1529 réponses à ce sujet

[Almostfaceman]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Let me ask you something. Does it really matter if Shepard's trial is on Earth or the Arcturus station? I doubt Shepard is going to get convicted either, because the damn Reapers will show up and start destroying everything.

And I think it's actually safer for him to be on Earth than aboard some space station the Reapers can destroy with ease.

No, it doesn't really matter - if you look back a page or two in this thread Zulu's workin' on his thread's page count. 

[Zulu_DFA]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Source that:
Little to no input from Earth

"Systems Alliance" entry in the Codex"

"The Systems Alliance is an independent supranational government representing the interests of
humanity as a whole. The Alliance is responsible for the governance and defense of all extra-solar
colonies and space stations. [no mention of responsibility for Earth's defense, mind you]
...

Still, the Alliance was often disregarded by those on Earth until the First Contact War. While the national
governments dithered and bickered over who should lead the effort to liberate Shanxi, the Alliance fleet
struck decisively. Post-War public approval gave the Alliance the credibility to establish its own
Parliament and become the galactic face of humanity."
[mind you, the Alliance established its own Parliament, not Earth's nations]

Almostfaceman wrote...

And
Earth sucks all the resources without providing any

"Earth" entry in the Codex:

"The resource wealth of a dozen settled colonies and a hundred industrial outposts flows back to Earth"

(not "all the resources", thanfully, but a significat part.)

And

No indictation in the entire series that something is exported from Earth at all, except the Illusive Man's cigarettes!


Your turn to prove that Earth has a say and exports something.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 12 avril 2011 - 05:08 .

[Nathan Redgrave]

Nashiktal wrote...

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

Merchant2006 wrote...

Can someone inform me as to what the hell is going on here now?

People are assuming that the Alliance has no major presence on Earth, which by the way is @#$%ing stupid, and acting like this assumption is not an assumption, but established lore.

Actually its the other way around. Earth has little presence in the Alliance, and as such Shep being an Alliance citizen, and soldier, should be tried as such at the Alliance capital.

Which has no bearing on whether the Alliance has a strong presence on the planet itself, which is the relevant point to this question. It doesn't matter how much power the nation-states have over the Alliance; all that's necessary is that the Alliance have a major presence on Earth. Given that they're humanity's military arm, and the people who would have to do all the work if an alien force attacked Earth, it would be kind of stupid for them not to have a strong presence there.

We can argue about what role the Earth nations play in the Alliance all we want, but that has no real connection to the question of whether the Alliance would hold trials on Earth.

[Zulu_DFA]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Let me ask you something. Does it really matter if Shepard's trial is on Earth or the Arcturus station? I doubt Shepard is going to get convicted either, because the damn Reapers will show up and start destroying everything.

And I think it's actually safer for him to be on Earth than aboard some space station the Reapers can destroy with ease.

No, it doesn't really matter - if you look back a page or two in this thread Zulu's workin' on his thread's page count. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie]

Actually, it's you, my dear Facepalman, who's workin' on my thread's page count. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/cool.png[/smilie]

[Almostfaceman]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Source that:
Little to no input from Earth

"Systems Alliance" entry in the Codex"

"The Systems Alliance is an independent supranational government representing the interests of
humanity as a whole. The Alliance is responsible for the governance and defense of all extra-solar
colonies and space stations. [no mention of responsibility for Earth's defense, mind you]
...

Still, the Alliance was often disregarded by those on Earth until the First Contact War. While the national
governments dithered and bickered over who should lead the effort to liberate Shanxi, the Alliance fleet
struck decisively. Post-War public approval gave the Alliance the credibility to establish its own
Parliament and become the galactic face of humanity."
[mind you, the Alliance established its own Parliament not Earth's nations]

Almostfaceman wrote...

And
Earth sucks all the resources without providing any

"Earth" entry in the Codex:

"The resource wealth of a dozen settled colonies and a hundred industrial outposts flows back to Earth"

(not "all the resources", thanfully, but a significat part.)

And

No indictation in the entire series that something is exported from Earth at all, except the Illusive Man's cigarettes!

Again, prove it.  All I've seen so far is that Earth takes in resources - no indication from the codex it doesn't produce resources.

Again, prove that Earth has little to no input.  It's an independent legislative body - so is the Federal Government - so what?  Where's the proof about no input from Earth?

[Almostfaceman]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Let me ask you something. Does it really matter if Shepard's trial is on Earth or the Arcturus station? I doubt Shepard is going to get convicted either, because the damn Reapers will show up and start destroying everything.

And I think it's actually safer for him to be on Earth than aboard some space station the Reapers can destroy with ease.

No, it doesn't really matter - if you look back a page or two in this thread Zulu's workin' on his thread's page count. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie]

Actually, it's you, my dear Facepalman, who's workin' on my thread's page count. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/cool.png[/smilie]

And it so clearly bothers me - not. 

[Almostfaceman]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Let me ask you something. Does it really matter if Shepard's trial is on Earth or the Arcturus station? I doubt Shepard is going to get convicted either, because the damn Reapers will show up and start destroying everything.

And I think it's actually safer for him to be on Earth than aboard some space station the Reapers can destroy with ease.

No, it doesn't really matter - if you look back a page or two in this thread Zulu's workin' on his thread's page count. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie]

Actually, it's you, my dear Facepalman, who's workin' on my thread's page count. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/cool.png[/smilie]

And please refrain from the name-calling - you may wanna review points 2 and 3 in the site rules.  Thanks. 

[Zulu_DFA]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Again, prove it.  All I've seen so far is that Earth takes in resources - no indication from the codex it doesn't produce resources.

No, you prove it! Show me evidence that Earth is exporting!

Almostfaceman wrote...

Again, prove that Earth has little to no input.  It's an independent legislative body - so is the Federal Government - so what?  Where's the proof about no input from Earth?

No, you prove it! Show me evidence that Earth is influencing!

[Zulu_DFA]

Almostfaceman wrote...

name-calling

Where?

[Someone With Mass]

That parliament must consist of something.

And no nation on this Earth would give up all their power to some leaders someone came up with out of nowhere.

[Sajuro]

Here's a reason, if they (the council, the alliance, whoever) wants him to be tried on earth, shep gets tried on earth.

[Almostfaceman]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Again, prove it.  All I've seen so far is that Earth takes in resources - no indication from the codex it doesn't produce resources.

No, you prove it! Show me evidence that Earth is exporting!

Almostfaceman wrote...

Again, prove that Earth has little to no input.  It's an independent legislative body - so is the Federal Government - so what?  Where's the proof about no input from Earth?

No, you prove it! Show me evidence that Earth is influencing!

You're the one making the assertion they don't produce - prove it. 
You're the one making the assertion that Earth doesn't have any influence - prove it.

[Nashiktal]

Someone With Mass wrote...

That parliament must consist of something.

And no nation on this Earth would give up all their power to some leaders someone came up with out of nowhere.

Well where is Earth's fleet  then? Kinda hard to say no to someone who has control of all the spaceships.

[Nathan Redgrave]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Again, prove it.  All I've seen so far is that Earth takes in resources - no indication from the codex it doesn't produce resources.

Again, prove that Earth has little to no input.  It's an independent legislative body - so is the Federal Government - so what?  Where's the proof about no input from Earth?

I doubt there's no input from Earth, but I don't think we're talking about the same kind of input. The Alliance, being the galactic face of humanity, undoubtedly has an interest in mediating between the larger galaxy and Earth when the situation calls for it. The nation-states themselves, however, would be more concerned about governing themselves than governing the vastness above, so the Alliance having more or less free reign over its own affairs makes sense (hence, it formed "its own" parliament, rather than having a parliament formed for it by Earth's nations). It's simple, to the point, and effective. Too much national interest would just convolute the process.

As for resources, I very much doubt that Earth produces much of interest to the larger galaxy in that sense. There're references to food and agricultural products (such as tobacco) that have made their way out into the larger galaxy, but that's another matter. Having been lived on and mined halfway to death prior to humanity's jump to the stars, Earth doesn't appear to be in much of a position to provide a significant supply of resources for other worlds--certainly not on the level that the Alliance would obtain from uncharted or uninhabited worlds.

Modifié par Nathan Redgrave, 12 avril 2011 - 05:19 .

[Almostfaceman]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

name-calling

Where?

No wonder you can't find the resoures Earth produces - you can't even find where you name-called.

[Zulu_DFA]

candidate88766 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Please find the line in the in-game Codex, where it states that the Alliance's Parliament is "made up of Earth's nations", or that the Earth's nations (governments) even elect (appoint) their official representatives to the Alliance's Parliament.

http://masseffect.wi...ystems_Alliance

So, where is that line there?

[Zulu_DFA]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

name-calling

Where?

No wonder you can't find the resoures Earth produces - you can't even find where you name-called.

That's because you're not helping me!

Show me where I name-called, and show me where Earth exports its products.

[Nathan Redgrave]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Show me where I name-called, and show me where Earth exports its products.

If it helps, Retribution references tobacco as a product both exported and grown on other worlds by other races. Not that this makes up for the oodles and oodles of vital resources other worlds bring in, but it's something.

[Zulu_DFA]

Sajuro wrote...

Here's a reason, if they (the council, the alliance, whoever) wants him to be tried on earth, shep gets tried on earth.

And where is the reason for the Council, the Alliance or whoever to want him be tried on Earth - away from where the most important political and military figures seat?

[Someone With Mass]

Nashiktal wrote...
Well where is Earth's fleet  then? Kinda hard to say no to someone who has control of all the spaceships.

Eh...the Alliance fleet is Earth's fleet. It's not like one nation on Earth suddenly decided that they wanted to create an organization out of the blue.

Do you really think there was only one faction on Earth that built those ships? Yeah. I think it would take a little more than nine-ten years to build all those ships if it was just one party that was authorized to design and create them.

[Zulu_DFA]

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Show me where I name-called, and show me where Earth exports its products.

If it helps, Retribution references tobacco as a product both exported and grown on other worlds by other races. Not that this makes up for the oodles and oodles of vital resources other worlds bring in, but it's something.

Lol, I mentioned TIM's smokes myself. it is also mentioned that it's som kind of a luxury product, as opposed to the more cheap volus-made tobacco.

Hardly an evidence that Earth is indispensible for the Alliance's economy.

[Almostfaceman]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

name-calling

Where?

No wonder you can't find the resoures Earth produces - you can't even find where you name-called.

That's because you're not helping me!

Show me where I name-called, and show me where Earth exports its products.

I can show you Earth's #1 export - the Alliance.  The Earth produced the Alliance.

The point I'm making, Zulu, with this silly back-n-forth is that you're making an assumption - because you have no facts to point at specifically saying that Earth does not produce.

All I have to do is look at Exogeni as an example of Earth producing a human colony.  If Earth was this big suck-hole, why are they in the business of colonization?  That money and resources belong in the hole dammit!  

[Nathan Redgrave]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Hardly an evidence that Earth is indispensible for the Alliance's economy.

I know. I was being ironic.

[Someone With Mass]

Civil war. It would happen if the colonies the Alliance created declared themselves independent.

[Zulu_DFA]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...
Well where is Earth's fleet  then? Kinda hard to say no to someone who has control of all the spaceships.

Eh...the Alliance fleet is Earth's fleet. It's not like one nation on Earth suddenly decided that they wanted to create an organization out of the blue.

Um, the Alliance fleet is the Alliance's fleet. It took action without Earth's authorities consent during the FCW, thus proving the de facto independence of Earth, reindorces three years later by the establishment of the Alliance Parliamnet.

Someone With Mass wrote...

Do you really think there was only one faction on Earth that built those ships?

The Alliance builds it's own ships now, at the Arcturus Station. They've been churning out a new dreadnought every year. The Alliance isn't like the Quarians, you know, who live aboard ancient dilapidated craft to cling to their fantom "homeworld".

Someone With Mass wrote...

Yeah. I think it would take a little more than nine-ten years to build all those ships if it was just one party that was authorized to design and create them.

Even those ships that may have been built before the Alliance's independence are now operated by the Alliance, independent of Earth's governments.