1529 réponses à ce sujet

[Slayer299]

-Skorpious- wrote...

A weal explanation would be that Hackett pulled some strings to get the trial to take place on Earth on purpose. Why? Seeing humanity's "hero" in person may elicit a more sympathetic response from the jury, judge, or whoever happens to preside over Shepard's case.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Council and the SA paint Shep as a fruitloop after the destruction of the SR1 and sweep everything under the rug? If so, I fail to see how Shep would get a sympathetic repsonse from people (judge, jury) on Earth. Oh, and one other thing, the trial should be a military one not a civilian so I can see even *less* a sense of sympathy towards Shep with the charge of murdering/killing/whatever 300K civilians.

[Empiro]

Gah, I can't believe this has gone on for 50+ pages either. My take: just as there are Federal Courts outside of Washington DC, there's Alliance courts outside of Arcturus. And you'd think it would make sense to have at least one on Earth, where more humans live than anywhere else, combined (times 100).

I see no plotholes at all. If you'd prefer it to be held somewhere else, you're certainly entitled to that opinion.

Modifié par Empiro, 13 avril 2011 - 04:42 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Empiro wrote...

Gah, I can't believe this has gone on for 50+ pages either. My take: just as there are Federal Courts outside of Washington DC, there's Alliance courts outside of Arcturus. And you'd think it would make sense to have at least one on Earth, where more humans live than anywhere else, combined (times 100).

I see no plotholes at all. If you'd prefer it to be held somewhere else, you're certainly entitled to that opinion.

1. As a spectre, Shepard is not in the Alliance's jurisdiction.
2. As a naval officer, he is not in the Alliance's civil judicial system jurisdiction.
3. His case is supposed to be too high profile to be taken to just any "federal court".
4. Why of all the "any federal courts" one was chosen of all places on Earth?

As soon as these four points are out of the way, I won't see a plothole too. Unfortunatelly, in the Arrival DLC Hackett failed to address any of them before he professed the future.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 13 avril 2011 - 04:55 .

[KingNothing125]

Shepard can not be a spectre, as you can tell the council to shove it where the sun don't shine.

Additionally, even if you do get spectre status back, it's only ceremonial and in-name-only. Furthermore, the council can simply strip your spectre status after-the-fact. You did murder 300,000+ batarians. They stripped Saren for less than that.

And who said anything about a civil trial? It's clearly a military tribunal.

And there's no reason Shepard HAS to be tried on Arcturus station.

Modifié par KingNothing125, 13 avril 2011 - 05:10 .

[Moiaussi]

5) His alleged crimes were committed in neither the Alliance nor Council jurisdictions. They were not committed as an Alliance officer, since he had ceased to be one the momment he was appointed a Spectre. If he wasn't reinstated, they were not committed as a Spectre either, but as a free agent. He wasn't even re-born in Alliance or Council space.

The Batarians might have a claim to him, but noone else should, other than maybe the council if he was reinstated

[Moiaussi]

KingNothing125 wrote...

Shepard can not a spectre, as you can tell the council to shove it where the sun don't shine.

Additionally, even if you do get spectre status back, it's only ceremonial and in-name-only. Furthermore, the council can simply strip your spectre status after-the-fact. You did murder 300,000+ batarians. They stripped Saren for less than that.

And who said anything about a civil trial? It's clearly a military tribunal.

And there's no reason Shepard HAS to be tried on Arcturus station.

That is like being a 00 agent for the brits 'in name only.' No sane government would ever do any such thing, nor was any such thing stated in or out of game. Shepard even uses his authority as a Spectre with a C-Sec officer without reprocussions.

[Empiro]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Empiro wrote...

Gah, I can't believe this has gone on for 50+ pages either. My take: just as there are Federal Courts outside of Washington DC, there's Alliance courts outside of Arcturus. And you'd think it would make sense to have at least one on Earth, where more humans live than anywhere else, combined (times 100).

I see no plotholes at all. If you'd prefer it to be held somewhere else, you're certainly entitled to that opinion.

1. As a spectre, Shepard is not in the Alliance's jurisdiction.

As others said, that can be easily revoked.

2. As a naval officer, he is not in the Alliance's civil judicial system jurisdiction.

I'll agree that it's unclear who has jurisdiction in this case, but why couldn't there be a military court on Earth? It's clear that lots of Alliance training happens in Sol, so having bases on Earth would make sense.

3. His case is supposed to be too high profile to be taken to just any "federal court".
4. Why of all the "any federal courts" one was chosen of all places on Earth?

It has 11 billion people, more than anywhere else combined (times 100). Does it surprise you that there would be a really big, important court on Earth?

[AdamNW]

I thought Shepard wasn't traced back to Arrival?

[Moiaussi]

Empiro wrote...

As others said, that can be easily revoked.

You are suggesting that the Council would revoke Shepard's status....again.... with no trial. and hand him over to the Alliance for a public trial there?

Basicly that the Council would undermine the whole concept of Spectres and the Council's authority and jurisdiction in that manner?

[ErebUs890]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Empiro wrote...

Gah, I can't believe this has gone on for 50+ pages either. My take: just as there are Federal Courts outside of Washington DC, there's Alliance courts outside of Arcturus. And you'd think it would make sense to have at least one on Earth, where more humans live than anywhere else, combined (times 100).

I see no plotholes at all. If you'd prefer it to be held somewhere else, you're certainly entitled to that opinion.

1. As a spectre, Shepard is not in the Alliance's jurisdiction.
2. As a naval officer, he is not in the Alliance's civil judicial system jurisdiction.
3. His case is supposed to be too high profile to be taken to just any "federal court".
4. Why of all the "any federal courts" one was chosen of all places on Earth?

As soon as these four points are out of the way, I won't see a plothole too. Unfortunatelly, in the Arrival DLC Hackett failed to address any of them before he professed the future.

You're like a constant downer, huh?

And those aren't plotholes.

[PlumPaul93]

who cares it's used to get shepard to earth to start ME3. Is it a little sketchy on logic if shepard regained spectre status sure but does it really matter no

[aTrueFool]

After Shanxi General Williams was bought back to Earth in irons. Maybe if he had a trial it would have been at the same place as Shepard's is going to be.

Just a thought.

[ObserverStatus]

Personally I want the trial to have renegade interrupt options. "Hit your own head with that gavel!"

[Empiro]

bobobo878 wrote...

Personally I want the trial to have renegade interrupt options. "Hit your own head with that gavel!"

I wonder if there'll be an interrupt where you yell out "Objection!"

[ObserverStatus]

Empiro wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

Personally I want the trial to have renegade interrupt options. "Hit your own head with that gavel!"

I wonder if there'll be an interrupt where you yell out "Objection!"

Technically, I don't think the defendant is supposed to yell "objection" but i doubt that will stop Shepard.

[DarthSliver]

Moiaussi wrote...


Basicly that the Council would undermine the whole concept of Spectres and the Council's authority and jurisdiction in that manner?

Actually they would for the humans, its obvious they dont think too highly of humans yet

[Jigero]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
1. As a spectre, Shepard is not in the Alliance's jurisdiction.

First of all he's not a spectre anymore, he can get reinstated but Anderson tells you it's title only.  On top of that, the Council basically told Shepard stay out of our way and don't ****** us off, then he goes out on a mission working for an organization who is a direct threat to the council, under orders from the Human alliance (note this because this was not a council mission or in favor of the council) and kills 300 thousand plus Batarians to stop a threat the Council doesn't even perceive is real. Inciting a war the Council would refused to get involved in.

How is the Council willing to protect Shepard in any of this? The council turned on Saren for less and he was a Veterian and trusted Spectre. I highly doubt the Council wouldn't offer up Shepard's head on a platter to the Batarians if it ment stoping the war.

2. As a naval officer, he is not in the Alliance's civil judicial system jurisdiction.

Who said anything about Civil? the Leaders of the Alliance are probably on earth, or Earth is the meeting point. Is it so hard to swallow that you know humans might be on Earth in the future?

3. His case is supposed to be too high profile to be taken to just any "federal court".

a trial is a trial, what does it matter?

4. Why of all the "any federal courts" one was chosen of all places on Earth?

Why not? Earth is where Humans are from and the alliance is centered. Where else would they have it?

As soon as these four points are out of the way, I won't see a plothole too. Unfortunatelly, in the Arrival DLC Hackett failed to address any of them before he professed the future.

Heres a novel idea why don't you wait until ME3 is out which will probably expalin all this before you go around throwing the word "Plot hole" like it's your new favorite word.

Modifié par Jigero, 13 avril 2011 - 07:47 .

[Empiro]

Arcian wrote...

Moiaussi wrote...

Empiro wrote...

As others said, that can be easily revoked.

You are suggesting that the Council would revoke Shepard's status....again.... with no trial. and hand him over to the Alliance for a public trial there?

Basicly that the Council would undermine the whole concept of Spectres and the Council's authority and jurisdiction in that manner?

Saren attacked a colony and had his Spectre status revoked. He didn't even kill everyone there, yet he still had his status revoked when presented with shaky evidence that could easily have been forged. What odds does that leave Shepard?

There is enough evidence to implicate Shepard's responsibility, or at the very least his involvement in the destruction of Bahak. The Council revokes his Spectre status, and he's no longer under their jurisdiction. That only leaves him as an Alliance operative responsible for mass murder on the Alliance's behalf against the Alliance's only rival which I might  is no longer part of the Citadel. QED, the Council can just sit back and watch the Alliance trying to solve the problem that it's got itself into.

You see, the Council is clever. If they can deny Spectre involvement, they will do so - but if there is even the slightest evidence of an outright attack against a national entity, they cut them off to protect themselves. It happened to Saren, and it will happen to Shepard.

I bet that the evidence against Shepard could be quite good -- people have mentioned that a shuttle escapes the asteroid before you in Arrival. It could very well be carrying video from the base survellience showing Shep activating the asteroid engines (conveniently leaving out the discussion of how it's necessary to stop the Reapers, of course).

Heck, it could even show Shep slaughtering countless (indoctrinated, but who can tell on video?) humans who were trying to stop him. My Shepard also has the Colonist background, so the final nail in the coffin will be to talk about how it was all about revenge against the Batarians that killed his family. Ouch.

Modifié par Empiro, 13 avril 2011 - 07:51 .

[Empiro]

Jigero wrote...

Why not? Earth is where Humans are from and the alliance is centered. Where else would they have it?

Actually, Zulu does correctly state that the capital of the Alliance is on Arcturus. However, my main issue is that he just throws away the prospect of Earth as some backwater that doesn't matter. 

No matter what, it's still where 99% of all humans live, and saying that Earth is of no importance is like saying that beacause the capital of the US is in DC, nothing important must happen in places like LA or NY.

[Moiaussi]

Arcian wrote...

Saren attacked a colony and had his Spectre status revoked. He didn't even kill everyone there, yet he still had his status revoked when presented with shaky evidence that could easily have been forged. What odds does that leave Shepard?

There is enough evidence to implicate Shepard's responsibility, or at the very least his involvement in the destruction of Bahak. The Council revokes his Spectre status, and he's no longer under their jurisdiction. That only leaves him as an Alliance operative responsible for mass murder on the Alliance's behalf against the Alliance's only rival which I might  is no longer part of the Citadel. QED, the Council can just sit back and watch the Alliance trying to solve the problem that it's got itself into.

You see, the Council is clever. If they can deny Spectre involvement, they will do so - but if there is even the slightest evidence of an outright attack against a national entity, they cut them off to protect themselves. It happened to Saren, and it will happen to Shepard.

Saren did more than attack a colony. Saren also lied to the Council about having done so, not making any attempt to defend his actions nor present any reasoning to the Council for them. And he was put on trial before the Council at the Citadel, not at any Turian world let alone the Turian homeworld. Thank you for making my case for me.

As for plausable deniability, they cannot deny that he is a spectre, since he never officially died (the guard on the Citadel assumed it was a clerical error), nor was he ever officially stripped of his station. They would have to admit publicly that another one of their spectres went rogue, and would have to do so before they even held any trial.

That doesn't seem particularly clever to me. Perhaps it does to you, though?

[Moiaussi]

Jigero wrote...

First of all he's not a spectre anymore, he can get reinstated but Anderson tells you it's title only.  On top of that, the Council basically told Shepard stay out of our way and don't ****** us off, then he goes out on a mission working for an organization who is a direct threat to the council, under orders from the Human alliance (note this because this was not a council mission or in favor of the council) and kills 300 thousand plus Batarians to stop a threat the Council doesn't even perceive is real. Inciting a war the Council would refused to get involved in.

How is the Council willing to protect Shepard in any of this? The council turned on Saren for less and he was a Veterian and trusted Spectre. I highly doubt the Council wouldn't offer up Shepard's head on a platter to the Batarians if it ment stoping the war.

When does Anderson tell you it is title only and how in blazes can it be title only? He was never officially stripped of the title. He wasn't even ever officially dead.

Who said anything about Civil? the Leaders of the Alliance are probably on earth, or Earth is the meeting point. Is it so hard to swallow that you know humans might be on Earth in the future?

BUT THE CODEX SAYS THEY ARE BASED ON ARCTURUS. Sorry for the caps, but that has been pointed out a few times now.

a trial is a trial, what does it matter?

You have no idea about jurisdictions, do you? They don't try people for shooting someone in a traffic court.

Why not? Earth is where Humans are from and the alliance is centered. Where else would they have it?

Arcturus, exactly where the codex says they have it.

Heres a novel idea why don't you wait until ME3 is out which will probably expalin all this before you go around throwing the word "Plot hole" like it's your new favorite word.

Here is a better idea. Try reading the actual codex entries on the Alliance so you can try to argue in an informed manner.