1529 réponses à ce sujet

[Zulu_DFA]

Kijin wrote...

Well, in Canada Courts-Martial can occur anywhere. And they tend to be tried in the nearest facility.

That's right, and as I've said, Earth is one relay jump farther from anywhere than the Arcturus Station. So, since Shepard has been committing his crimes all over the Galaxy except the Solar system, I can't see how Earth can pass up as the "nearest facility" in this "anywhere" argument.

[Lvl20DM]

This really isn't a plot-hole. You might see it as being inconsistent with the pre-established lore, but the fact that so many see it as at least plausible means it isn't a plot-hole. I hate to get caught up in semantics, but that's my take on it.

At the very beginning of the first game, the Normandy is leaving from Earth, not Arcturus Station. That should at least tell you that the Systems Alliance has some authority on Earth.

[Nashiktal]

Wait what? The fact that is IS inconsistent with pre-established lore means it IS a plothole. Whether people tolerate it or not is a different matter.

"A plot hole, or plothole, is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot"

[Bourne Endeavor]

Nashiktal wrote...

Wait what? The fact that is IS inconsistent with pre-established lore means it IS a plothole. Whether people tolerate it or not is a different matter.

"A plot hole, or plothole, is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot"

Unfortunately, Nash my friend. People seem to have difficulties accepting what are plotholes here. If they can imagine something else, apparently that negates it!

[Zulu_DFA]

Lvl20DM wrote...

This really isn't a plot-hole. You might see it as being inconsistent with the pre-established lore, but the fact that so many see it as at least plausible means it isn't a plot-hole. I hate to get caught up in semantics, but that's my take on it.

What Nashiltal said.

Lvl20DM wrote...

At the very beginning of the first game, the Normandy is leaving from Earth, not Arcturus Station. That should at least tell you that the Systems Alliance has some authority on Earth.

Might have something to do with the fact that Captain Anderson has some kinsfolk on Earth. Which doesn't mean Earth has any authority in the Alliance.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 12 avril 2011 - 03:50 .

[Swerodent]

/puts on tin foil hat
It´s obvious that Alliance command is located on Earth. Arcturus station is only a decoy to decieve humanitys enemies.
The codex is a fabrication of Alliance propaganda and as such cannot be trusted...
/takes off hat

[Nashiktal]

Anderson doesn't matter anymore, at least when it comes to helping shep politically.

[Avissel]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Might have something to do with the fact that Captain Anderson has some kinsfolk on Earth. Which doesn't mean Earth has any authority in the Alliance.

But.. The alliance parlament is made up of the Earth Nations that created the Systems Alliance in the first place. So...yes, Earth would have athourity because they ARE the athourity.

[Zulu_DFA]

Swerodent wrote...

/puts on tin foil hat
It´s obvious that Alliance command is located on Earth. Arcturus station is only a decoy to decieve humanitys enemies.
The codex is a fabrication of Alliance propaganda and as such cannot be trusted...
/takes off hat

Lol, somehow, I like this theory.

But shouldn't the Alliance maintain the fabrication then, by having the trial where it's supposed to be held, according to it?

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 12 avril 2011 - 04:11 .

[Nashiktal]

Avi, you are late so I'll give you the short story. The Alliance has all but officially staged a coup against Earth during the first contact war. The Alliance rules humanity, the individual nations on earth handle local policy. (local as invasion local, America Africa etc.) the Alliance capial is Arcturus station.

[candidate88766]

Nashiktal wrote...

Wait what? The fact that is IS inconsistent with pre-established lore means it IS a plothole. Whether people tolerate it or not is a different matter.

"A plot hole, or plothole, is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot"

I'd be interested in seeing evidence of any lore that directly states that Alliance trials cannot be held on Earth, or that the Alliance has no bases on Earth. Or indeed that a former (or indeed current) Alliance soldier cannot be tried anywhere other than Arcturus.

Modifié par candidate88766, 12 avril 2011 - 04:08 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Avissel wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Might have something to do with the fact that Captain Anderson has some kinsfolk on Earth. Which doesn't mean Earth has any authority in the Alliance.

But.. The alliance parlament is made up of the Earth Nations

Source?

Avissel wrote...

that created the Systems Alliance in the first place.

That was before the Alliance went rogue, and established its own government. On the Arcturus Station.

Avissel wrote...

So...yes, Earth would have athourity because they ARE the athourity.

No, Earth's states are "affiliated", just like any extrasolar Alliance colony.

[Almostfaceman]

candidate88766 wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Wait what? The fact that is IS inconsistent with pre-established lore means it IS a plothole. Whether people tolerate it or not is a different matter.

"A plot hole, or plothole, is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot"

I'd be interested in seeing evidence of any lore that directly states that Alliance trials cannot be held on Earth, or that the Alliance has no bases on Earth. Or indeed that a former (or indeed current) Alliance soldier cannot be tried anywhere other than Arcturus.

There is none, because Arcturus station is the capital of the Alliance that means all trials are held there, even though nothing says that all trials are held there.

[Avissel]

None of the codex entries I've read make it out that the Alliance "went rogue" from Earth.
When the governments of Earth were arguing over who should deal with Shanxi and how, the Alliance stepped up and dealt with it, the popularity gained allowed them to form the Parliament and cement their place as "humanity's face" in the galaxy.

It's never implied that Earth retains no over site over them.

The Parlament would be made up of the Earth Nations and Colony/spacers.

If the Alliance had staged a coup and formed thier own goverment, it probably would have been something more like a military state than a repasentive based goverment.

Modifié par Avissel, 12 avril 2011 - 04:24 .

[candidate88766]

Almostfaceman wrote...

candidate88766 wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Wait what? The fact that is IS inconsistent with pre-established lore means it IS a plothole. Whether people tolerate it or not is a different matter.

"A plot hole, or plothole, is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot"

I'd be interested in seeing evidence of any lore that directly states that Alliance trials cannot be held on Earth, or that the Alliance has no bases on Earth. Or indeed that a former (or indeed current) Alliance soldier cannot be tried anywhere other than Arcturus.

There is none, because Arcturus station is the capital of the Alliance that means all trials are held there, even though nothing says that all trials are held there.

Then there is no lore incosistency here, which some people on this thread continue to use as argument. As I have stated in this thread before, I agree Arcturus may make more sense. However, given that no contradiction of lore has taken place people cannot argue that it is a plot hole.

[candidate88766]

Avissel wrote...

None of the codex entries I've read make it out that the Alliance "went rogue" from Earth.
When the governments of Earth were arguing over who should deal with Shanxi and how, the Alliance stepped up and dealt with it, the popularity gained allowed them to form the Parliament and cement their place as "humanity's face" in the galaxy.

It's never implied that Earth retains no over site over them.

I think its just that the Alliance represents, and protects, Earth and humanity in general, sort of like a more powerful version of NATO or the UN. 

[Almostfaceman]

candidate88766 wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

candidate88766 wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Wait what? The fact that is IS inconsistent with pre-established lore means it IS a plothole. Whether people tolerate it or not is a different matter.

"A plot hole, or plothole, is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot"

I'd be interested in seeing evidence of any lore that directly states that Alliance trials cannot be held on Earth, or that the Alliance has no bases on Earth. Or indeed that a former (or indeed current) Alliance soldier cannot be tried anywhere other than Arcturus.

There is none, because Arcturus station is the capital of the Alliance that means all trials are held there, even though nothing says that all trials are held there.

Then there is no lore incosistency here, which some people on this thread continue to use as argument. As I have stated in this thread before, I agree Arcturus may make more sense. However, given that no contradiction of lore has taken place people cannot argue that it is a plot hole.

Exactly.  That pretty much sums it up.  Everybody here is speculating based on the evidence we do have, following their own logic.

[Almostfaceman]

candidate88766 wrote...

Avissel wrote...

None of the codex entries I've read make it out that the Alliance "went rogue" from Earth.
When the governments of Earth were arguing over who should deal with Shanxi and how, the Alliance stepped up and dealt with it, the popularity gained allowed them to form the Parliament and cement their place as "humanity's face" in the galaxy.

It's never implied that Earth retains no over site over them.

I think its just that the Alliance represents, and protects, Earth and humanity in general, sort of like a more powerful version of NATO or the UN. 

A very powerful version of the U.N. - those individual nations cede their authority to the Alliance in all matters galactic.  That's why we don't see a British representative on the citadel.  All the nations have thrown in their resources for ships and such in a cooperative effort known as - The Alliance.

[Someone With Mass]

Or perhaps since Shepard's human, it's required of him to stand trial on his homeworld. It's neither that big of a deal or a plot hole.

[Renegade133]

have you lot not heard of show trials ?

[Lvl20DM]

I need to learn that equivocations don't work on forum posts. This is not a plot hole. It isn't illogical or inconsistent to have the trial/interrogation on Earth. We know the Alliance has a presence in Earth - the Normandy disembarked from Earth, and we know from codex and other sources that the Alliance trains soldiers there. If the Alliance wants Shepherd on Earth for the inquiry, you might not think it makes sense, but it is at least plausible.

[candidate88766]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Exactly.  That pretty much sums it up.  Everybody here is speculating based on the evidence we do have, following their own logic.

I know, I just get a bit annoyed when people post their interpretation of partial evidence (we don't have all knowledge of how the legal system works in ME) as facts or proof. We all have the right to interpret the information presented in our own way, but when we don't have the full picture people shouldn't cry plot hole.

[Nashiktal]

Go and read the first contact war codex entry. The alliance, which was largely ignored at the time before the war. While earth nations argued about what to do, the alliance without permission took the fight to the turians.

Ever since then the alliance took the mantle and became the ruling body for humanity. To the alliance, earth is a well developed "colony." if you take notice, it's an alliance leader, not earth on the council. (earth is still divided between nations of various stages of advancement.) all the diplomacy and negotiations are between the alliance officials and other species. Any ruling that the alliance makes earth has to follow. (galactic policy)

[Someone With Mass]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Avissel wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Might have something to do with the fact that Captain Anderson has some kinsfolk on Earth. Which doesn't mean Earth has any authority in the Alliance.

But.. The alliance parlament is made up of the Earth Nations

Source?

Oh, I don't know. Maybe http://masseffect.wi...m/wiki/Alliance

It's not that hard to figure something like that out.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 12 avril 2011 - 04:31 .

[Nathan Redgrave]

Nashiktal wrote...

Wait what? The fact that is IS inconsistent with pre-established lore

Not what he said. He just said you see it as such.

Just pointing that out.