1529 réponses à ce sujet

[Avissel]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
OK, true and fair enough, what about the rest of what he said?

"This is an unofficial dev diary. I used to work at BioWare as a writer on Mass
Effect 1 and 2. In August of 2009 I moved on to new position at
another company. Therefore, I don't speak for BioWare, nor for any of my
former colleagues , nor for Electronic Arts. The following is my
opinion only."

[nelly21]

@ Zulu

The Alliance already existed when Drescher "went rogue" as you put it. For it to have been a pronunciamento, Drescher would have had to make a declaration against the Systems Alliance, which he didn't.

Did you create your own Mass Effect universe?

Modifié par nelly21, 13 avril 2011 - 08:41 .

[rolson00]

shepard is going to earth for trial because he blew up a batarian system wiping out 300,000 lives and does not have any proof of the reapers coming (as it all went up with the system). the batarians want blood, they have always wanted an excuse to go to war with earth. shepards trial is symbolic it is to avoid war and keep the peace with the batarians.
this is all in arrival.

Modifié par rolson00, 13 avril 2011 - 08:40 .

[Zulu_DFA]

BAOBAB_AOTEAROA wrote...

hello zulu, i am not a jurist, but i think your argument is not well enough researched, don´t get me wrong please , i am not talking about your research on the mass effect universe but instead on your research on existing trial procedures on earth.

i think we tend to understand the law and the relations between states in judicial matters as as relatively ordered and well oiled system, well it is not, in the sense that there must exist a rather complex order of law hierarchy between lands, there must exist defined fields where this hierarchy relation actually applies(criminal, bankruptcy and so on..) and the there is of course the extradition law ( especially important in Shepard's case)  where another rules apply again.....


...oh there is one last factor, the most important actually, the political will.

…..because no matter  what Jan-Jacques Rousseau told us about independence of the different state powers,  without political will there will be no trail , or it will be a kind of farce trial.

there are numerous examples of this right now on earth:

look at the former secretary of state of the USA Henry Kissinger, a USA politician would be a  very much  researched person in Latin America for his involvement in the Argentinian and Chilean dictatorship, but usa doesn´t  permit it.

look actually at the former dictator Pinochet, he cannot be called to court in Chile because of political and juridical agreements so a spanish court is the only possibility for him to be legally punished for murdering thousands,and all this thanks to a very brave ( or mad) spanish judge( Balthazar Garzón) and Chileans who escaped to Spain and press charges against him. Will the Spanish ever get hands on him? i doubt it he is too old now …...

since we are talking about war criminals, you should definitely  look at Adolf Eichmann´s capture in argentina on wikipedia, it is not a straight forward procedure, the mossad agent would have been trialed if caught in argentina.


…..and last, italy ,dear italy, a state that has given us many wonderful things, has also given  to light , THIS SAME DAY, a law that will permit it´s prime minister Berlusconi to avoid at leats two trails

MY FIRST POINT IS that the will of earth in  will matter, and especially so if Shepard has been caught on earth and somebody pressed charges against him( even for convenient political reasons  - a human icon judged by batarians? no way.....

MY SECOND POINT concerns the extradition law and extradition agreements.

at this very moment in Austria, Salzburg, there is one man sitting behind bars, this man was once a first minister of a little state in Europe called Croatia. Different Croatian governmental institutions requested his arrest for corruption charges( 200 mill. euro the damage apparently), but he was caught  in Austria.
Croatia formally applied for extradition in December, but as it appears, Austrian authorities have reason to believe ivo sanader could be an useful witness on a matters regarding another trial, and Austrian extradition law permits them to keep him in austria in jail until the authorities are satisfied. i must underline there are NO charges against him in Austria.


::::::::::::::::::BACK TO THE GAME:::::::::::::::::

since we don´t know  the place of capture of shepard or the identity of forces beeing responsible for the capture we may presume that

        place of capture is earth
OR
                 the forces responsible for capture, want to bring him to earth

  and  since we don´t know

the political will of human kind andextradition agreements valid on earth

WE CANNOT SAY, NOW,




THERE IS NO REASON FOR SHEPARD TO BE TRIED AND/OR IMPRISONED ON EARTH!!!!

because that would not be  logical and reasonable with the element we know right now.

i am trying to say we have to wait for ME3, to see if you are right ZULU,  ha ha ….. right now you are not.

edit: layout

I'm basing my argument of the "Arrival" DLC, which we don't need to wait for, so your last point doesn't stand.

As to the rest, it's all good, but as long as it's not explained in the game, in some twist, like the European Union special task force grabs Shepard (how?), so that the European Union could prosecute Shepard for blowing up the Bahak system (why would European Union want such a thing?), the tiral on Earth makes no sence.

The fact that eludes the most people here is that the Systems Alliance is independent of Earth and there is little to no present political connection between the two, and Earth's nations have a very limited say and in no way control the Systems Alliance. Therefore "Earth" can't act around the Systems Alliance, which is the only Human power regonized on the Galactic stage by other powers. And the capital of the Alliance is the Arcturus Station. Moreover, in the default storyline, the Alliance is actively overtaking the Citadel - capital of the "galactic community", so there is really no reason why Earth wouldn't have dropped in significance (in the eyes of the aliens anyway) even further down in this storyline.

[Zulu_DFA]

nelly21 wrote...
@ Zulu

The Alliance already existed when Drescher "went rogue" as you put it. For it to have been a pronunciamento, Drescher would have had to make a declaration against the Systems Alliance, which he didn't.

Did you create your own Mass Effect universe?

1. The Alliance is created by Earth's governments and answers and is accountable to them.
2. FCW occurs.
3. Earth's governments bicker.
4. Alliance moves in without orders.
5. ???
6. Profit Alliance establishes its own Parliament, is independent, recognized by the Citadel Council.

Theese are the facts, with the exception of #5, which is anyone's guess. So I don't know if Drescher and other Alliance functionaries made a formal declaration of independence or not - probably not, since it doesn't pay to be dramatic if you're already on top, but Earth's governments had to swallow the fact #6.

Oh, and I'm sure Drescher is a "she", although there is no proof one way or another.

Avissel wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

OK, true and fair enough, what about the rest of what he said?

"This is an unofficial dev diary. I used to work at BioWare as a writer on Mass
Effect 1 and 2. In August of 2009 I moved on to new position at
another company. Therefore, I don't speak for BioWare, nor for any of my
former colleagues , nor for Electronic Arts. The following is my
opinion only."

Umm, since we're kinda shooting opinions back and forth anyway, I figured the opinion of the guy who actually WROTE THIS STUFF might hit harder on certain thick material...

And so far his opinion hasn't been openly contradicted by any official EA product. But sure, retcons happen. So this whole Shepard's trial on Earth may be a part of it coming... or just a plot hole.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 13 avril 2011 - 09:03 .

[Avissel]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Umm, since we're kinda shooting opinions back and forth anyway, I figured the opinion of the guy who actually WROTE THIS STUFF might hit harder on certain thick material...

And so far his opinion hasn't been openly contradicted by any official EA product. But sure, retcons happen. So this whole Shepard's trial on Earth may be a part of it coming... or just a plot hole.

It also wasn't endorsed by them.

No where in the game lore does it ever explictly say if the Earth Nations are or are not a part of the System Alliance Parliment. Until we know that, the rest of the arguments are just what people think or infer based on the little information given.

Independent could mean that the SA has nothing at all to do with Earth.
It could also mean that Earth no longer has singular control over the action of the SA, and instead is merely part of the system that governs it's actions.

We dont know, and that one point is pretty much the sticking point of everybody arguements.

Even if what you think is right, it's still not a plot hole, as there is never any indication that trials CANT be held on Earth. All they have to do is say "it is being held on Earth because ______". It's also not a retcon, because as I said, if you specficy something that is not specified, thats not a retcon.

Now, if the games started off with "And so the President of Earth put Shepard on trial" that would be a retcon and a plot hole. As there it is a known fact that Earth does not have a singular Government.

[Zulu_DFA]

rolson00 wrote...

shepard is going to earth for trial because he blew up a batarian system wiping out 300,000 lives and does not have any proof of the reapers coming (as it all went up with the system). the batarians want blood, they have always wanted an excuse to go to war with earth. shepards trial is symbolic it is to avoid war and keep the peace with the batarians.
this is all in arrival.

And it all doesn't make a little bit of sence.

1. The Alliance admitting responsibility for a covert op, which the Batarians can't prove ever happened. For all the Galaxy knows it could be the Batarians themselves who blew up their relay.

2. How trying Shepard can appease them, when they want blood? They want more than one gallon of it, I guess...

3. And how setting the trial on Earth and not on the Citadel / Arcturus station can help with any of that?

4. If Sheaprd is a Spectre, the Alliance:
a) can't touch him,
must be happy to declare him a "Council's mad dog, not ours!" to avoid the responsibility for the Bahak System.

5. How does Hackett know it all in advance???

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 13 avril 2011 - 09:15 .

[Silmane]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

rolson00 wrote...

shepard is going to earth for trial because he blew up a batarian system wiping out 300,000 lives and does not have any proof of the reapers coming (as it all went up with the system). the batarians want blood, they have always wanted an excuse to go to war with earth. shepards trial is symbolic it is to avoid war and keep the peace with the batarians.
this is all in arrival.

And it all doesn't make a little bit of sence.

1. The Alliance admitting responsibility for a covert op, which the Batarians can't prove ever happened. For all the Galaxy knows it could be the Batarians themelves who blew up their relay.

2. How trying Shepard can appease them, when they want blood?

3. And how setting the trial on Earth and not on the Citadel / Arctururs station can help with any of that of that?

4. If Sheaprd is a spectre. the Alliance:
a) can't touch him
must be happy to declare him a "Council's mad dog, not ours!" to avoid the responsibility for the Bahak System.

5. How does Hackett know it all in advance???

All crew dead: Normandy coming in for pick up. 
Roger th-wait, what? Who the hell are you?

Gotta love Arrival. 

The trial being held on Earth(OR ANY TRIAL AT ALL) is one of the worst story elements to emerge out of ME, yet. 

He starts talking about how the Batarians are going to want blood, but he says the evidence against Shepard is weak. In the same run of dialogue, he starts saying that I have to face Earth for what I've done. What the hell are you talking about, Hackett? Being shoehorned into this trial is weak, weak, weak. I should've had the option to execute Hackett right where he stood. He's basically betraying me, only because the writing is sloppy.

It's not like Kenson forwarded information to the Batarians that I was on Project Base after I was knocked out by Rho because THEY WERE INDOCTRINATED. Why the hell whould she do that, anyway? Giving herself away, after getting out of prison. She wouldn't warn Hackett, either. Why would she? 

The entire system was wiped out in an instant and everyone knows the Paragon option to warn Batarians doesn't go through. I didn't even pick that one. 

Arrival has good music, good cinematics, but is this writing acceptable? Don't worry, you don't have to answer that. I already know the answer. 

Modifié par Silmane, 13 avril 2011 - 09:28 .

[Harbinger of your Destiny]

Perhaps this is going to be a large trial and Arcturas Station simply doesn't have the resources to accomadate it. Also they want it to be symbolic and if the Batarian government sees Earth the birthplace of humanity condeming Shepard's actions it might just look better. Or Bioware might have a small snipet of Shepard asking why this trial is on earth and not arcturas station and you will have your answer there.

[rolson00]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

rolson00 wrote...

shepard is going to earth for trial because he blew up a batarian system wiping out 300,000 lives and does not have any proof of the reapers coming (as it all went up with the system). the batarians want blood, they have always wanted an excuse to go to war with earth. shepards trial is symbolic it is to avoid war and keep the peace with the batarians.
this is all in arrival.

And it all doesn't make a little bit of sence.

1. The Alliance admitting responsibility for a covert op, which the Batarians can't prove ever happened. For all the Galaxy knows it could be the Batarians themselves who blew up their relay.

2. How trying Shepard can appease them, when they want blood? They want more than one gallon of it, I guess...

3. And how setting the trial on Earth and not on the Citadel / Arcturus station can help with any of that?

4. If Sheaprd is a Spectre, the Alliance:
a) can't touch him,
must be happy to declare him a "Council's mad dog, not ours!" to avoid the responsibility for the Bahak System.

5. How does Hackett know it all in advance???

their system was blown up shepard was probs seen breaking the dr out of the prision that is all the need and as i said the trial is to keep the peace

[SalsaDMA]

centauri2002 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

The majority of the arguments here are based on assumption and what we believe is going to happen in ME3. How about we just wait and see what happens? Whether you think it makes little sense or not, it's not a story-breaker. Is there really a need to make such a big deal out of such a minor issue?

That, and there have been arguments put forth here that sound like plausible explanations to me.

It's already happened. Hackett has already foretold the future, and it has been confirmed by the GI article, and it's quite implausible, for the reasons discussed in the thread. And the "plausible explanations" needed to be at least hinted at by Hackett when he was making a series of statements in the end of the DLC, some of which contradicted even his own statements from the beginning of the DLC. Without "plausible explanations" made in-game it's a bunch of plot holes.

Do you need every little detail explained to you as events happen? How realistic is that going to be? It's quite possible a reasonable explanation will be given at the beginning of ME3. Just because the trial's happening and has been confirmed via DLC and GI, doesn't mean there's no good reason for it.

The arguments given in this thread as to why it is happening on Earth by players have been plausible, just as some of the arguments you make against it are as well. If you could recognise that, it would make for a much more interesting, and dare I say fun, debate. But all I can see is you arguing anything anyone says that doesn't fit into your objections. 

At the end of the day, is it going to ruin the game for you if you don't find the official explanation plausible? If it is, don't play it. If it isn't, just drop it. 

Here's the deal.

1. We establish a fact and decide it is a well known fact. Let's make this fact "You can't breathe in spacevacum without any equipment supplying you air".

2. We let this fact be enforced several times throughout the story.

3. Suddenly, with no explanation given as to how, a guy takes a stroll through space, naked, smokes a cigarette out there with clear puffs of smoke and walks back in after 15 minutes.

4. No mentioning at all is then made about how he was able to circumvent
fact #1 and the only explanation you can get from the writers is: "It
was a cool and incredible moment". Oh.. And it is now conisdered canon
that the guy could just walk out there without any issues and without
any form of preperation at all or gear to keep him alive.


Replace "Breathe without air" with "Spectres are above the law and answer only to the council", and whole of point #3 in the above with Arrivals Hacket telling Spectre Shepard he must stand trial on earth.

That's frigging crappy plotwriting. This is not about 'details needing to be spelled out', this is about the writers taking responsibility for consistency in their own damn lore.

[Almostfaceman]

No coup is required nor is it stated in the codex anywhere that there was some kinda eye-ballin' between the Earth governments and Alliance right before it declared independence.  There's nothing at all written that says the Earth nations couldn't have realized their mistake earlier at Shanxi and decided to work together like this:

Nation #1:  Ya know, so-and-so who's running X at the Alliance IS doing a really good job.  Their popularity has risen ever since Shanxi!
Nation #2: Yeah, he is one of us after all...
Nation #1: Waitasec... well they blew YOU off and did what they wanted, which turned out to be the right thing!
Nation #3: And that means they blew US off as well since we're allied with Nation #2!
Nation #5: Look, our bickering didn't do us any good before and now some of us are pretty low in the polls for not being able to come to quick solutions.  I have a plan!
Nation #1: Your plans ALWAYS suck!
Nation #5: Just hear me out you pencil-necked geek!  Look!  We can't be squabbling like idiots in front of the Asari!  They're too damn sexy, er, I mean powerful!
Nation #4: Pervert.
Nation #5: Shut it church-boy!  Ok, this is what I propose!  We all work together!  We can have.. a U.N. in space!  
Nation #6: But my military is more powerful than...
Nation #5: Look right now your budget is stretched to the bone building ships for space.  Wouldn't you like to... SHARE the burden?
Nation #6: No-one orders my troops!  No one!
Nation #5: Relax commie-boy!  You will have a say!  We'll make the Alliance independent - so NONE of us can get the upper hand! But we'll all be affiliated and have our say!
Nation #3: And I get to see my ally and friend and neighbor #2 more often!  I'm so happy!
Nation #2: Um, #3, I'm not gay.
Nation #1: Hmm, so we could present a united front, an equal front, to those Turian bastards huh?
Nation #5: Yes, that's one benefit!  Plus, we don't want to be fighting each other for colony rights in front of those Asari sexies... er I mean those brainy Salarians and looking like a bunch of boobs who can't work together!
Nation #3: So, much of my military might is up there now, in space.  What do I get out of this deal?
Nation #5: You get our military might added to yours in space, and we can all divy up the colonial proceeds without any of us putting up all the risk!
Nation #2: Ewww, colonial politics, whata headache!
Nation #5: Solved!  Those political headaches now belong to - our Alliance!  It will be independent, so none of us have to make the ultimate decisions!  Some boob we'll elect as chair of our parliament will have to do that.
Nation #1: So, you're saying we can form an Alliance and work together under an independent political & military branch?
Nation #5: Right! So, when we're not in agreement, we have a mechanism to get decisions made quickly!
Nation #4: Alright, let's talk to our Alliance personnel on Arcturus and see what kind of plan we can draw up to get this in motion.  This will make us more popular than ever when our citizens see we're working together! 

[Zulu_DFA]

Avissel wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Umm, since we're kinda shooting opinions back and forth anyway, I figured the opinion of the guy who actually WROTE THIS STUFF might hit harder on certain thick material...

And so far his opinion hasn't been openly contradicted by any official EA product. But sure, retcons happen. So this whole Shepard's trial on Earth may be a part of it coming... or just a plot hole.

It also wasn't endorsed by them.

But it was - when they included his work in ME1!

Avissel wrote...

No where in the game lore does it ever explictly say if the Earth Nations are or are not a part of the System Alliance Parliment. Until we know that, the rest of the arguments are just what people think or infer based on the little information given.

Right, and some inferrences are more in line with that information than others. I've just gave you one more reason why my inferrences are correct.

Avissel wrote...

Independent could mean that the SA has nothing at all to do with Earth.
It could also mean that Earth no longer has singular control over the action of the SA, and instead is merely part of the system that governs its actions.

We dont know, and that one point is pretty much the sticking point of everybody arguements.

We have the fact: the Alliance undertook a critical action without Earth's consent at all (in other words, independently) during the FCW.

Avissel wrote...

Even if what you think is right, it's still not a plot hole, as there is never any indication that trials CANT be held on Earth. All they have to do is say "it is being held on Earth because ______".

Right. And Hackett failed to say that. I expect this failure to continue into ME3.

Avissel wrote...

It's also not a retcon, because as I said, if you specficy something that is not specified, thats not a retcon.

I agree, but it comes very close to it.

Avissel wrote...

Now, if the games started off with "And so the President of Earth put Shepard on trial" that would be a retcon and a plot hole. As there it is a known fact that Earth does not have a singular Government.

There are also known facts that the Alliance is an independent government and is based on the Arcturus Station; that Shepard is a military serviceman of the Alliance, and the military headquarters of the Alliance are on the Arcturus station too; that Shepard's alleged wrongdoings occured off Earth, and do not directly concern any political body on Earth, and his present location is off Earth. So making Earth the scene of his trial is too much of a leap in the narrative to be left unexplained. And as long as it remains unexplained, it's a plothole.

As per the "Arrival" DLC, it's a hole (one of many) in the plot of the "Arrival" DLC.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 13 avril 2011 - 09:46 .

[Silmane]

rolson00 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

rolson00 wrote...

shepard is going to earth for trial because he blew up a batarian system wiping out 300,000 lives and does not have any proof of the reapers coming (as it all went up with the system). the batarians want blood, they have always wanted an excuse to go to war with earth. shepards trial is symbolic it is to avoid war and keep the peace with the batarians.
this is all in arrival.

And it all doesn't make a little bit of sence.

1. The Alliance admitting responsibility for a covert op, which the Batarians can't prove ever happened. For all the Galaxy knows it could be the Batarians themselves who blew up their relay.

2. How trying Shepard can appease them, when they want blood? They want more than one gallon of it, I guess...

3. And how setting the trial on Earth and not on the Citadel / Arcturus station can help with any of that?

4. If Sheaprd is a Spectre, the Alliance:
a) can't touch him,
must be happy to declare him a "Council's mad dog, not ours!" to avoid the responsibility for the Bahak System.

5. How does Hackett know it all in advance???

their system was blown up shepard was probs seen breaking the dr out of the prision that is all the need and as i said the trial is to keep the peace

Every Batarian that ran into Shepard got killed. How would anyone even know that was Shepard? Nevermind that you can suit up in a Cerberus full suit, a collector like get up, a couple helmets that completely block your face. 

Nevermind that you can completely restructure your face after dying in the beginning of ME2. 

[Moiaussi]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

OK, I admit, that in some uber-lawful-good perception of the world and the ME universe, Kuril and his goons can count as "law enforcement". As I understand it though, they are just that: private goons in no-man's-land, whom anyone can kick in the arse, and as long as he gets away with it, nobody is going to hold that against him.

Which changes nothing I said. Their role in law enforcement is whatever is politically expedient.

[Avissel]

Silmane wrote...

Every Batarian that ran into Shepard got killed. How would anyone even know that was Shepard? Nevermind that you can suit up in a Cerberus full suit, a collector like get up, a couple helmets that completely block your face. 

Nevermind that you can completely restructure your face after dying in the beginning of ME2. 

A Few of Kenisons people escaped the base right before the destruction. You think they wouldn't say "Yeah it was Shepard." ?

[Thalorin1919]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Thalorin1919 wrote...

I really don't know how to get it through your head. Arcturus is merely a station, WHILE EARTH IS TEH CENTER WHERE TEH HUMANZ R FROM!!11

So what?

And Arcturus is "merely" a station where the most important institutions on the Systems Alliance are situated.

Thalorin1919 wrote...

I mean, really? Think of a real-life example. Do you think that they would hold a trial for some war-hero in the middle-east in some Fort out somewhere that not everyone knows about, rather then the supreme court?

In Washington, D.C. And the Arcturus Station is that Space Washington, D.C.

Thalorin1919 wrote...

What makes you even think - for one damn second - that high-ranking officials would go out to a vulnerable station compared to the more safe Earth? Derp?

The highest ranking officials already are on this "vulnerable" station which is the most secure place in the entire Human space.

Thalorin1919 wrote...

And the Council doesn't have to back anyone.

Right, the Council has to try its spectres, because nobody else can dare to.

Thalorin1919 wrote...

Also - you didn't write the mass effect universe. I think that's a problem. You think that the station and blarg blarg blarg does all these things, but the truth is - You. Don't. Know.

The truth is, I've actually read the damn in-game Codex, while you haven't. Now, here's your chance:

BioWare writers wrote...

=== Stations: Arcturus Station ===

Arcturus Station is the gateway to Sol, a 5-kilometer diameter space station at the trailing Lagrange
point of the gas giant Themis. Construction on Arcturus Station began in 2151 and concluded in 2162. It
was inaugurated in 2156, and has served as the military and political headquarters of the Systems
Alliance from the First Contact War until the present.
 
When humanity activated the Charon Mass Relay in 2149, it led to Arcturus, 36 light years from Sol,
Earth's sun. Arcturus is the third brightest star seen from Earth. It is an ancient red giant from the
generation born before Sol. Its worlds are either gas giants or ice chunks. While some rocky debris
exists, the metal content is 25% lower than normal. To build Arcturus Station, metallic asteroids were
towed through the mass relays to the construction site. Many of these asteroids remain near the
station, their mined out areas home to transient populations.
 
The expense of bringing construct materials into the system was acceptable due to its strategic value.
With three primary mass relays in addition to the secondary one to Sol, Arcturus is a major
communications and military chokepoint. The Alliance 1st Fleet is based in Arcturus, where it can guard
the gates to Sol and react to incursions in the three connected clusters. The Station also hosts the
Systems Alliance Parliament and the Systems Alliance Military general headquarters. Its permanent
population is approximately 45,000.
 
Arcturus is actually from the galactic halo, one of a cluster of 52 stars that are "crashing through" the
disc of the galaxy. In a billion years, Arcturus will be sailing through the depths of extragalactic dark
space.

Right. Now you're just taking things out of context, molding them with others, to try to justify what you're saying.

Arcuturus is a political HQ, sure. But isn't Earth as well? Frankly, I don't think it's an argument of whether or not which is more "logical" but which is better for the story. I mean, I don't know, but Earth (the birthplace of humanity) getting decimated by Reapers sounds like it will have a more dramatic effect then a floating piece of metal (not birthplace of humanity). But you'll probably just say, "nao, it dosent cause its teh arcturus."

A plothole is an inconsistency to a story. Having the trial on Earth is really no different then on Arcturus. Arcturus may be a pivotal point, but Earth is just as important.  There both critical points for humanity, you're just the only one jamming the thumb up your ass about it cause of what a codex says. In which you're also forgetting - the writers wrote the codex as well, and a writer can do what they want with their story.

It's not a plothole, it's a difference in opinion. The trial is taking place on Earth. So either deal with it, or just don't accept it and not buy the ****ing game. Idiot.

Modifié par Thalorin1919, 13 avril 2011 - 09:42 .

[SalsaDMA]

Silmane wrote...

rolson00 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

rolson00 wrote...

shepard is going to earth for trial because he blew up a batarian system wiping out 300,000 lives and does not have any proof of the reapers coming (as it all went up with the system). the batarians want blood, they have always wanted an excuse to go to war with earth. shepards trial is symbolic it is to avoid war and keep the peace with the batarians.
this is all in arrival.

And it all doesn't make a little bit of sence.

1. The Alliance admitting responsibility for a covert op, which the Batarians can't prove ever happened. For all the Galaxy knows it could be the Batarians themselves who blew up their relay.

2. How trying Shepard can appease them, when they want blood? They want more than one gallon of it, I guess...

3. And how setting the trial on Earth and not on the Citadel / Arcturus station can help with any of that?

4. If Sheaprd is a Spectre, the Alliance:
a) can't touch him,
must be happy to declare him a "Council's mad dog, not ours!" to avoid the responsibility for the Bahak System.

5. How does Hackett know it all in advance???

their system was blown up shepard was probs seen breaking the dr out of the prision that is all the need and as i said the trial is to keep the peace

Every Batarian that ran into Shepard got killed. How would anyone even know that was Shepard? Nevermind that you can suit up in a Cerberus full suit, a collector like get up, a couple helmets that completely block your face. 

Nevermind that you can completely restructure your face after dying in the beginning of ME2. 

Lol. That made me think of a scene.

"Ok, can you point out which of the following 3 persons where at prison facility?"
*3 guys in full cerberus suits stand against a wall..*
"Eh... They all look alike..."
"You DID say this was the armor the guy breaking out the prisoner was wearing, right?"
"Yes.."
"Does any of the 3 people look like the person you saw?"
"All 3 look like him.. I can't tell them apart for crying out loud!"
"I see...."

[Silmane]

Thalorin1919 wrote...

Right. Now you're just taking things out of context, molding them with others, to try to justify what you're saying.

Arcuturus is a political HQ, sure. But isn't Earth as well? Frankly, I don't think it's an argument of whether or not which is more "logical" but which is better for the story. I mean, I don't know, but Earth (the birthplace of humanity) getting decimated by Reapers sounds like it will have a more dramatic effect then a floating piece of metal (not birthplace of humanity). But you'll probably just say, "nao, it dosent cause its teh arcturus."

A plothole is an inconsistency to a story. Having the trial on Earth is really no different then on Arcturus. Arcturus may be a pivotal point, but Earth is just as important.  There both critical points for humanity, you're just the only one jamming the thumb up your ass about it cause of what a codex says. In which you're also forgetting - the writers wrote the codex as well, and a writer can do what they want with their story.

It's not a plothole, it's a difference in opinion. The trial is taking place on Earth. So either deal with it, or just don't accept it and not buy the ****ing game. Idiot.

EVERYBODY STOP TALKING ABOUT MASS EFFECT ON MASS EFFECT FORUMS!

[Thalorin1919]

Capeo wrote...

Thalorin1919 wrote...

Space station =/= Earth.

I really don't know how to get it through your head. Arcturus is merely a station, WHILE EARTH IS TEH CENTER WHERE TEH HUMANZ R FROM!!11

I mean, really? Think of a real-life example. Do you think that they would hold a trial for some war-hero in the middle-east in some Fort out somewhere that not everyone knows about, rather then the supreme court? What makes you even think - for one damn second - that high-ranking officials would go out to a vulnerable station compared to the more safe Earth? Derp?

And the Council doesn't have to back anyone.

Also - you didn't write the mass effect universe. I think that's a problem. You think that the station and blarg blarg blarg does all these things, but the truth is - You. Don't. Know.

Arcturus is the home of all human government.  It's not some fort out in the middle of nowhere.  It's the seat of the human parliment that GOVERNS Earth.  That is according to the Mass Effect universe.  There's nothing "vunerable" about Arcturus. 

Another note?  The Supreme Court doesn't try war heroes or criminals.  They don't try criminals period.  War criminals get tried at the Hague in view of all countries.  The equivilant of that would be the Council.

The example was more of how the Supreme Court is high-up and important. Don't act like I don't know what they do and don't do.

And are you the same guy that added in the whole "Inherit the Wind" thing before? Because that was retarded.

[Thalorin1919]

Silmane wrote...

Thalorin1919 wrote...

Right. Now you're just taking things out of context, molding them with others, to try to justify what you're saying.

Arcuturus is a political HQ, sure. But isn't Earth as well? Frankly, I don't think it's an argument of whether or not which is more "logical" but which is better for the story. I mean, I don't know, but Earth (the birthplace of humanity) getting decimated by Reapers sounds like it will have a more dramatic effect then a floating piece of metal (not birthplace of humanity). But you'll probably just say, "nao, it dosent cause its teh arcturus."

A plothole is an inconsistency to a story. Having the trial on Earth is really no different then on Arcturus. Arcturus may be a pivotal point, but Earth is just as important.  There both critical points for humanity, you're just the only one jamming the thumb up your ass about it cause of what a codex says. In which you're also forgetting - the writers wrote the codex as well, and a writer can do what they want with their story.

It's not a plothole, it's a difference in opinion. The trial is taking place on Earth. So either deal with it, or just don't accept it and not buy the ****ing game. Idiot.

EVERYBODY STOP TALKING ABOUT MASS EFFECT ON MASS EFFECT FORUMS!

There's more important things about Mass Effect to talk about rather then listen to two guys rant about how this whole thing is a "plot hole".

The caps lock got my attention though. GOOD JOB, LADY.

[Silmane]

Thalorin1919 wrote...

Silmane wrote...

Thalorin1919 wrote...

Right. Now you're just taking things out of context, molding them with others, to try to justify what you're saying.

Arcuturus is a political HQ, sure. But isn't Earth as well? Frankly, I don't think it's an argument of whether or not which is more "logical" but which is better for the story. I mean, I don't know, but Earth (the birthplace of humanity) getting decimated by Reapers sounds like it will have a more dramatic effect then a floating piece of metal (not birthplace of humanity). But you'll probably just say, "nao, it dosent cause its teh arcturus."

A plothole is an inconsistency to a story. Having the trial on Earth is really no different then on Arcturus. Arcturus may be a pivotal point, but Earth is just as important.  There both critical points for humanity, you're just the only one jamming the thumb up your ass about it cause of what a codex says. In which you're also forgetting - the writers wrote the codex as well, and a writer can do what they want with their story.

It's not a plothole, it's a difference in opinion. The trial is taking place on Earth. So either deal with it, or just don't accept it and not buy the ****ing game. Idiot.

EVERYBODY STOP TALKING ABOUT MASS EFFECT ON MASS EFFECT FORUMS!

There's more important things about Mass Effect to talk about rather then listen to two guys rant about how this whole thing is a "plot hole".

The caps lock got my attention though. GOOD JOB, LADY.

You realize you didn't have to click the thread at all, right? I already know you knew better and you did it anyway. Reinforcing the point that you're just looking to start stuff in the thread. 

You were okay with the debating part of it then you started name calling, etc. I'm detecting critical levels of umadium. Just get out of the thread? lol

[Thalorin1919]

Silmane wrote...

Thalorin1919 wrote...

Silmane wrote...

Thalorin1919 wrote...

Right. Now you're just taking things out of context, molding them with others, to try to justify what you're saying.

Arcuturus is a political HQ, sure. But isn't Earth as well? Frankly, I don't think it's an argument of whether or not which is more "logical" but which is better for the story. I mean, I don't know, but Earth (the birthplace of humanity) getting decimated by Reapers sounds like it will have a more dramatic effect then a floating piece of metal (not birthplace of humanity). But you'll probably just say, "nao, it dosent cause its teh arcturus."

A plothole is an inconsistency to a story. Having the trial on Earth is really no different then on Arcturus. Arcturus may be a pivotal point, but Earth is just as important.  There both critical points for humanity, you're just the only one jamming the thumb up your ass about it cause of what a codex says. In which you're also forgetting - the writers wrote the codex as well, and a writer can do what they want with their story.

It's not a plothole, it's a difference in opinion. The trial is taking place on Earth. So either deal with it, or just don't accept it and not buy the ****ing game. Idiot.

EVERYBODY STOP TALKING ABOUT MASS EFFECT ON MASS EFFECT FORUMS!

There's more important things about Mass Effect to talk about rather then listen to two guys rant about how this whole thing is a "plot hole".

The caps lock got my attention though. GOOD JOB, LADY.

You realize you didn't have to click the thread at all, right? I already know you knew better and you did it anyway. Reinforcing the point that you're just looking to start stuff in the thread. 

You were okay with the debating part of it then you started name calling, etc. I'm detecting critical levels of umadium. Just get out of the thread? lol

asdlfjhsl.

fair enough.

[Zulu_DFA]

Thalorin1919 wrote...

Right. Now you're just taking things out of context, molding them with others, to try to justify what you're saying.

It's called "back up my inferrences with evidence". As an alternative, I can offer you to replay Mass Effect (reading all the Codex entries and planet descriptions).

Thalorin1919 wrote...

Arcuturus is a political HQ, sure. But isn't Earth as well?

No. Earth isn't even politically united.

Thalorin1919 wrote...

Frankly, I don't think it's an argument of whether or not which is more "logical" but which is better for the story.

It's the argument about how this "better for the story" is being brought about, and I'm on the side of the argument that the way this "better for the story" is being brought about is so bad, that it would be the best for the story, if it never happened.

Thalorin1919 wrote...

I mean, I don't know, but Earth (the birthplace of humanity) getting decimated by Reapers sounds like it will have a more dramatic effect then a floating piece of metal (not birthplace of humanity). But you'll probably just say, "nao, it dosent cause its teh arcturus."

The Reapers have their own reasons to do what they do. Maybe they aren't even going to be fully disclosed, but that's all right, given their  role of enigmatic bad guys. However "the reason Shepard's trial is on Earth because the Reapers are going to invade it" doesn't fly, because it doesn't make any sense. And drama without sense is a farce. I already have a fun theory that Mass Effect 2 is a satire. Mass Effect 3 may just prove that it's not so much a fun theory, I'm afraid.

Thalorin1919 wrote...

A plothole is an inconsistency to a story. Having the trial on Earth is really no different then on Arcturus. Arcturus may be a pivotal point, but Earth is just as important. There both critical points for humanity, you're just the only one jamming the thumb up your ass about it cause of what a codex says. In which you're also forgetting - the writers wrote the codex as well, and a writer can do what they want with their story.

Sure. The writer can put a plot hole in his story, or a retcon.

Thalorin1919 wrote...

It's not a plothole, it's a difference in opinion. The trial is taking place on Earth. So either deal with it, or just don't accept it and not buy the ****ing game. Idiot.

Excelent point! We have a difference of opinion on whether or not it's a plot hole, and since, in your opinion, it's not, your opinion is wrong! Deal with it.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 13 avril 2011 - 10:16 .

[Cyberstrike nTo]

I was under the impression the Human Systems Alliance Headquarters is on Earth and that the Arcturus Space Station is more or less a base for the Alliance fleet.

Modifié par Cyberstrike nTo, 13 avril 2011 - 10:20 .