1529 réponses à ce sujet

[Almostfaceman]

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

Chewin3 wrote...

^Citadel attacked again?

Yes.

It is the capital of the Council species, in case you haven't noticed. Just because the Reapers failed to take it once, doesn't mean they should give up attacking it all together.

I think people like you are kinda missing the point with the Reapers.

Look, attacking Earth first is a lunch break for them.  They aren't concerned.  They aren't angsty.  They aren't worried.  They are totally 100% confident in victory.  We are nothing.  They are the pinnacle of existence and evolution. So their option 1 went balls up.  So what?  S/h/i/t/e happens.  They shrug and move on.  Nothing we've seen of them indicates any worry whatsoever.  In their eyes we are doomed - we're the walking dead - we're just too stupid to know it yet.  They don't even know what real defeat tastes like because they've apparently never experienced it.  The probability of us winning in their eyes is probably akin to us at this particular moment stepping on a beam of light and surfing the earth's atmosphere.  It's like looking at a chess board - the way we look at it, there are two sides and each side has it's set pieces.  The way they look at it they have all the pieces.

So, they're curious about Shepard and earthlings.  Since we're all dead anyway, they'll take a breather and stomp our guts out to remind us we're dead and to take samples.

It's really no more complicated than that.

Modifié par Almostfaceman, 16 avril 2011 - 07:15 .

[Stukovkh]

I just wanted to point out that Zulu made a big case of Arcturus Station being the capital of the Systems Alliance, and provided source from the ME1 codex on Arcturus Station. Yet the codex entry on Earth in ME2 states: "The homeworld and '''capital''' of humanity is entering a new golden age. The resource wealth of a dozen settled colonies and a hundred industrial outposts flows back to Earth, fueling great works of industry, commerce, and art. The great cities are greening as arcology skyscrapers and telecommuting allow more efficient use of land."
Source- http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Earth

I don't know if anybody's pointed that out or if thats even relevant to this argument, but there it is...

Edit: I forgot to mention this argument is kind of irrelevent anyway simply because the game hasnt come out yet. so plotholes can't be proven/debunked rightfully.
... also, I think trieing Shepard as an AWOL Marine would be overuled as a Double-Jeapordy... Shepard was dead, and had been declared so.

Modifié par Stukovkh, 17 avril 2011 - 09:20 .

[Stormy-B]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
1. They gave Saren a word the first time.

2. How can Hackett know it in advance, that they'll strip him?

1. Do you mean the first hearing where a eyewitness to Nihlus murder was casually dismissed? I wouldn't call that a heads-up, more like the council reassuring Saren that he had nothing to worry about. Once some "real" evidence was brought forward there was no warning, just a decision, and Saren was no longer a Spectre.

2. Because of crap writing that's why. The writer(s) apparently worked from the notion that Shep is not a Spectre anymore, like in any unimported ME2 game.
But to be a little less metagaming. There is also the fact that the Spectre status was for show only, I can't really see the Council thinking twice about throwing Shep to the wolves.
Besides, blowing up a mass relay, destroying an entire system and it's inhabitants? If they don't believe in the Reapers this will be seen as the single most atrocious crime ever committed. Hackett knows this, and there's probably not a doubt in his mind that Shepards spectre status is a thing of the past.

Stormy-B wrote...

The Alliance can always claim that Shepard never came back to them after being confirmed alive, and thus should not be tried as an Alliance Marine would be.

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Yes, he should, more than anything be tried as an Alliance Marine, AWOL.

I'm not saying s/he shouldn't. I'm saying that Shep is a scapegoat. The Alliance will probably wash their hands off everything with Shepards name on it to avoid war with the Batarians.

Zulu_DFA wrote...
1. And why not invite the representives to the place the Alliance made for inviting representatives, its capital space station in the Arcturus system?

2. How can Hackett know it in advance, that they'll invite them to Earth and not the Arcturus station?

1. Because this is a BIG political s*itstorm. The first human Spectre has gone and eradicated a whole freaking starsystem. Human representatives from everywhere would run over eachother to turn this into a witchhunt of a spectacle trying to minimize the damage towards human interests.

2. First of all, sh*tty writing.
Secondly. Hackett knows the political field better than Shepard, he probably realizes that others will want to move the trial to earth for above mentioned reasons but also because Shepard still has some support, which they'll want to take away. It might even be a move to protect the Alliance from political blowback.

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Surprising or not, it sucks, because "dramatic effect" making no sense = farce.

Which is exactly what it will be. The chance of it being a fair trial, the way that I see it, is minimal. The whole thing would be about minimizing political blowback to human interests and avoiding war with the Batarians.

[Moiaussi]

Stormy-B wrote...

There is also the fact that the Spectre status was for show only, I can't really see the Council thinking twice about throwing Shep to the wolves.

"They aren't going to help you" isn't the same as "you no longer actually have the power and authority you previously had." They also order him to not just go but to stay in the area they just two years ago insisted that the mere prescence of a spectre could start a war.

Not to mention his status was never officially revoked. C-sec assumed his being dead per the database was just a clerical error and weren't shocked at his being there alive at all.

[TomY90]

too be honest we should not complain considering we have been asking since ME1 to be able to go to earth and it makes sense considering it will be an alliance court shepherd will be facing and the reapers will be attacking so it is likely a level involves getting off earth before the reapers truly get their

[HTTP 404]

im sure there are explanations. The volatile relationship between human and batarians is coming to a head. One reason it could be at Earth is that the asteroid used to destroy the Relay could be Earth funded project and the second reason is that if Earth prosecutes Shepard to the full extent of their law that would show the Batarians that humans condone this action this other human did.

There is much more politics involved to make this an ordinary case. High profile criminal cases are sometimes moved out of their jurisdiction to remove bias. I am certain it is far easier to remove bias by not taking Shepard to the Citadel for trial and the Council may want to wash their hands clean of a previously funded Cerberus agent with a former SPECTRE status.

I just wanted to add for every reason that "this doesn't make sense!" bioware can create feasible reasons where it can. Im kind of amazed some times by the overanalyzing of this game by others where I thought I look to deep into things.

Modifié par HTTP 404, 18 avril 2011 - 05:43 .

[Raphael diSanto]

Shepard is human first, and an Alliance soldier second. The trial's gonna be on earth. It's a political thing.

[ExtremeOne]

HTTP 404 wrote...

im sure there are explanations. The volatile relationship between human and batarians is coming to a head. One reason it could be at Earth is that the asteroid used to destroy the Relay could be Earth funded project and the second reason is that if Earth prosecutes Shepard to the full extent of their law that would show the Batarians that humans condone this action this other human did.

There is much more politics involved to make this an ordinary case. High profile criminal cases are sometimes moved out of their jurisdiction to remove bias. I am certain it is far easier to remove bias by not taking Shepard to the Citadel for trial and the Council may want to wash their hands clean of a previously funded Cerberus agent with a former SPECTRE status.

I just wanted to add for every reason that "this doesn't make sense!" bioware can create feasible reasons where it can. Im kind of amazed some times by the overanalyzing of this game by others where I thought I look to deep into things.

   


It does not make any sense at all . Its just a stupid way of saying oh we do not want no war with the Batarins so the only way to that is to have a fake ass trail.  

[HTTP 404]

ExtremeOne wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...

im sure there are explanations. The volatile relationship between human and batarians is coming to a head. One reason it could be at Earth is that the asteroid used to destroy the Relay could be Earth funded project and the second reason is that if Earth prosecutes Shepard to the full extent of their law that would show the Batarians that humans condone this action this other human did.

There is much more politics involved to make this an ordinary case. High profile criminal cases are sometimes moved out of their jurisdiction to remove bias. I am certain it is far easier to remove bias by not taking Shepard to the Citadel for trial and the Council may want to wash their hands clean of a previously funded Cerberus agent with a former SPECTRE status.

I just wanted to add for every reason that "this doesn't make sense!" bioware can create feasible reasons where it can. Im kind of amazed some times by the overanalyzing of this game by others where I thought I look to deep into things.

   


It does not make any sense at all . Its just a stupid way of saying oh we do not want no war with the Batarins so the only way to that is to have a fake ass trail.  

basically

[Zulu_DFA]

Stormy-B wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

1. They gave Saren a word the first time.

2. How can Hackett know it in advance, that they'll strip him?

1. Do you mean the first hearing where a eyewitness to Nihlus murder was casually dismissed? I wouldn't call that a heads-up, more like the council reassuring Saren that he had nothing to worry about. Once some "real" evidence was brought forward there was no warning, just a decision, and Saren was no longer a Spectre.

2. Because of crap writing that's why. The writer(s) apparently worked from the notion that Shep is not a Spectre anymore, like in any unimported ME2 game.
But to be a little less metagaming. There is also the fact that the Spectre status was for show only, I can't really see the Council thinking twice about throwing Shep to the wolves.
Besides, blowing up a mass relay, destroying an entire system and it's inhabitants? If they don't believe in the Reapers this will be seen as the single most atrocious crime ever committed. Hackett knows this, and there's probably not a doubt in his mind that Shepards spectre status is a thing of the past.

First of all, unless Hackett rats Shepard out for some reason, I can't think of what evidence there can be against Shepard.

Then, it's not the most atrocious crime in terms of loss of life. I doubt the Spectres hesitated to wipe out millions of Krogans at a time during the Rebellions, before the contact with the Rurians and the development of the Genophage Mk. I. And the Krogans were largely regarded as a saviors of the Galaxy at that time, as opposed to the Batarains, who were never anything but pain in the Council's arse. However, destruction of a relay and an entire star system as a result is definitaly a matter the Council should take a close look at, regardelss of the parties directly involved.

And for show or not, the spectre status is a spectre status, something the Alliance can't just handwave away like the BioWare writers seem to have done.

Stormy-B wrote...

Stormy-B wrote...

The Alliance can always claim that Shepard never came back to them after being confirmed alive, and thus should not be tried as an Alliance Marine would be.

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Yes, he should, more than anything be tried as an Alliance Marine, AWOL.

I'm not saying s/he shouldn't. I'm saying that Shep is a scapegoat. The Alliance will probably wash their hands off everything with Shepards name on it to avoid war with the Batarians.

And that's why the idea of admitting that the Humans did it is the one most stupides thing the Alliance can do.

Again, who had the Alliance been going to put on trial, before Shepard got involved in the affair? Oh, that's right, nobody! It was a covert operation with full deniability as a mission parameter.

Stormy-B wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote..
.
1. And why not invite the representatives to the place the Alliance made for inviting representatives, its capital space station in the Arcturus system?

2. How can Hackett know it in advance, that they'll invite them to Earth and not the Arcturus station?

1. Because this is a BIG political s*itstorm. The first human Spectre has gone and eradicated a whole freaking starsystem. Human representatives from everywhere would run over eachother to turn this into a witchhunt of a spectacle trying to minimize the damage towards human interests.

2. First of all, sh*tty writing.
Secondly. Hackett knows the political field better than Shepard, he probably realizes that others will want to move the trial to earth for above mentioned reasons but also because Shepard still has some support, which they'll want to take away. It might even be a move to protect the Alliance from political blowback.

Good thing you see the element of sh*tty writing here.

However, how can it not set itself in people's mind is beyond me: in the Mass Effect lore, the Arcturus Station is the place where the Human "representatives" assemble to meet each other and any alien "representatives" who have some bilateral business with the Humans. Earth has been left behind and has little to no political imporance. Maybe it's not something somebody likes too much or finds "cool", but short of a retcon, it can't be changed.

Stormy-B wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Surprising or not, it sucks, because "dramatic effect" making no sense = farce.

Which is exactly what it will be. The chance of it being a fair trial, the way that I see it, is minimal. The whole thing would be about minimizing political blowback to human interests and avoiding war with the Batarians.

I mean, not only the trial will be a farce, but the game itself, with the "mock trial" plot point rendered nonsensical within the universe, will be a farce, and not an "epic story".

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 19 avril 2011 - 10:27 .

[jbadm04]

Look like a lot of people have problems geting the picture, maybe a lack of imagination, or knowledge about people with different personalities. It seems the most persons here are of such kind: they do crap in the class and when the teachers asks "who was it" everyone keeps silent. Shepard is, as protrayed by the games, a person who stand behind own decisions. If the Alliance asks who destroyed the Batarian system, and they pretty sure know it was a humand, Shep is going to stand up and say "I did". (Paragon will explain why it was necessary and how trying to warn the Batarians didnt work out. Renegade will just say "it was necessary, f*** the Batarians, I did it for humanity"... or something like that).
So and what the problem with Earth? Earth is the capital of Humanity, Arcturus of the Alliance. Heckett says "when Earth calls you" and not "when the Alliance Command calls". Shepard is human after all. And btw, why should any court/office be in the capital? Germanys "capitol" is Berin, yet the highest court is in Karlsruhe, go figure.

[Zulu_DFA]

jbadm04 wrote...
Earth is the capital of Humanity, Arcturus of the Alliance.

"Humanity" is not a political institution. And the only single political institution of Humanity that has the kind of authiority needed to try Shepard is the Alliance. Unless Shepard is a spectre, in which case even the Alliance doesn't have such an authority.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 19 avril 2011 - 11:24 .

[ExtremeOne]

jbadm04 wrote...

Look like a lot of people have problems geting the picture, maybe a lack of imagination, or knowledge about people with different personalities. It seems the most persons here are of such kind: they do crap in the class and when the teachers asks "who was it" everyone keeps silent. Shepard is, as protrayed by the games, a person who stand behind own decisions. If the Alliance asks who destroyed the Batarian system, and they pretty sure know it was a humand, Shep is going to stand up and say "I did". (Paragon will explain why it was necessary and how trying to warn the Batarians didnt work out. Renegade will just say "it was necessary, f*** the Batarians, I did it for humanity"... or something like that).
So and what the problem with Earth? Earth is the capital of Humanity, Arcturus of the Alliance. Heckett says "when Earth calls you" and not "when the Alliance Command calls". Shepard is human after all. And btw, why should any court/office be in the capital? Germanys "capitol" is Berin, yet the highest court is in Karlsruhe, go figure.

 




yeah you dam right us renegades will say F**k it we did it for humanity. Its still a stupid idea Shepard is on trail. Shepard is being made the escape goat for the Alliance and its bull sh*t 

[ExtremeOne]

Arcian wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

yeah you dam right us renegades will say F**k it we did it for humanity. Its still a stupid idea Shepard is on trail. Shepard is being made the escape goat for the Alliance and its bull sh*t 

Good luck ruling the galaxy without a government, dog.

  



My Shepard is not out to rule the Galaxy  

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Arcian wrote...

Then why side with Cerberus? Ruling the galaxy is their ****ing goal.

No. It isn't.

[SalsaDMA]

Here's something I've been mulling about that makes it even more silly:

Batarians know they have a special relay in the Bahak system that is different than the usual relays, but keep quiet about it, so as not to alert the Alliance. It's a unique relay as far as anyone knows.

One day, A random freigther links up with a Batarian relay and plots a course for the Bahak system, and nothing happens...
Puzzled they will try again and still nothing will happen.
Then as time passes by, several reports will slowly trickle in to the batarians that trying to use relays to the Bahak system doesn't work anymore. It's as if the system isn't there anymore, or the relay just stopped responding. They aren't getting any ships from the Bahak system anymore either.

Now.. According to Hackett, and the Alliance appearantly, the first thought in this scenario for the batarians is appearantly: "Those evil humans blasted our system!!! We must go to WAR with them, despite being beat the crap out by them last time we tried".

Any sane event however, would have the Batarians conducting research into whether their unique and special relay did something by itself or were triggered to do something.

Given the timeline for when the Alliance KNOWS the reapers will be at the next relay, any investigations and research the batarians will conduct to base their actions on will be POINTLESS. Thus trying to put blame on anyone at any point in time is equally POINTLESS.

Even worse, their implied action of putting Shepard on trial, the only spectre that have succesfully dealth with reapers in the past, is directly harmfull to any preperations to the approaching reaper fleet they can do.

It takes a certain kind of brainfart to think things through and then suggest the outline of actions as they happen in Arrival as being 'logical'.

[ExtremeOne]

Arcian wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

Arcian wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

yeah you dam right us renegades will say F**k it we did it for humanity. Its still a stupid idea Shepard is on trail. Shepard is being made the escape goat for the Alliance and its bull sh*t 

Good luck ruling the galaxy without a government, dog.

  



My Shepard is not out to rule the Galaxy  

Then why side with Cerberus? Ruling the galaxy is their ****ing goal.

  


My Shepard is interested in making humanity stronger and if that means taking over the Galaxy to make it happen then he will do that. I side with Cerberus because they care about humanity and its goals as well in doing what ever it takes to stop the reapers 

[CroGamer002]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^




P.S.

Needs those damn sunglasses.

Modifié par Mesina2, 19 avril 2011 - 09:04 .

[SalsaDMA]

Arcian, that's a pretty shoddy excuse to indict anyone for.

Basicly you are saying: anyone within a solar system where a criminal act occurs could be prosecuted for the act.

Excuse me for saying such a suggestion is bollocks.

My shepard is a Spectre. His primary task is to ensure galactic stability. Following leads and interogate people withholding leads is under that jurisdiction.

If Shepard was on the trail of the human cell that had plans to blow up the system, do you really think the batarians would allow him/her to stroll in and interogate the prisoner? I really doubt it.

Given this, hte logic cause of action for a spectre that wanted to avert a disaster of the level we are talking about here, is to gain access to the prisoner, by any means necesary (which includes killing the guards that are trying to prevent him/her from seeing the prisoner) and secure the prisoner at a safe place to interogate.

Time ran out, though, and things blew up despite shepards efforts.

Which sounds more likely? The above, or that a Spectre on active duty to stabilize galactic peace actively blows up a system?

I know what my shepard SHOULD be telling about what happened if asked by anyone, and the reapers wouldn't figure in that retelling at all.

Unfortunately the writers aren't allowing us to actually decide for Shepard... In a ROLEPLAYING game nonetheless....

[Someone With Mass]

Spectres have no jurisdiction outside Council space. At all.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 19 avril 2011 - 09:11 .