1529 réponses à ce sujet

[Moiaussi]

Almostfaceman wrote...

No, no, you've missed Zulu's descriptors for Earth - read through the thread.

He quoted Anoleis's description. The 'Earthborn' background bears that out, at least in part:

As an Earth-born, you had a rough childhood in the slums of Earth, and have a gritty edge to your personality. You enlisted at the age of eighteen, in order to avoid falling into the trap of gang culture and poverty.

Ref: http://masseffect.wi...mmander_Shepard

It may be that the Earth is cleaning up and entering a golden age, but it was not portrayed as paradise in ME1. Of course it could be they retconned the entire thing and that they will retcon Arcturus out of existance too, but for now, we still have the evidence that exists.

Note that by the time of ME1, Earth has had 29 years since Shepard's birth to clean up. If ME tech meant cheap energy, it could be that Earth really is radically better off by this time, especially keeping in mind how rapidly Humanity became spacefaring. FTL also makes mining the rest of the system suddenly efficient, meaning cheap basic resources. Even so the scale and speed of 'improvement' is really hard to believe. I do maintain the writers have real problems with concepts of scale.

But none of that has anything to do with the fact that the political capital is still Arcturus.

[Someone With Mass]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
And how does this have anything to do with the plot hole of trying Shepard outside of the Alliance capital?

That is, aside from the fact, that BioWare is putting this plot hole in there to pretend Earth is more important, than it  can possibly be, according to the pre-established lore, thus reinforcing the "Save Earth" motif of ME3?

Earth is still not outside Alliance space, and it'd make sense that it's on Earth if it's a public trial, because then millions, if not billions can watch it. It would probably happen behind closed doors if it was on Arcturus station.

Your arguments are very weak. 

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 12 avril 2011 - 08:14 .

[The-Person]

Think of it this way, the U.N HQ is New York City, but the U.N court is in the Netherlands. The parliment might not be on Earth, but the courts might be.

[Almostfaceman]

Moiaussi wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

No, no, you've missed Zulu's descriptors for Earth - read through the thread.

He quoted Anoleis's description. The 'Earthborn' background bears that out, at least in part:

As an Earth-born, you had a rough childhood in the slums of Earth, and have a gritty edge to your personality. You enlisted at the age of eighteen, in order to avoid falling into the trap of gang culture and poverty.

Ref: http://masseffect.wi...mmander_Shepard

It may be that the Earth is cleaning up and entering a golden age, but it was not portrayed as paradise in ME1. Of course it could be they retconned the entire thing and that they will retcon Arcturus out of existance too, but for now, we still have the evidence that exists.

Note that by the time of ME1, Earth has had 29 years since Shepard's birth to clean up. If ME tech meant cheap energy, it could be that Earth really is radically better off by this time, especially keeping in mind how rapidly Humanity became spacefaring. FTL also makes mining the rest of the system suddenly efficient, meaning cheap basic resources. Even so the scale and speed of 'improvement' is really hard to believe. I do maintain the writers have real problems with concepts of scale.

But none of that has anything to do with the fact that the political capital is still Arcturus.

He called Earth a resource suck-hole.  It's a long thread so I'll give ya the benefit of the doubt for missing that.

And I addressed the political captial thing in a previous thread - I'll let you read that - it's my idea of how "capital of humanity" and "capital of the Alliance" are reconciled.

[Almostfaceman]

Moiaussi wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

No, no, you've missed Zulu's descriptors for Earth - read through the thread.

He quoted Anoleis's description. The 'Earthborn' background bears that out, at least in part:

As an Earth-born, you had a rough childhood in the slums of Earth, and have a gritty edge to your personality. You enlisted at the age of eighteen, in order to avoid falling into the trap of gang culture and poverty.

Ref: http://masseffect.wi...mmander_Shepard

It may be that the Earth is cleaning up and entering a golden age, but it was not portrayed as paradise in ME1. Of course it could be they retconned the entire thing and that they will retcon Arcturus out of existance too, but for now, we still have the evidence that exists.

Note that by the time of ME1, Earth has had 29 years since Shepard's birth to clean up. If ME tech meant cheap energy, it could be that Earth really is radically better off by this time, especially keeping in mind how rapidly Humanity became spacefaring. FTL also makes mining the rest of the system suddenly efficient, meaning cheap basic resources. Even so the scale and speed of 'improvement' is really hard to believe. I do maintain the writers have real problems with concepts of scale.

But none of that has anything to do with the fact that the political capital is still Arcturus.

Plus, I'm puzzled how one hostile salarians viewpoint of Earth and the point that Earth has slums = the Entirety of Planet Earth Sucks and Is One Giant Slum.  I mean, how do you get there?

[Zulu_DFA]

[quote]ifander wrote...

It's pretty juvenile hiding behind the codex, stating that, basically, Earth is completely unimportant.
[/quote]
It's pretty mature to deny the Codex based on your own fantasies.


[quote]ifander wrote...

Where does the SA get its funding?[/quote]
Where does Earth get its funding?


[quote]ifander wrote...

Its manpower?
[/quote]
Where do the Geth get their manpower?


[quote]ifander wrote...

Sure, humanity has quite a few colonies, but the vast majority of humans reside on Earth.
[/quote]
So what?


[quote]ifander wrote...

So Earth may have little say in the day-to-day operations of the Alliance, but the Alliance mandate is still to work in the best interest of humanity, and since most of humanity resides on Earth, that is its primary concern.[/quote]
The concern of any political body is its own perpetuation.


[quote]ifander wrote...

Stating that the SA can ignore Earth is like stating that the EU can simply ignore its member states and do whatever it wants.
[/quote]
If the EU built a base on the Moon that would provide ALL the resources that the EU needed to maintain its armed forces and the Moon Base, and the population of Europe became totally dependent of the constant influx of resources from the Moon, and the EU honchos moved in the Moon Base with all their relatives and worldly posessions... Then hell yes, Europe could as well go to hell, get conquered by the Arabs or Russians or whomever, since they would be also dependent on the EU-supplied resources from the Moon.


[quote]ifander wrote...

Without Earth there is no SA.
[/quote]
I love history too.


[quote]ifander wrote...

Without its member states, there is no European Union.
[/quote]
Until the EU builds the Moon Base.


[quote]ifander wrote...

Having the trial on, say, Eden Prime may have been a plot hole. Having it on Earth is not, seeing as how it's the capital of humanity. It may be somewhat odd, I'll admit, but seeing as how Shepard is famous and all it would make sense for his trial to be held on Earth. At the very least it is not completely implausible, a basic criteria for it to be a plot hole.[/quote]
It is completely implausible that Hackett would know this in advance.


[quote]ifander wrote...

Here's one scenario:

Hackett, knowing the SA is itching to crucify Shepard for the Batarian incident, makes sure the trial is held on Earth where Shepard would get a lot of support from the public. It makes it harder for the Alliance to get rid of her. It's basic politics. The Alliance may be "independent" but pissing off the public hardly makes their job easier.[/quote]
And what's the point of having this trial at all, if Hackett could simply dont tell anywone that Shepard was involved, or survived the incident?


[quote]ifander wrote..

So enough with this lame plot hole calling. Calling something a plot hole without even knowing the full story is idiotic at best.[/quote]
Given the fact that the "Arrival" DLC is finished and played, and the ME2 manner of writing, I have all the premises to deduce that we won't be given so much as one line of explanation of what the "full story" has been.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 12 avril 2011 - 10:41 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...
And how does this have anything to do with the plot hole of trying Shepard outside of the Alliance capital?

That is, aside from the fact, that BioWare is putting this plot hole in there to pretend Earth is more important, than it  can possibly be, according to the pre-established lore, thus reinforcing the "Save Earth" motif of ME3?

Earth is still not outside Alliance space, and it'd make sense that it's on Earth if it's a public trial, because then millions, if not billions can watch it. It would probably happen behind closed doors if it was on Arcturus station.

Your arguments are very weak. 

Millions if not billions can fit into the '2156 Jon Grissom Olympic Stadium? I thought it could pack 950'000 of viewers... What a perfect opprotunity for the Batarian terrorists to retaliate though.

[Zulu_DFA]

The-Person wrote...

Think of it this way, the U.N HQ is New York City, but the U.N court is in the Netherlands. The parliment might not be on Earth, but the courts might be.

It would be nice if Hackett explained this peculiarity for us dumb "codex zealots", when he was predicting the future in the end of the "Arrival" DLC.

As of now, we have no reason to think so, since all we know about the Alliance is that it

1) became independent of Earth in 2160;
2) has all its important facilities we know of at the Arcturus Station.

And that still leaves us with the "Council Spectre" problem.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 12 avril 2011 - 08:40 .

[Moiaussi]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Then again it could be also considered the political capital since the Alliance is a supranational body made up of Earth government affiliates.  My point being that Earth is still considered the capital of humanity and the Alliance is the political and military vehicle for humanity and humanity's colonies.

But it isn't. Parliament is a civilian body, a deriviative of representational democracy. Militaries don't have palriaments. The Parliament is at Arcturus.

You also completely ignored the jurisdictional issues. What crimes against humanity is Shepard accused of?

Modifié par Moiaussi, 12 avril 2011 - 08:50 .

[Moiaussi]

Almostfaceman wrote...

He called Earth a resource suck-hole.  It's a long thread so I'll give ya the benefit of the doubt for missing that

How is it not? Did Earth magically invent some sort of perfect recycling method that not only reuses existing material but brings back the centuries of hydrocarbons and other non-renewable resources that have been spent over the millenia?

Modifié par Moiaussi, 12 avril 2011 - 08:53 .

[Someone With Mass]

Burn.

[Moiaussi]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
It would be nice if Hackett explained this peculiarity for us dumb "codex zealots", when he was predicting the future in the end of the "Arrival" DLC.

As of now, we have no reason to think so, since all we know about the Alliance is that it

1) became independent of Earth in 2160;
2) has all its important facilities we know of at the Arcturus Station.

And that still leaves us with the "Council Spectre" problem.

I think the confusion is that the Alliance isn't completely independant of Earth. Earth would still be a large voting block. Earth just is no longer the centre of government (although that is a bit of a plot hole too. Moving enough people within 30 years to outnumber the population of Earth seems unlikely.... again, the writers don't seem to be able to handle scale).

So it is true that Earth has a substantial and possibly controlling vote, it isn't the seat of government.

And there are still jurisdicitonal issues.

[Almostfaceman]

Moiaussi wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

He called Earth a resource suck-hole.  It's a long thread so I'll give ya the benefit of the doubt for missing that

How is it not? Did Earth magically invent some sort of perfect recycling method that not only reuses existing material but brings back the centuries of hydrocarbons and other non-renewable resources that have been spent over the millenia?

The Earth resources made the Alliance.  It is not a suck hole.  Period.  The Alliance and its fleet would not exist if not for Earth.  You can't tell me that in the short time Earth has been exploring space (30yrs?), all of sudden it doesn't have resources anymore.

Seriously, if you think, like Zulu, that the Alliance is now completely free of all important ties to Earth and it exists and maintains its fleets without Earth, you and I can just stop right here.

[CroGamer002]

This pro-human Renegade... guy, thinks Earth is not important to humanity and Alliance?


There's so much wrong with you ZULU.

[Merchant2006]

Avissel wrote...

Merchant2006 wrote...

Can someone inform me as to what the hell is going on here now? I'm just sifting through posts and they have no relevance to the OP... atleast that's what I'm seeing. And I see CHUCKLEVISION so I must be right.

Good old fashioned internet pissing match at this point.

Ah I see. Also thanks to Nathan, Someone w/mass and others for clarifying some stuff for me but this has literally become a pissing ground. And I'm completely goddamn drenched.

So I should go. Have fun.

[Malanek]

Arcian wrote...
According to Zulu the entire colonial population sits on around 40 million people, with the rest on Earth with its 11.4 billion people.

That's already been proved wrong just by adding up numbers we have. Plus there are a lot (probably the majority) of numbers we don't have.

As for the trial it should be on the citadel from a fairness point of view. However it is not unlike the military to ignore fairness and try people in their own backyard which is fine for the story. I hope if their is an alien prosecutor they bring this up. Claiming it should be on Arcturas rather than Earth is a nitpicking argument which isn't even backed up by any logic. The highest human courts are probably on Earth.

[ifander]

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...

[quote]ifander wrote...

It's pretty juvenile hiding behind the codex, stating that, basically, Earth is completely unimportant.
[/quote]
It's pretty mature to deny the Codex based on your own fantasies.

[/quote]
Fair enough

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...
[quote]ifander wrote...
Where does the SA get its funding?
[/quote]
Where does Earth get its funding?
[/quote]
So Earth depends on the SA to some extent. The SA is dependant on Earth as well. 

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...

[quote]ifander wrote...
Its manpower?
[/quote]
Where do the Geth get their manpower?
[/quote]
Are you suggesting that Earth is irrelevant to the SA for manpower?
[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...
[quote]ifander wrote...
Sure, humanity has quite a few colonies, but the vast majority of humans reside on Earth.
[/quote]
So what?
[/quote]
I don't know about you, but I'd say protecting the major population center of a civilisation is more important than some colonies. 

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...

[quote]ifander wrote...
So Earth may have little say in the day-to-day operations of the Alliance, but the Alliance mandate is still to work in the best interest of humanity, and since most of humanity resides on Earth, that is its primary concern.
[/quote]
The concern of any political body is it's own perpetuation.
[/quote]

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...

[quote]ifander wrote...
Stating that the SA can ignore Earth is like stating that the EU can simply ignore its member states and do whatever it wants.
[/quote]
If the EU built a base on the Moon that would provide ALL the resources that the EU needed to maintain its armed forces and the Moon Base, and the population of Europe became totally dependent of the constant influx of resources from the Moon, and the EU honchos moved in the Moon Base with all their relatives and worldly posessions... Then hell yes, Europe could as well go to hell, get conquered by the Arabs or Russians or whomever, since they would be also dependent on the EU-supplied resources from the Moon.
[/quote]

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...

[quote]ifander wrote...
Without Earth there is no SA.
[/quote]
I love history too.
[/quote]

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...
[quote]ifander wrote...
Without its member states, there is no European Union.
[/quote]
Until the EU builds the Moon Base.
[/quote]

You're implying that the preservation and betterment of humanity is secondary to some other goal the SA may have which is... what? Carreer advancement? Politicians getting rich? Are you really that cynical?

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...

[quote]ifander wrote...
Having the trial on, say, Eden Prime may have been a plot hole. Having it on Earth is not, seeing as how it's the capital of humanity. It may be somewhat odd, I'll admit, but seeing as how Shepard is famous and all it would make sense for his trial to be held on Earth. At the very least it is not completely implausible, a basic criteria for it to be a plot hole.
[/quote]
It is completely implausible that Hackett would know this in advance.
[/quote]
Not to be a dick, but what do you mean by this?

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...

[quote]ifander wrote...
Here's one scenario:

Hackett, knowing the SA is itching to crucify Shepard for the Batarian incident, makes sure the trial is held on Earth where Shepard would get a lot of support from the public. It makes it harder for the Alliance to get rid of her. It's basic politics. The Alliance may be "independent" but pissing off the public hardly makes their job easier.
[/quote]
And what's the point of having this trial at all, if Hackett could simply not tell anywone that Shepard was involved, or survived the incident?
[/quote]
I gave a perfectly acceptable explanation for the trial being held on Earth and you choose to question the validity of the trial itself? Way to dodge the argument...

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...
[quote]ifander wrote..
So enough with this lame plot hole calling. Calling something a plot hole without even knowing the full story is idiotic at best.
[/quote]
Given the fact that the "Arrival" DLC is finished and played, and the ME2 manner of writing, I have all the premises to deduce that we won't be given so much as one line of explanation of what the "full story" has been.
[/quote]
Again, calling out plot holes before they technically exist is pretty lame.

[Raven1015]

 So just a few thoughts, keeping in mind that I read a lot, but not all 50 pages of this thread.  If we step back from our knowledge of Shepard's adventures and try to look at it from the outside (which is difficult), we may get a different perspective.  

One, Shepard, Alliance hero and the first human Spectre saves the Citadel from an attack by the Geth and a rogue Spectre (not everyone believes in the Reapers, so it was a matter of saving the Citadel and not necessarily all of advanced life from destruction).  He's a hero for most.

Two, said hero is killed and dies a hero.  However, he resurfaces and is now working for Cerberus, a rogue organization that are seen as terrorists by most of the galaxy.  It is unclear how many people know the details of Shepard's "suicide mission" but I would guess not many.  Good money is on the Alliance and Council keeping the details of Shepard's new life as hush-hush as possible.  

Three, a Batarian star system is wiped off the map by the destruction of its mass relay.  As someone said, the authorities in the system had likely alerted the top ranks of the Batarians as to the plot to launch the asteroid into the relay, so I would hope that they would put two and two together easily enough.  

I can't stress enough how big a deal this is.  It's not just the 300,000 lives, which to us as gamers seems like a drop in the ocean when we've been saving lives on the scales of billions and trillions, and punching holes in mercs, pirates, and other beings like it was going out of style.  They made a big deal in Arrival out of the fact that relays have not been destroyed before, especially not intentionally.  Destroying a relay is bound to attract attention.  I also think that this action could definitely be seen as a violation of the Citadel Conventions, which bans such tactics as dropping asteroids on planets, etc.  I think blowing up an entire star system would definitely fall under the topic category of prohibited acts under the conventions.

Earlier someone mentioned that Spectres are expected to do what is necessary to accomplish the mission.  The difference is, in this case, there was no mission, at least according to most people in the galaxy, other than Shepard, Hackett, and the Normandy crew.  All they know is that Shepard detonated a mass relay and destroyed a  whole system.  This could easily seen as the terrorist act of a rogue Spectre.  We already recently had one former Spectre, Saren, who was previously seen as a hero, at least by those who didn't know him well, go rogue.  Why would Shepard be exempt from that?

The key point that I see people making is why does anyone have to know that Shepard is involved?  Politically, I see it working out this way.  

Batarian government to Alliance: "Who the hell just blew up our system?  We knew your people were in the system."
Alliance: *shrug* "Wasn't me"
Citadel to Alliance: "Who the hell just violated the Citadel Conventions?  We hear your people were in the system and don't like the Batarians much?"
Alliance: *shrug* "I don't know"
Batarian: "Ok then, we interpret this as an act of war.  Your people were in the system, and you can't explain how they shouldn't be blamed for this action.  Prepare to die!"
Citadel: "We will hold you accountable for violating the Citadel Conventions unless you can show that you were not involved."
Alliance: "Shepard did it!"

Ok, maybe not just like that, but you get the idea.  The Alliance only has a few options.  Deny everything, even though from the galaxy's perspective, they've got crumbs on their lips from the cookie jar.  Pick someone to be a patsy, perhaps Dr. Kenson who is dead already, but is tied directly to the Alliance.  Or pick a "rogue" operative who could easily be painted as being disconnected from the Alliance and/or unstable.  There would probably be some in the Alliance who see Shepard as a liability, as hard as that may be to believe.  Admiral Hackett's not one of them, but maybe he sees the writing on the wall and feels that Shepard can dictate the terms of the trial if he turns himself in.  Blowing up a mass relay is a dangerous precedent that the powers that be need to see addressed.  That is why it's a big deal, and not necessarily the 300,000 lives.  

As for the whole Earth issue, I'm staying out of that one.  Realistically, the designers wanted a trial on Earth for the "cool factor", and it can be explained that a public, civilian trial is necessary to placate authorities, as a military trial on the Arcturus station would be seen as too shadowy and removed from transparency.

[Halo Quea]

bobobo878 wrote...

If Saren had his Spectre status revoked for working with Geth, murdering Nihlus, and attacking Eden Prime, why can't Shepard have his/her status revoked for working with Cerberus, murdering Tela Vasir and attacking Arahot? I woudn't be surprised if in Mass Effect 3 other Spectres are sent to bring in Shepard.

Do you really want more of THAT?   I mean yet even more Spectres who are out to kill you instead of working with you take on the galaxy's greatest threat?

[Zulu_DFA]

[quote]Arcian wrote...
[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...

That is, aside from the fact, that BioWare is putting this plot hole in there to pretend Earth is more important, than it  can possibly be, according to the pre-established lore, thus reinforcing the "Save Earth" motif of ME3?
[/quote]
I still don't understand how you think. You call it a plot hole because you don't like it,
[/quote]
That's right, you clearly don't understand how I think. I do not call it a plot hole because I don't like it. I don't like it, because it's a plot hole.


[quote]Arcian wrote...

and then you invent this idea that Earth isn't part of the Alliance and that it has zero importance and influence just to justify calling it a plot hole.[/quote]
The plot hole is trying Shepard anywhere except the Citadel and the Arcturus Station. Earth's diminishing standing comes up on a tangent, when people try to persuade me that Earth is somehow special.


[quote]Arcian wrote...

The whole point of founding the Alliance was to propagate humanity's interests. Before the colonies, where was the entirety of humanity?

Earth. And like a small, small number on the moon. And on Mars. And some space stations here and there. But that's not the point.

After colonization began, where was the majority of humanity?

Earth.

If we get up to speed, 2185, where is the majority of humanity?

Earth.
[/quote]
And where is the most of Eezo?


[quote]Arcian wrote...

If the Alliance still represents the interests of humanity, it obviously represents the interests of Earth.
[/quote]
But Earth does not represent the interests of the Alliance, that's where the problem is.

Earth nations governs the planet, while the Alliance governs everything outside it. You won't have to apply for Alliance citizenship if you want live somewhere else than earth. Overall, both entities govern humanity.
[/quote]
Maybe the Alliance doesn't even have the concept of citizenship. Only, I'm sorry,I think I'm missing out on the second entity that governs humanity: the first is theSystems Alliance, and the second... ? Maybe Cerberus? I remember TIM saying something to that effect...


[quote]Arcian wrote...

I remember two scenes in ME1 that quite clearly indicates that Earth is very relevant to the Alliance, for example, the reporter that Shepard can punch out frequently mentions Earth by name in the interview or refers to it by the phrase "people back home", and even outright asks Shepard if the Council has ever asked him/her to place their needs before the needs of Earth. She also refers to the Normandy as "Earth's" vessel. She finishes the interview with "The eyes of Earth are on you". For reference.
[/quote]



I've had enough of your disingenuous assertions!!!

Seriously, she is a journalist for an Earth-based agency, she's putting on a show for her audience. Illium News thing they are the hub of the universe, so what?

But at least you're starting to think now. So I'll tell you a secret: there is certain canon material that can pawn me quite seriously (not that I couldn't hold against, but still), yet for 50 pages not a single apologist of the trial on Earth mentioned it.


[quote]Arcian wrote...

Then, when you get back on the Normandy, Hackett calls to let you know what the response "back home" was. Only the stupid and ignorant would mistake "back home" for the colonies or Arcturus Station. Quite obviously, Earth can't be that damn unimportant.
[/quote]
Assumption.


[quote]Arcian wrote...

Judging from your very renegade kind of mindset, I assume you're the "fight for humanity's dominance"-kind of guy. Does your definition of humanity only include the colonies? Because if it does, no wonder you want Earth destroyed! Those useless vermin whom you cannot control, how dare they stand between you and your plan to become space-Gaddaffi and God-Ruler of all things space?!
[/quote]
Gadhafi is a cool guy, BTW. Is putting up a gutsy fight, making foreign aggressors work for his oil. But he never wanted to conquer anybody outside Lybia, so I fail to get the comparison.


[quote]Arcian wrote...

Leaving that and moving on to the "Save Earth"-issue you have.

The game is meant to entertain even if it means reusing old tropes that some people, like you, might not enjoy. Remember, Tropes Are Not Bad. Reusing old, nostalgic tropes from the 80's to build a new SF franchise that isn't Star Wars was kind of the whole point of Mass Effect in the first place. I'm even sure some BioWare employees has said so in some interviews. Getting to the point, if you don't think the third game will entertain you I suggest you refrain from buying the game, leave these forums and go find another game forum to scourge. BioWare will not take your "suggestions" to heart. They have their own agenda which is COMPLETELY separate from yours.
[/quote]
That's right, BioWare's agenda is to earn money, and that doesn't necessarily mean (and may be it's completely at odds with) putting time and effort into making the plots of their games coherent. So far as you understand that, why are you trying so fiercely to deny that there is a plot hole?


[quote]Arcian wrote...

This will not change no matter how many "Zulu Jugend" followers you amass. Be damn sure that this applies to me as well, I just don't **** and moan about it as much as you do because a game company refuses to abide by MY specific wishes for the games they produce. If you cannot invest the trust in them that they produce a good, entertaining game, then you have zero reasons to be here other than to troll the living **** out of people who actually LIKE the games and don't care terribly much for what you consider "plotholes".[/quote]
Well, it seems you at least do care a lot.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 12 avril 2011 - 11:41 .

[Icinix]

I just assumed the trial would take place on Earth so Hackett could give Shepard their public soap box to get people to wake up to the Reaper threat.

[DashRunner92]

DashRunner92 wrote...

Why are people even bothering to argue. For one, we have no idea how people are tried for such a crime that scale in the Mass Effect Universe, that's up for the developers decide, no matter how much useless information you throw, NOTHING, even concerning law today, does not even apply as a valid argument, for all we know they have major trials at a species' homeworld. We also don't know how the plot is going to roll out so saying it is a plot hole is completely invalid.

Well since there's no counter i'm just gonna assume this post is win

Modifié par DashRunner92, 12 avril 2011 - 09:58 .