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[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Still doesn't change the fact that it was founded by the governments on Earth.

Still doesn't change the fact that it became independent almost 30 years ago.

Is it really impossible to hold the trial on Earth?

Not impossible. But without an proper explanation it's a plot hole.

How about the Alliance putting up a show for the Batarians? And they took Earth (Even through it might not be the part of the Alliance) as to show that humanity as a whole condemns Shepard and his actions?

That is how I understood it.

Modifié par Lizardviking, 12 avril 2011 - 07:04 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Fixers0 wrote...

Wrong, The offical ideology of North Korean is the Juche idea.

But, it has it's roots in Marxism, and the Red Star is there on their flag for a reason.

[Almostfaceman]

The homeworld and capital of humanity is entering a new golden age. The resource wealth of a dozen settled colonies and a hundred industrial outposts flows back to Earth, fueling great works of industry, commerce, and art. The great cities are greening as arcology skyscrapers and telecommuting allow more efficient use of land.

-codex for Earth

Modifié par Almostfaceman, 12 avril 2011 - 07:05 .

[Almostfaceman]

Arcian wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Still doesn't change the fact that it was founded by the governments on Earth.

Still doesn't change the fact that it became independent almost 30 years ago.

But it is NOT independent. The codex entry is contradicting itself (now there's a plot hole, if anything). A governmental body that is supranational cannot be independent from the nations that rules it jointly. It's a separate entity yes, but calling it independent is like saying the body is independent from the organs.

Jesus Christ, ****ing semantics.

Not only that - check out this codex:

The homeworld and capital of humanity is entering a new golden age. The resource wealth of a dozen settled colonies and a hundred industrial outposts flows back to Earth, fueling great works of industry, commerce, and art. The great cities are greening as arcology skyscrapers and telecommuting allow more efficient use of land.

Modifié par Almostfaceman, 12 avril 2011 - 07:07 .

[Avissel]

http://en.wikipedia....ry_dictatorship
Current cases

* North Korea – De facto since 1994, National Defence Commission of North Korea (proclaimed highest authority in 1998)

[AquamanOS]

Why is it a plot hole that humanity trying one of it's own would choose to hold the trial on the human homeworld, where all the humans can see and Shepard be made an example of? The point of the trial is to prevent a war between humanity and the Batarian's.

Having it on the Citadel would make it an open galactic incident with all the races getting involved. Having it at Arcturus Station would make it a solely military matter when Shepard was acting independantly at the time.

[McBeath]

Oh god, this again!

Perhaps instead of slavishly following codex entries in previous games Bioware decided to make changes or fill in missing/hinted at info in the interest of making the game better.

Who's to say that the Alliance cannot hold a trial on Earth, or in one of it's Nations? How many times have war crimes been tried in various locations in history? Often times those decisions have more to do with the political scene at the time than the "rules as written" code on conduct in most militaries. 

The Alliance can do whatever Bioware feels like writing into thier story... maybe some as yet unseen section of the Alliance Charter states that any memeber of the Alliance must be tried in thier Nation of birth?

Shepard is a hero and well know to the public. Regardless of whether or not your Shepard has the Star of Terra, for example, he's still the first human Spectre, savior of the Citidel, ect. Perhaps the choice to hold the trial in a more open venue has to do the the politics of it all.

That being said, the game wouldn't be near as cool if you watched the Reapers fly on past the Alliance Deep space station on thier way to Earth.

Fortunately Bioware owns the IP and not Zulu, so thier free to make whatever changes they like to produce a good game. It's really up to them. If they want the trial to be on Earth then so be it. It's just a game, so why are people so hung up on some tiny line in a codex in game(that was only meant to flesh out the universe your playing in, not act as a bible for thier IP).

Cheers. McBeath

Modifié par McBeath, 12 avril 2011 - 07:12 .

[Someone With Mass]

The Alliance is not independent from Earth. If Earth falls, the Alliance would be severely hurt. Because I assume Earth is where they have several of their shipyards, unless they've moved them for some convenient reason. Not to mention that the manpower would drop like flies. And the Alliance would be without a government for quite some time.

[Zulu_DFA]

Lizardviking wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Still doesn't change the fact that it was founded by the governments on Earth.

Still doesn't change the fact that it became independent almost 30 years ago.

Is it really impossible to hold the trial on Earth?

Not impossible. But without an proper explanation it's a plot hole.

How about the Alliance putting up a show for the Batarians? And they took Earth (Even through it might not be the capital of the Alliance) as to show that humanity as a whole condemns Shepard and his actions?

That is how I understood it.

1. The Alliance putting a show for the Batarians is a plot hole of itself. The Alliance should be happy to deny any involvement, just as it intended from the very start. Would they put Kenson on trial if she wasn't captured and carried out the plan without Shepard's involvement? With Shepard's being involved though, the best opportunity for the denial would be to pin the whole affair on Shepard... and declare him "a Council's mad dog, not ours!" => trial on the Citadel.

2. And since "the face of Humanity as a whole" is the Alliance, which has its capital on the Arcturus Station, this explanation would be lame. Becasue, the Batarians always had to deal with the Alliance acting from the Arcturus Station. And, given the Batarian cast system culture, they'll probably wouldn'teve understand what's the catch about having the trial away from where the supreme Human rulers seat. (I would welcome even this lame explanation though, if it's clearly stated in the game).

3. The Council's indiference to the matter must also be explained, at least for those Sheaprds who retain the spectre status.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 12 avril 2011 - 07:15 .

[CroGamer002]

Fixers0 wrote...

Wrong, The offical ideology of North Korean is the Juche idea.

It's still communist.

Like Tito's idea in former Yugoslavia.
Communist system combined with capitalism and Yugoslavia was most advanced communist country( before SFRY most countries in former Yugoslavia were still in medieval standards!).



You know, Leninist, Stalinist, Titoist and I guess Jucheist?

[Almostfaceman]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Still doesn't change the fact that it was founded by the governments on Earth.

Still doesn't change the fact that it became independent almost 30 years ago.

Is it really impossible to hold the trial on Earth?

Not impossible. But without an proper explanation it's a plot hole.

How about the Alliance putting up a show for the Batarians? And they took Earth (Even through it might not be the capital of the Alliance) as to show that humanity as a whole condemns Shepard and his actions?

That is how I understood it.

2. And since "the face of Humanity as a whole" is the Alliance, which has its capital on the Arcturus Station, this explanation would be lame. Becasue, the Batarians always had to deal with the Alliance acting from the Arcturus Station. And, given the Batarian cast system culture, they'll probably wouldn'teve understand what's the catch about having the trial away from where the supreme Human rulers seat. (I would welcome even this lame explanation though, if it's clearly stated in the game).

Per the codex for Earth:

The homeworld and capital of humanity is entering a new golden age. The resource wealth of a dozen settled colonies and a hundred industrial outposts flows back to Earth, fueling great works of industry, commerce, and art. The great cities are greening as arcology skyscrapers and telecommuting allow more efficient use of land.

[Moiaussi]

The trial is at Earth instead of at Alliance HQ or the Citadel for the same reason that all the more recent Star Trek films have had Earth inexplicably under attack instead of UFP HQ, or some other world(s).

Writers are convinced that viewers/gamers are incapable of identifying with anywhere other than Earth.

[Zulu_DFA]

Almostfaceman wrote...

The homeworld and capital of humanity is entering a new golden age. The resource wealth of a dozen settled colonies and a hundred industrial outposts flows back to Earth, fueling great works of industry, commerce, and art. The great cities are greening as arcology skyscrapers and telecommuting allow more efficient use of land.

-codex for Earth

Explain "capital of humanity"? Humanity is not a legal term. Hence, metaphor.

Also:

"Hostilities peaked with the Skyllian Blitz of 2176, an attack on the human capital of Elysium by batarian-
funded pirates and slavers."

- Codex for "Batarians".

So maybe Shepard should be tried on Elysium?

[ObserverStatus]

If Saren had his Spectre status revoked for working with Geth, murdering Nihlus, and attacking Eden Prime, why can't Shepard have his/her status revoked for working with Cerberus, murdering Tela Vasir and attacking Arahot? I woudn't be surprised if in Mass Effect 3 other Spectres are sent to bring in Shepard.

[Almostfaceman]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

The homeworld and capital of humanity is entering a new golden age. The resource wealth of a dozen settled colonies and a hundred industrial outposts flows back to Earth, fueling great works of industry, commerce, and art. The great cities are greening as arcology skyscrapers and telecommuting allow more efficient use of land.

-codex for Earth

Explain "capital of humanity"? Humanity is not a legal term. Hence, metaphor.

Also:

"Hostilities peaked with the Skyllian Blitz of 2176, an attack on the human capital of Elysium by batarian-
funded pirates and slavers."

- Codex for "Batarians".

So maybe Shepard should be tried on Elysium?

Nah, it's the capital of humanity - it says so right there in the codex. It doesn't say "metaphorical" capital, now does it?

Earth is the capital of humanity - per the codex.

[ObserverStatus]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

The homeworld and capital of humanity is entering a new golden age. The resource wealth of a dozen settled colonies and a hundred industrial outposts flows back to Earth, fueling great works of industry, commerce, and art. The great cities are greening as arcology skyscrapers and telecommuting allow more efficient use of land.

-codex for Earth

Explain "capital of humanity"? Humanity is not a legal term. Hence, metaphor.

Also:

"Hostilities peaked with the Skyllian Blitz of 2176, an attack on the human capital of Elysium by batarian-
funded pirates and slavers."

- Codex for "Batarians".

So maybe Shepard should be tried on Elysium?

According to the codex, Arcturus Station is the Capital of the  Alliance and seat of the parliament.

[Someone With Mass]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Explain "capital of humanity"? Humanity is not a legal term. Hence, metaphor.

Also:

"Hostilities peaked with the Skyllian Blitz of 2176, an attack on the human capital of Elysium by batarian-
funded pirates and slavers."

- Codex for "Batarians".

So maybe Shepard should be tried on Elysium?

The capital on Elysium that's controlled by humans. Is it really that hard for you to understand?


Oh, I'm sorry. You support Cerberus. Of course you won't understand.

[CroGamer002]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

The homeworld and capital of humanity is entering a new golden age. The resource wealth of a dozen settled colonies and a hundred industrial outposts flows back to Earth, fueling great works of industry, commerce, and art. The great cities are greening as arcology skyscrapers and telecommuting allow more efficient use of land.

-codex for Earth

Explain "capital of humanity"? Humanity is not a legal term. Hence, metaphor.

Also:

"Hostilities peaked with the Skyllian Blitz of 2176, an attack on the human capital of Elysium by batarian-
funded pirates and slavers."

- Codex for "Batarians".

So maybe Shepard should be tried on Elysium?

Word capital has many meanings.

[Zulu_DFA]

Someone With Mass wrote...

The Alliance is not independent from Earth. If Earth falls, the Alliance would be severely hurt. Because I assume Earth is where they have several of their shipyards, unless they've moved them for some convenient reason. Not to mention that the manpower would drop like flies. And the Alliance would be without a government for quite some time.

And I read the Codex:


=== Starships: Dreadnought ===

"Humanity has six with an additional hull under construction at Arcturus Station."

[Almostfaceman]

bobobo878 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

The homeworld and capital of humanity is entering a new golden age. The resource wealth of a dozen settled colonies and a hundred industrial outposts flows back to Earth, fueling great works of industry, commerce, and art. The great cities are greening as arcology skyscrapers and telecommuting allow more efficient use of land.

-codex for Earth

Explain "capital of humanity"? Humanity is not a legal term. Hence, metaphor.

Also:

"Hostilities peaked with the Skyllian Blitz of 2176, an attack on the human capital of Elysium by batarian-
funded pirates and slavers."

- Codex for "Batarians".

So maybe Shepard should be tried on Elysium?

According to the codex, Arcturus Station is the Capital of the  Alliance and seat of the parliament.

Yup, and according to the codex, Earth is the capital of humanity:

The homeworld and capital of humanity is entering a new golden age. The resource wealth of a dozen settled colonies and a hundred industrial outposts flows back to Earth, fueling great works of industry, commerce, and art. The great cities are greening as arcology skyscrapers and telecommuting allow more efficient use of land.

[Almostfaceman]

Now, since we've established that Earth is the capital of humanity per the codex, it doesn't in the slightest break "lore" that Shepard be tried at the capital of humanity. He doesn't have to be tried there, but it certainly isn't plot-breaking.

[Zulu_DFA]

Arcian wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Still doesn't change the fact that it was founded by the governments on Earth.

Still doesn't change the fact that it became independent almost 30 years ago.

But it is NOT independent. The codex entry is contradicting itself (now there's a plot hole, if anything). A governmental body that is supranational cannot be independent from the nations that rules it jointly. It's a separate entity yes, but calling it independent is like saying the body is independent from the organs.

Jesus Christ, ****ing semantics.

Codex: Alliance is independent.
Arcian: no it's not.

[CroGamer002]

ZULU, you seriously think that countries like United North American States, United European States, Peoples Republic of China and India would allow Alliance to run political and military show in galactic community for humanity all alone without any supervision?

[Someone With Mass]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
And I read the Codex:


=== Starships: Dreadnought ===

"Humanity has six with an additional hull under construction at Arcturus Station."

And where did they build their spaceships before Arcturus station was finished, hm?