and get away with it.

Hackett appears to allude to the fact that the Alliance believes the Reapers to exist. And if Anderson is the Councillor, he seems to believe you, so that's two for your good side.

You're right. The Council didn't send him there and it was an Alliance "black ops" mission, so they're gonna disavow any knowledge of it.

Again, yes. But there are many instances of Spectres causing collateral damage and getting away with it. Certainly not on this scale, but if the Council could be swayed, they could "dismiss" it as necessary.

I'm not assuming he has a license to get away with whatever he wants, but I'm pointing out that, since there was no choice whether or not to destroy the relay, there must be SOME way out of it since Paragon players (like myself) will be B.S. if there's not way to justify your actions.

[Zulu_DFA]

celuloid wrote...

1. And what does commander-level mean in real world? It is purely fictional rank at the level of lower-ranking officers, such as lieutenants.

You clearly don't know what are you talking about.

The ME Alliance Navy  ranks of "Lieutenant Commander", "Staff Commander", "Captain" correspond to the real world's USNavy ranks of "Lieutenant Commander", "Commander", "Captain". Those are senior officers. Junior officers are: "2nd Lieutenant", "1st Lieutenant", "Staff Lieutenant" (in ME), and "Ensign", "Lieutenant (Junior Grade)", "Lieutenant" (ral world USNavy).

Shepard is a senior officer. Just like David Anderson, before he is promoted to Rear Admiral. Kaidan Alenko is a junior officer.

Get your facts straight, then come back and try again talking about objectivity.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 04 avril 2011 - 01:53 .

[Zulu_DFA]

v3paR wrote...

i don't know if it was mentioned before but does any one consider "the trial" as simple hearing to set events in ME3. at the beginning of the game Shepard will be called to earth (so fans could see it) probably to answer a few questions about his past decisions (the important ones). this way players who played ME1/ME2 could confirm their actions (probably from save game) and new players will have some sort of "the story so far" info. we have similar thing in ME2 with Miranda.

That's right, only the trial, or interrogation, or imprisonment or any kind of questioning, makes no sense to be taking place on Earth.

To all the "homeworld" chanters: we, the Humans, are special and so great (in the ME universe anyway), because we aren't fixated on it, like, for example, those losers Quarians. Earth may be glorified (I, personally, can't see why), but it's still a glorified backwater locale. Get over it.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 04 avril 2011 - 01:56 .

[M8DMAN]

Hell if the Earth's Goverment even trys to but Shepard on Trial it would be Suicide. "Hey guy's! Lets put the only person who could possibly defeat the Reapers on Trial for killing a bunch of Batarians. That should go over swell!"

My guess is that the "Trial" will be interrupted by the Arrival of the Reaper's and Shepard will be Reinstated into the Alliance.

Modifié par M8DMAN, 04 avril 2011 - 04:37 .

[Pwener2313]

Ileanos07 wrote...

Actually I think it is this case. Even when you dont play Arrival you´d still end at trial simply because you worked with Cerberus.

No. You played (bought) it or not, it happened. That's the magic of continuity.

[Almostfaceman]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

v3paR wrote...

i don't know if it was mentioned before but does any one consider "the trial" as simple hearing to set events in ME3. at the beginning of the game Shepard will be called to earth (so fans could see it) probably to answer a few questions about his past decisions (the important ones). this way players who played ME1/ME2 could confirm their actions (probably from save game) and new players will have some sort of "the story so far" info. we have similar thing in ME2 with Miranda.

That's right, only the trial, or interrogation, or imprisonment or any kind of questioning, makes no sense to be taking place on Earth.

To all the "homeworld" chanters: we, the Humans, are special and so great (in the ME universe anyway), because we aren't fixated on it, like, for example, those losers Quarians. Earth may be glorified (I, personally, can't see why), but it's still a glorified backwater locale. Get over it.

What's awesome is that we don't have to get your permission to have a trial on Earth. Bwahahahahhaha!

[HappyHappyJoyJoy]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

v3paR wrote...

i don't know if it was mentioned before but does any one consider "the trial" as simple hearing to set events in ME3. at the beginning of the game Shepard will be called to earth (so fans could see it) probably to answer a few questions about his past decisions (the important ones). this way players who played ME1/ME2 could confirm their actions (probably from save game) and new players will have some sort of "the story so far" info. we have similar thing in ME2 with Miranda.

That's right, only the trial, or interrogation, or imprisonment or any kind of questioning, makes no sense to be taking place on Earth.

To all the "homeworld" chanters: we, the Humans, are special and so great (in the ME universe anyway), because we aren't fixated on it, like, for example, those losers Quarians. Earth may be glorified (I, personally, can't see why), but it's still a glorified backwater locale. Get over it.

What's awesome is that we don't have to get your permission to have a trial on Earth. Bwahahahahhaha!

You've still got the problem that the Batarians are not going to think a trial on Earth is going to be "fair" considering how much humans looooooove Batarians. 

[Almostfaceman]

HappyHappyJoyJoy wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

v3paR wrote...

i don't know if it was mentioned before but does any one consider "the trial" as simple hearing to set events in ME3. at the beginning of the game Shepard will be called to earth (so fans could see it) probably to answer a few questions about his past decisions (the important ones). this way players who played ME1/ME2 could confirm their actions (probably from save game) and new players will have some sort of "the story so far" info. we have similar thing in ME2 with Miranda.

That's right, only the trial, or interrogation, or imprisonment or any kind of questioning, makes no sense to be taking place on Earth.

To all the "homeworld" chanters: we, the Humans, are special and so great (in the ME universe anyway), because we aren't fixated on it, like, for example, those losers Quarians. Earth may be glorified (I, personally, can't see why), but it's still a glorified backwater locale. Get over it.

What's awesome is that we don't have to get your permission to have a trial on Earth. Bwahahahahhaha!

You've still got the problem that the Batarians are not going to think a trial on Earth is going to be "fair" considering how much humans looooooove Batarians. 

Meh, it's not an unresolvable problem.  What's going to happen (if the trial happens) is that the writers will come up with a reason.  And just like with everything else the writers do - there are people who are going to like it and there are people who won't like it.  Such is life.

[ajburges]

If Shepard's Spectre status is re-instated, (s)he's happily above the law until (s)he pisses off the council enough to be declared rogue.

Otherwise, the Alliance can try to claim him for any number of trumped up charges (like desertion) to keep possession of him/her. If they don't the Baterians may be within their rights to demand Shepard!

My problem is that they forgot that Spectre's are above the law.

[xzxzxz701]

ajburges wrote...

If Shepard's Spectre status is re-instated, (s)he's happily above the law until (s)he pisses off the council enough to be declared rogue.

Otherwise, the Alliance can try to claim him for any number of trumped up charges (like desertion) to keep possession of him/her. If they don't the Baterians may be within their rights to demand Shepard!

My problem is that they forgot that Spectre's are above the law.

Only if they are acting in the best interests of the lie. The Council does not believe the Reapers even are real (as far as we know) and Shep killed 300,000 innocent Batarians to stop the Reapers. The Council will probably take away Sheps Spectre status once they find out about it, then Shep would have to stand trial in a human court.

[HappyHappyJoyJoy]

ajburges wrote...

If Shepard's Spectre status is re-instated, (s)he's happily above the law until (s)he pisses off the council enough to be declared rogue.

Otherwise, the Alliance can try to claim him for any number of trumped up charges (like desertion) to keep possession of him/her. If they don't the Baterians may be within their rights to demand Shepard!

My problem is that they forgot that Spectre's are above the law.

Spectre's are above Council law, true, but Batarians aren't part of the Council anymore, so they don't care, and Shepard is still in the Alliance Military, and is still subject to their code. 

Knowing the Council, if they thought war would be imminent with the Batarians unless they threw Shepard under the bus by (say) removing his Spectre status... they'd take the easy option and give up Shepard.

[ajburges]

I wasn't trying to state the most probable scenario, just possible ones. Given the assumption that Shepard is in fact reinstated as a Spectre, then yes it's politics. I just posed what I thought was the most reasonable lead up to trying him/her under Earth courts instead of giving Shepard to the Council or Batarians.

I do like the thought that it's more of an Alliance ran military review of Shepard's actions in Arrival than a legal trial.

I was also throwing the "above the law" to simplify the Spectre legal status. Now that I think about it though, I want a Council debrief after Arrival. I can see the Turrian Councilor's reaction now .

[Zulu_DFA]

Almostfaceman wrote...

What's going to happen (if the trial happens) is that the writers will come up with a reason.

They've already done that: Hackett said so. And that's a -

[Leonia]

Plothole might not be the right word, the better term might be "retcon" since they are going against their own lore.

I do find the results of the poll linked in the OP to be interesting.

[Nashiktal]

I have to wonder why people funk that shep's "reinstated" specterhood is actually legit. It was practically the council holding a little treat over your head and calling you a good doggy.

Aside from that, even if shep actually had specter immunity, specters have been fired for less. Saran was fired and that was for attacking a lightly defended colony. Shep blew up a ****ing populated system of a race that is actively hostile against humanity.

Something tells me shep isn't getting a severence package.

[Nathan Redgrave]

At what point in Mass Effect lore has it been suggested that the Alliance wouldn't hold trials on Earth? It could (quite easily and with little actual effect on past lore) be said that the Alliance has some special location on Earth where representatives from various nations convene on matters involving offworld affairs, possibly an evolution of the United Nations or some such. If they wanted to make a public spectacle, which is exactly the purpose the trial serves (a message to the batarians: "We didn't do it!"), holding the trial at such a "significant" location rather than on an actual military base is a logical scenario. It also has a certain subtext to it--if a hate crime against another species were tried and convicted on the humans' home-world, by humans, it sends a message to other species that humanity doesn't hold with that crime and is willing to do something about it.

[Nathan Redgrave]

Nashiktal wrote...

I have to wonder why people funk that shep's "reinstated" specterhood is actually legit. It was practically the council holding a little treat over your head and calling you a good doggy.

Aside from that, even if shep actually had specter immunity, specters have been fired for less. Saran was fired and that was for attacking a lightly defended colony. Shep blew up a ****ing populated system of a race that is actively hostile against humanity.

Something tells me shep isn't getting a severence package.

Shepard's Spectre status is legit enough that Yasir comments on it. As a secondary point, Hackett mentions that evidence on Shepard's involvement is shoddy at best, so the Council may well not be inclined to take immediate action, especially if Shepard is showing an active willingness to go to trial for it. By the time the Council would get past that, I get the feeling the Reaper threat will be a little too real for them to discount the need for the sacrifice of the Bahak system.

EDIT: This said, Shepard's Spectre status could actually complicate matters, as the Council wouldn't want to be implicated in an attack on non-Council space, especially something as nasty as an entire system being wiped out. That said, the fun thing about the destruction of a whole system is that it kind of vaporized any evidence that Shepard was actually there.

Modifié par Nathan Redgrave, 04 avril 2011 - 06:27 .

[Zulu_DFA]

leonia42 wrote...

Plothole might not be the right word, the better term might be "retcon" since they are going against their own lore.

I do find the results of the poll linked in the OP to be interesting.

A retcon it would be if they declared in ME3, that the Alliance HQ, Parliament, etc. were on Earth and not aboard the Arcturus Station.

I don't think they are going to go all the way (or, who knows? ), and, like I've said, Shepard's trial can take place anywhere, including Feros, or Trebin or any other godforsaken piece of rock in space. But any locale other than the Citadel or the Arcturus Station, will need an explicit expalnation as to why the trial is taking place there. Even the Arcturus Station itself will need to be explained, if Shepard retains the SpecTRe status. I'm fine with the Council revoking it (again), but it must be at least mentioned in the narrative.

All this "significance", "homeworld" and "symbolism" talk is too much subjective and, therefore, not very much convincing.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 04 avril 2011 - 06:44 .

[Nathan Redgrave]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

All this "significance", "homeworld" and "symbolism" talk is too much subjective and, therefore, not very much convincing.

I'm just saying it's a likely scenario. You have your basic court in any old town and your fancy court in your home state's biggest city and you have the grandpappy of all courts at a location of extreme significance, and which trial goes where depends on what the crime's for. A trial for blowing up a system would obviously be held in the grandpappy of all courts, which could easily be excused as being on Earth, no retcon required.

[Leonia]

There's no reason a Spectre Shepard should be tried on Earth (or Arcturus), the words "political crap storm" come immediately to mind. It would give the Alliance more of a headache than war with the batarians to go against the Council.

We've already been "retconned" or "plotholed" or whatever with Hackett already putting us in the position of having to go to trial on Earth (wearing an Alliance uniform, uh are we really still Alliance after being listed KIA?). Regardless if the Council chooses to revoke Shep's Spectre status or not, Hackett's already decided how things are going to go down.

If that sort of major point is overlooked entirely, then we have every right to be annoyed. Sure, our Spectre status meant jack all in ME2 (outside of Council space, yadda yadda) but the one time that title should matter is in diplomatic immunity of which we are being told we no longer have. What the heck.

And anyway, if I were a batarian my knickers would be in a twist about Shepard not being tried on the Citadel or in batarian space because I can't trust those annoying humans to judge their shining hero figure properly. Everyone can see the trial is a farce, no different than the one Tali went through, but shouldn't some people be concerned with trying to cover up that fact by like.. you know, holding it on the Citadel which is both neutral ground and where a Spectre should be put on trial?

Modifié par leonia42, 04 avril 2011 - 06:38 .

[Pwener2313]

People are hipcrytes.

3 months ago: "We wanna go to Earth!"

2 weeks ago: "Shepard, your going to Earth"

45 minutes ago: "I don't wanna go to trial (Earth)!"

Modifié par Pwener2313, 04 avril 2011 - 06:38 .

[Leonia]

Pwener2313 wrote...

People are hipcrytes.

3 months ago: "We wanna go to Earth!"

2 weeks ago: "Shepard, your going to Earth"

45 minutes ago: "I don't wanna go to trial (Earth)!"

Why can't we go to Earth after the trial on the Citadel? What if the trial is interrupted by an incoming transmission of Reapers pouring through the Charon relay and the Alliance is requesting help? It would be consistent with the ME3 trailer and we'd still get to see Earth.

Modifié par leonia42, 04 avril 2011 - 06:42 .

[upsettingshorts]

Pwener2313 wrote...

People are hipcrytes.

3 months ago: "We wanna go to Earth!"

2 weeks ago: "Shepard, your going to Earth"

45 minutes ago: "I don't wanna go to trial (Earth)!"

It's more like:

3 months ago, group of people A: "We wanna go to Earth"   Group of people B: "It doesn't look like we'll be going to Earth and that's great! No need to post about it though"

2 week ago: "Shepard you're going to Earth!"
People A:  "Sweet.  I dont have to post about it anymore"
People B:  "Oh crap, I don't want to go there, I better voice my discontent!"