1529 réponses à ce sujet

[Zulu_DFA]

bobobo878 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

The homeworld and capital of humanity is entering a new golden age. The resource wealth of a dozen settled colonies and a hundred industrial outposts flows back to Earth, fueling great works of industry, commerce, and art. The great cities are greening as arcology skyscrapers and telecommuting allow more efficient use of land.

-codex for Earth

Explain "capital of humanity"? Humanity is not a legal term. Hence, metaphor.

Also:

"Hostilities peaked with the Skyllian Blitz of 2176, an attack on the human capital of Elysium by batarian-
funded pirates and slavers."

- Codex for "Batarians".

So maybe Shepard should be tried on Elysium?

According to the codex, Arcturus Station is the Capital of the  Alliance and seat of the parliament.

Listen to this man, Facepalm! He disagrees with Zulu, and he is right!!!

[Moiaussi]

[quote]Almostfaceman wrote...

According to the codex, Arcturus Station is the Capital of the  Alliance and seat of the parliament.

[/quote]

Yup, and according to the codex, Earth is the capital of humanity:

The homeworld and capital of humanity is entering a new golden age. The resource wealth of a dozen settled colonies and a hundred industrial outposts flows back to Earth, fueling great works of industry, commerce, and art. The great cities are greening as arcology skyscrapers and telecommuting allow more efficient use of land.

[/quote]

Zulu is right on this one though.. "Humanity" isn't a political body. It is a cultural and racial body, but not a political one. Even to the most generous interpretation of the entries there is a contradiction.

[Almostfaceman]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

The homeworld and capital of humanity is entering a new golden age. The resource wealth of a dozen settled colonies and a hundred industrial outposts flows back to Earth, fueling great works of industry, commerce, and art. The great cities are greening as arcology skyscrapers and telecommuting allow more efficient use of land.

-codex for Earth

Explain "capital of humanity"? Humanity is not a legal term. Hence, metaphor.

Also:

"Hostilities peaked with the Skyllian Blitz of 2176, an attack on the human capital of Elysium by batarian-
funded pirates and slavers."

- Codex for "Batarians".

So maybe Shepard should be tried on Elysium?

According to the codex, Arcturus Station is the Capital of the  Alliance and seat of the parliament.

Listen to this man, Facepalm! He disagrees with Zulu, and he is right!!!

Ah, here we go with the name-calling again.  One more time and I'm sending a pm to a mod - keep it civil.

[Almostfaceman]

Moiaussi wrote...

Zulu is right on this one though.. "Humanity" isn't a political body. It is a cultural and racial body, but not a political one. Even to the most generous interpretation of the entries there is a contradiction.

Of course there's a contradiction - that's my point.

Modifié par Almostfaceman, 12 avril 2011 - 07:37 .

[Someone With Mass]

Arcian wrote...

Let Zulu hate Earth if he wants. I've given up on trying to reason with him. Natural selection will deal with that problem later.

Can do. 

Let trolls be trolls.

[Moiaussi]

Arcian wrote...

Let Zulu hate Earth if he wants. I've given up on trying to reason with him. Natural selection will deal with that problem later.

How does pointing out that Arcturus is the seat of Alliance power equate to hating Earth? By inference, you must obviously feel that the Alliance itself 'hates' Earth. In fact, obviously all Alliance colonies must, in your opinion, 'hate Earth' since if they didn't hate Earth they would still be living there.

[ObserverStatus]

I'm pretty sure that Arcturus Station is the closest thing to "The Capital of Humanity" as we are going to get. Earth is the homeworld of Humanity, but Humans are a species, not a political body.

[Zulu_DFA]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

The homeworld and capital of humanity is entering a new golden age. The resource wealth of a dozen settled colonies and a hundred industrial outposts flows back to Earth, fueling great works of industry, commerce, and art. The great cities are greening as arcology skyscrapers and telecommuting allow more efficient use of land.

-codex for Earth

Explain "capital of humanity"? Humanity is not a legal term. Hence, metaphor.

Also:

"Hostilities peaked with the Skyllian Blitz of 2176, an attack on the human capital of Elysium by batarian-
funded pirates and slavers."

- Codex for "Batarians".

So maybe Shepard should be tried on Elysium?

According to the codex, Arcturus Station is the Capital of the  Alliance and seat of the parliament.

Listen to this man, Facepalm! He disagrees with Zulu, and he is right!!!

Ah, here we go with the name-calling again.  One more time and I'm sending a pm to a mod - keep it civil.

Got anything else to say, Face? If not, don't let the door hit you on your way out of MY thread.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 12 avril 2011 - 07:44 .

[Almostfaceman]

Moiaussi wrote...

Arcian wrote...

Let Zulu hate Earth if he wants. I've given up on trying to reason with him. Natural selection will deal with that problem later.

How does pointing out that Arcturus is the seat of Alliance power equate to hating Earth? By inference, you must obviously feel that the Alliance itself 'hates' Earth. In fact, obviously all Alliance colonies must, in your opinion, 'hate Earth' since if they didn't hate Earth they would still be living there.

No, no, you've missed Zulu's descriptors for Earth - read through the thread.

[Almostfaceman]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

The homeworld and capital of humanity is entering a new golden age. The resource wealth of a dozen settled colonies and a hundred industrial outposts flows back to Earth, fueling great works of industry, commerce, and art. The great cities are greening as arcology skyscrapers and telecommuting allow more efficient use of land.

-codex for Earth

Explain "capital of humanity"? Humanity is not a legal term. Hence, metaphor.

Also:

"Hostilities peaked with the Skyllian Blitz of 2176, an attack on the human capital of Elysium by batarian-
funded pirates and slavers."

- Codex for "Batarians".

So maybe Shepard should be tried on Elysium?

According to the codex, Arcturus Station is the Capital of the  Alliance and seat of the parliament.

Listen to this man, Facepalm! He disagrees with Zulu, and he is right!!!

Ah, here we go with the name-calling again.  One more time and I'm sending a pm to a mod - keep it civil.

Got anything else to say, Face? In not, don't let the door hit you on your way out of MY thread.

Last I checked this was Bioware's thread.  

[Zulu_DFA]

Arcian wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Codex: Alliance is independent.
Arcian: no it's not.

Cool argument, bro. Look up the definition on "supranational". I'd give you the Wikipedia entry, but you apparently hate wikipedias.

No-no-no, go on, give me the link. Unlike the ME Wiki, the Wikipedia uses references, so I can always find out the primary sources.

[Moiaussi]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Moiaussi wrote...

Zulu is right on this one though.. "Humanity" isn't a political body. It is a cultural and racial body, but not a political one. Even to the most generous interpretation of the entries there is a contradiction.

Of course there's a contradiction - that's my point.

It is only a contradiction if you take the entry for Earth generously and literally rather than figuratively. Earth might be the cultural capital without being the political capital. Unless Shepard is on trial for a bad musical record though, the political capital would be the more appropriate place for a trial.

In fact, neither the Alliance nor Humanity generally have jurisdiction. If this is over Arrival it didn't happen in Alliance (or human) space, but in Batarian space. The Council could claim jurisdiction on the grounds of Spectre status, but if Shepard wasn't reinstated, they wouldn't even have jurisdiction. The Batarians would.

[Almostfaceman]

bobobo878 wrote...

I'm pretty sure that Arcturus Station is the closest thing to "The Capital of Humanity" as we are going to get. Earth is the homeworld of Humanity, but Humans are a species, not a political body.

Ah, then why does the codex call Earth the capital of humanity then?  Hmmm.  I think it sorta explains why in the codex.

[Zulu_DFA]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

The homeworld and capital of humanity is entering a new golden age. The resource wealth of a dozen settled colonies and a hundred industrial outposts flows back to Earth, fueling great works of industry, commerce, and art. The great cities are greening as arcology skyscrapers and telecommuting allow more efficient use of land.

-codex for Earth

Explain "capital of humanity"? Humanity is not a legal term. Hence, metaphor.

Also:

"Hostilities peaked with the Skyllian Blitz of 2176, an attack on the human capital of Elysium by batarian-
funded pirates and slavers."

- Codex for "Batarians".

So maybe Shepard should be tried on Elysium?

According to the codex, Arcturus Station is the Capital of the  Alliance and seat of the parliament.

Listen to this man, Facepalm! He disagrees with Zulu, and he is right!!!

Ah, here we go with the name-calling again.  One more time and I'm sending a pm to a mod - keep it civil.

Got anything else to say, Face? In not, don't let the door hit you on your way out of MY thread.

Last I checked this was Bioware's thread.  [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie]

You still here? OK, stay. You're entertaining, after all, so I don't mind a free bump.

[candidate88766]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Arcian wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Codex: Alliance is independent.
Arcian: no it's not.

Cool argument, bro. Look up the definition on "supranational". I'd give you the Wikipedia entry, but you apparently hate wikipedias.

No-no-no, go on, give me the link. Unlike the ME Wiki, the Wikipedia uses references, so I can always find out the primary sources.

Actually, having read up on what a supranational union is there is no reason it can't be an independant body to which the governments delegate authority to. So it seems Zulu may be right about Earth not having any major control over the Alliance's Parliament - which I think is what is being argued now but frankly I'm not sure anymore.

[Almostfaceman]

Moiaussi wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Moiaussi wrote...

Zulu is right on this one though.. "Humanity" isn't a political body. It is a cultural and racial body, but not a political one. Even to the most generous interpretation of the entries there is a contradiction.

Of course there's a contradiction - that's my point.

It is only a contradiction if you take the entry for Earth generously and literally rather than figuratively. Earth might be the cultural capital without being the political capital. Unless Shepard is on trial for a bad musical record though, the political capital would be the more appropriate place for a trial.

In fact, neither the Alliance nor Humanity generally have jurisdiction. If this is over Arrival it didn't happen in Alliance (or human) space, but in Batarian space. The Council could claim jurisdiction on the grounds of Spectre status, but if Shepard wasn't reinstated, they wouldn't even have jurisdiction. The Batarians would.

Then again it could be also considered the political capital since the Alliance is a supranational body made up of Earth government affiliates.  My point being that Earth is still considered the capital of humanity and the Alliance is the political and military vehicle for humanity and humanity's colonies.

Modifié par Almostfaceman, 12 avril 2011 - 07:59 .

[DashRunner92]

Why are people even bothering to argue. For one, we have no idea how people are tried for such a crime that scale in the Mass Effect Universe, that's up for the developers decide, no matter how much useless information you throw, NOTHING, even concerning law today, does not even apply as a valid argument, for all we know they have major trials at a species' homeworld. We also don't know how the plot is going to roll out so saying it is a plot hole is completely invalid.

[Zulu_DFA]

Arcian wrote...

Moiaussi wrote...

Arcian wrote...

Let Zulu hate Earth if he wants. I've given up on trying to reason with him. Natural selection will deal with that problem later.

How does pointing out that Arcturus is the seat of Alliance power equate to hating Earth? By inference, you must obviously feel that the Alliance itself 'hates' Earth. In fact, obviously all Alliance colonies must, in your opinion, 'hate Earth' since if they didn't hate Earth they would still be living there.

That wasn't in response to his latest post, that was in response to the man himself.

The reason why he's calling plotholes on everything and trying to discredit Earth as a valuable world is because he plans to sacrifice the planet, it's production capacity (which Zulu doesn't believe exists), its population flow (which Zulu doesn't seem to think matters because of colonies) and all of its 11.4 billion people to preserve the Alliance Fleet, defeat the reapers and then take control of the galaxy with the 40 million humans left on the colonies against trillions upon trillions of aliens.

He thinks the Alliance has the best chance to survive the war if they let the reapers destroy Earth, while everything else points to the contrary. So, this thread is just a way for him to flaunt his opinion of Earth and the alleged superiority of his grand plan by calling the entire planet a plothole.

And how does this have anything to do with the plot hole of trying Shepard outside of the Alliance capital?

That is, aside from the fact, that BioWare is putting this plot hole in there to pretend Earth is more important, than it  can possibly be, according to the pre-established lore, thus reinforcing the "Save Earth" motif of ME3?

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 12 avril 2011 - 08:01 .

[ifander]

It's pretty juvenile hiding behind the codex, stating that, basically, Earth is completely unimportant. Where does the SA get its funding? Its manpower? Sure, humanity has quite a few colonies, but the vast majority of humans reside on Earth. So Earth may have little say in the day-to-day operations of the Alliance, but the Alliance mandate is still to work in the best interest of humanity, and since most of humanity resides on Earth, that is its primary concern.

Stating that the SA can ignore Earth is like stating that the EU can simply ignore its member states and do whatever it wants. Without Earth there is no SA. Without its member states, there is no European Union.

Having the trial on, say, Eden Prime may have been a plot hole. Having it on Earth is not, seeing as how it's the capital of humanity. It may be somewhat odd, I'll admit, but seeing as how Shepard is famous and all it would make sense for his trial to be held on Earth. At the very least it is not completely implausible, a basic criteria for it to be a plot hole.

Here's one scenario:

Hackett, knowing the SA is itching to crucify Shepard for the Batarian incident, makes sure the trial is held on Earth where Shepard would get a lot of support from the public. It makes it harder for the Alliance to get rid of her. It's basic politics. The Alliance may be "independent" but pissing off the public hardly makes their job easier.

So enough with this lame plot hole calling. Calling something a plot hole without even knowing the full story is idiotic at best.

[Zulu_DFA]

Arcian wrote...

And really, if the Alliance was *really* independent, in the most pure and basic meaning of the word, why would it funnel colonial resources back to Earth? There's a plothole, if anything.

The Alliance could "nationalize" all the industry in the colonies, making Earth starve, but that would be bad for its business reputation iamong its alien partners (who, unlike Earth, do have fleets to protect their interests).

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 12 avril 2011 - 08:06 .

[CroGamer002]

Mesina2 wrote...

ZULU, you seriously think that countries like United North American States, United European States, Peoples Republic of China and India would allow Alliance to run political and military show in galactic community for humanity all alone without any supervision?

Ahem.