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Shepard's Trial on Earth??? You must be kidding me... [with poll]

Débuté par Zulu_DFA , mars 31 2011 09:32

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#1501
Guest_Arcian_*
Posté 19 avril 2011 - 09:12

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SalsaDMA wrote...

Arcian, that's a pretty shoddy excuse to indict anyone for.

Maybe, but you'd be very naive to expect national leaders to play fair in the political game. Like I said, real nations have gone to war over much, much less.

And the Spectre-issue... you might know that I argue for the whole "Shepard is no longer a spectre due to Cerberus involvement", but there is literally no way to know for sure until we actually see this "trial" or "inquiry" or whatever they decide to call it. I'm excited to see if becoming a spectre has any bearing on the outcome, regardless of whether it's just honorary or actually a full reinstatement.

But like I said, we can't tell for now. We need some sources.

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Click the glasses in my sig. It links to the shoppable ones I use on a day-to-day basis.

Modifié par Arcian, 19 avril 2011 - 09:14 .

#1502
Zulu_DFA
Posté 19 avril 2011 - 09:15

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Someone With Mass wrote...

Spectres have no jurisdiction outside Council space. At all.

And the Alliance has no jurisdiction over the Spectres in the Council space.

#1503
ExtremeOne
Posté 19 avril 2011 - 09:24

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Zulu_DFA wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Spectres have no jurisdiction outside Council space. At all.

And the Alliance has no jurisdiction over the Spectres in the Council space.

  



It is all stupid so the Alliance is doing a fake ass trail to save them from war. but yet that piece of Alliance garbage hacket has no issue with Shepard killing the Batarians so something does not make any sense at all  

#1504
Someone With Mass
Posté 19 avril 2011 - 09:25

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Zulu_DFA wrote...
And the Alliance has no jurisdiction over the Spectres in the Council space.

At least Shepard has some sort of connection to the Alliance. Being a commander and all.

The batarians back in their territory can't give less of a **** about who Shepard is.

#1505
SalsaDMA
Posté 19 avril 2011 - 09:25

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Someone With Mass wrote...

Spectres have no jurisdiction outside Council space. At all.


Actually it's a vague area.

For example, At the time of the Krogan rebelion, the spectres were operating aplenty in krogan space, which couldn't be considered 'citadel space' given that they were openly at war with each other.


Also, if you note the description: "They answer only to the Council, and in some cases the Council prefers
not to know the exact details of how a Spectre accomplishes their
mission. Spectres act in any way they see fit, either with careful
diplomacy or ruthless force, being officially above any law." It's quite clear that the word 'jurisdiction' have no real usage for them. use of the term implies they follow rules, which they inherently are exempt from.

#1506
Someone With Mass
Posté 19 avril 2011 - 09:27

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ExtremeOne wrote...

It is all stupid so the Alliance is doing a fake ass trail to save them from war. but yet that piece of Alliance garbage hacket has no issue with Shepard killing the Batarians so something does not make any sense at all  


Yeah, how dare they pull strings to avoid a costly war that will probably take them a long time to recover from! They should take it like men!

In case you can't tell, I'm being very, very sarcastic.

#1507
Guest_Arcian_*
Posté 19 avril 2011 - 09:27

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Zulu_DFA wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Spectres have no jurisdiction outside Council space. At all.

And the Alliance has no jurisdiction over the Spectres in the Council space.

Right. But your argument is completely moot until we find out how the Council reacts to Shepard's little "incident" in the Bahak system. I mean, they had politic boners for Saren and could overlook his many misdeeds until Shepard brought them "irrefutable" evidence, while they have had much less faith in Shepard since he was prematurely named a Spectre and had no problem writing him off as a Spectre once already when he died (Y U NO stop arguing that he's still a spectre as a corpse. He was not, end of fadoodeling line).

TL;DR - The Council doesn't like your Shepard as much as they liked Saren, and until we actually hear their opinion on your mass-murdering rampage of doom and chaos and all things bad, we can't decide whether you can shield yourself with your much vaunted spectre card or not.

#1508
Guest_AwesomeName_*
Posté 19 avril 2011 - 09:42

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Don't the issues pertaining to jurisdiction surrounding Shep's Spectre status become rather immaterial when Shepard knows that her job will be a lot harder if she doesn't take part in the trial? I think Shep knows the difference between laws (words on paper) and something physically tangible, such as war breaking out with the batarians. And I think renegade or paragon Shep would certainly know that if she doesn't attend the trial on Earth, fighting the Reapers would be far more difficult if we're fighting each other at the same time.

#1509
CroGamer002
Posté 19 avril 2011 - 09:47

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Arcian wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

P.S.

Needs those damn sunglasses.

Click the glasses in my sig. It links to the shoppable ones I use on a day-to-day basis.


Image IPB

#1510
Zulu_DFA
Posté 19 avril 2011 - 09:57

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AwesomeName wrote...

Don't the issues pertaining to jurisdiction surrounding Shep's Spectre status become rather immaterial when Shepard knows that her job will be a lot harder if she doesn't take part in the trial? I think Shep knows the difference between laws (words on paper) and something physically tangible, such as war breaking out with the batarians. And I think renegade or paragon Shep would certainly know that if she doesn't attend the trial on Earth, fighting the Reapers would be far more difficult if we're fighting each other at the same time.

And the last thing the Alliance needs in this phantom war is the fury of the Council about the Alliance's overstepping its authority and disregarding Shepard's Spectre status.

As I said in the OP, and in the OP of my old "Escaped Convict" thread I'm not entirely against the Council passing the "honor" of the trial to the Alliance in any case, but that needs to be comprehensively addressed as to the reasons why the Council would do this. Hackett never even bothered mentioning it.

And in any case, the Alliance has no central institutions on Earth that we have been told so far in the series, so it needs a hell lot of explaining too: why the trial is being set up there. But this wasn't even so much as handwaved away by Hackett also.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 19 avril 2011 - 10:19 .

#1511
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Posté 19 avril 2011 - 10:08

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AwesomeName wrote...

Don't the issues pertaining to jurisdiction surrounding Shep's Spectre status become rather immaterial when Shepard knows that her job will be a lot harder if she doesn't take part in the trial? I think Shep knows the difference between laws (words on paper) and something physically tangible, such as war breaking out with the batarians. And I think renegade or paragon Shep would certainly know that if she doesn't attend the trial on Earth, fighting the Reapers would be far more difficult if we're fighting each other at the same time.


Okay, so I've made an assumption here that the trial being on Earth would appease the batarians more than having it elsewhere... but I have no idea really.   Does anyone even know what location would appease them the most?  I can only guess that it's because the batarians have a massive chip on their shoulder with humanity specifically, and so having it on Earth is a symbolic display to the batarians that humanity fully recognises the severity of the act committed in the Bahak system and that they are doing all the steps they can to get justice.

Modifié par AwesomeName, 19 avril 2011 - 10:09 .

#1512
Guest_Arcian_*
Posté 19 avril 2011 - 10:09

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Zulu_DFA wrote...

AwesomeName wrote...

Don't the issues pertaining to jurisdiction surrounding Shep's Spectre status become rather immaterial when Shepard knows that her job will be a lot harder if she doesn't take part in the trial? I think Shep knows the difference between laws (words on paper) and something physically tangible, such as war breaking out with the batarians. And I think renegade or paragon Shep would certainly know that if she doesn't attend the trial on Earth, fighting the Reapers would be far more difficult if we're fighting each other at the same time.

And the last thing the Alliance needs in this phantom war is the fury of the Council about the Alliance's overstepping its authority and disregarding Shepard's Spectre status.

Zulu... oh Zulu.

You can argue about this once we knows how the Council reacts to Shepard's mayhap in the Bahak system. You know, they haven't exactly had a history of backing you up.

Zulu_DFA wrote...

As I said in the OP, and in the OP of my old "Escaped Convict" thread I'm not entirely against the Alliance passing the "honor" of the trial to the Alliance in any case, but that needs to be comprehensively addressed as to the reasons why the Council would do this. Hackett never even bothered mentioning it.

Don't you mean, the Council passing the honor of the trial to the Alliance?

Zulu_DFA wrote...
And in any case, the Alliance has no central institutions on Earth that we have been told so far in the series, so it needs a hell lot of explaining too: why the trial is being set up there. But this wasn't even so much as handwaved away by Hackett also.

Did they have to explain everything that was said in Arrival? Hackett might not even have the details. You know, they might want to leave some details to ME3. That would at least give them the time to figure out how to explain it, if nothing else.

#1513
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Posté 19 avril 2011 - 10:28

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Zulu_DFA wrote...

As I said in the OP, and in the OP of my old "Escaped Convict" thread I'm not entirely against the Council passing the "honor" of the trial to the Alliance in any case, but that needs to be comprehensively addressed as to the reasons why the Council would do this. Hackett never even bothered mentioning it.


I imagine they would explain that at the start of ME3.  Even if they don't I would think the reason is simply that it would offer both the greatest amount of appeasement to the batarians and the greatest chance of avoiding a war with them.

#1514
1136342t54_
Posté 19 avril 2011 - 10:39

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ExtremeOne wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Spectres have no jurisdiction outside Council space. At all.

And the Alliance has no jurisdiction over the Spectres in the Council space.

  



It is all stupid so the Alliance is doing a fake ass trail to save them from war. but yet that piece of Alliance garbage hacket has no issue with Shepard killing the Batarians so something does not make any sense at all  

I'm going to try and explain the reasons why shepard is tried and why its on Earth.

First If Shepard is a Spectre during the events of Mass Effect 2 remember what the Council wanted Shepard to do. Keep a low profile and stay out of Citadel space so that nothing you do can connect it to the Citadel. Now Shepard succeded at the first part but not the second. Shepard destroyed a Mass Relay. Mass Relays cannot be built at this stage in their technology. Its mentioned the Asari can do it but they wouldn't. So destroying a strategic resource like a Relay would be something a Spectre could do if it stops a Intergalactic war and no one really believes that the Reapers are real.

Not only did Shepard destroy a relay he wiped out an entire solar system on the possibility a myth will destroy all organic life and he killed 300,000 batarians in the process. Now not only is the alliance is facing a war but since Shepard is a Spectre the Council may have to go to war with the Batarians. So the best way to stop a war between the Citadel and Terminus systems is to put the blame on the Alliance who in turn will put the blame on Shepard. All the Council has to do is revoke his spectre status and let the Alliance put shepard on trial.

 Now why the trial isn't on Arcturus would likely be because Arcturus is the political and military capital instead of a true homeworld with a actual judicial system. I doubt they truly have military courts on Arcturus. Plus since Arcturus station is in space and Shepard likely still have plenty of allies Shepard could escape pretty easily. Earth is symbolically and the safest place for Shepard's trial to be held. 
 

#1515
Guest_Arcian_*
Posté 19 avril 2011 - 10:56

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1136342t54 wrote...

 Now why the trial isn't on Arcturus would likely be because Arcturus is the political and military capital instead of a true homeworld with a actual judicial system. I doubt they truly have military courts on Arcturus. Plus since Arcturus station is in space and Shepard likely still have plenty of allies Shepard could escape pretty easily. Earth is symbolically and the safest place for Shepard's trial to be held. 
 

Expect Zulu to swoop down like an angry hawk from hell and tear this theory apart. Just a fair warning, from one fellow forumite to another.

#1516
ExtremeOne
Posté 19 avril 2011 - 11:14

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1136342t54 wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Spectres have no jurisdiction outside Council space. At all.

And the Alliance has no jurisdiction over the Spectres in the Council space.

  



It is all stupid so the Alliance is doing a fake ass trail to save them from war. but yet that piece of Alliance garbage hacket has no issue with Shepard killing the Batarians so something does not make any sense at all  

I'm going to try and explain the reasons why shepard is tried and why its on Earth.

First If Shepard is a Spectre during the events of Mass Effect 2 remember what the Council wanted Shepard to do. Keep a low profile and stay out of Citadel space so that nothing you do can connect it to the Citadel. Now Shepard succeded at the first part but not the second. Shepard destroyed a Mass Relay. Mass Relays cannot be built at this stage in their technology. Its mentioned the Asari can do it but they wouldn't. So destroying a strategic resource like a Relay would be something a Spectre could do if it stops a Intergalactic war and no one really believes that the Reapers are real.

Not only did Shepard destroy a relay he wiped out an entire solar system on the possibility a myth will destroy all organic life and he killed 300,000 batarians in the process. Now not only is the alliance is facing a war but since Shepard is a Spectre the Council may have to go to war with the Batarians. So the best way to stop a war between the Citadel and Terminus systems is to put the blame on the Alliance who in turn will put the blame on Shepard. All the Council has to do is revoke his spectre status and let the Alliance put shepard on trial.

 Now why the trial isn't on Arcturus would likely be because Arcturus is the political and military capital instead of a true homeworld with a actual judicial system. I doubt they truly have military courts on Arcturus. Plus since Arcturus station is in space and Shepard likely still have plenty of allies Shepard could escape pretty easily. Earth is symbolically and the safest place for Shepard's trial to be held. 
 




  






what crimes did Shepard do explain to me that. If Shepard is out to save the galaxy then in a galactic war their will be losses and there will be death. I am sorry but the idea that one man can save everyone is a myth. The Alliance once again proves it has no interest in Shepard. They care too much about not pissing the Batarians off . The trail is a joke. I think Bioware has missed the f**king point about war and what war includes when it comes to ME 3. Just like what Q said in Star Trek NG If you can't accept a little bloody nose then go back home. The Alliance can not accept that War has its price and that price is blood and death.  

#1517
Guest_michaelrsa_*
Posté 19 avril 2011 - 11:25

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Just want to point something out here Arcian.

The Council likes Shepard far more than they put on.

Shepard returns from the dead with no explanation, working with an organization they consider terrorists and they give him back his Spectre status?

That's pretty forgiving in my books. They might not believe Shepard about the Reapers but they still have enough respect for him that they overlook everything else.

#1518
KingDan97
Posté 20 avril 2011 - 12:05

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ExtremeOne wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Spectres have no jurisdiction outside Council space. At all.

And the Alliance has no jurisdiction over the Spectres in the Council space.

  



It is all stupid so the Alliance is doing a fake ass trail to save them from war. but yet that piece of Alliance garbage hacket has no issue with Shepard killing the Batarians so something does not make any sense at all  

I'm going to try and explain the reasons why shepard is tried and why its on Earth.

First If Shepard is a Spectre during the events of Mass Effect 2 remember what the Council wanted Shepard to do. Keep a low profile and stay out of Citadel space so that nothing you do can connect it to the Citadel. Now Shepard succeded at the first part but not the second. Shepard destroyed a Mass Relay. Mass Relays cannot be built at this stage in their technology. Its mentioned the Asari can do it but they wouldn't. So destroying a strategic resource like a Relay would be something a Spectre could do if it stops a Intergalactic war and no one really believes that the Reapers are real.

Not only did Shepard destroy a relay he wiped out an entire solar system on the possibility a myth will destroy all organic life and he killed 300,000 batarians in the process. Now not only is the alliance is facing a war but since Shepard is a Spectre the Council may have to go to war with the Batarians. So the best way to stop a war between the Citadel and Terminus systems is to put the blame on the Alliance who in turn will put the blame on Shepard. All the Council has to do is revoke his spectre status and let the Alliance put shepard on trial.

 Now why the trial isn't on Arcturus would likely be because Arcturus is the political and military capital instead of a true homeworld with a actual judicial system. I doubt they truly have military courts on Arcturus. Plus since Arcturus station is in space and Shepard likely still have plenty of allies Shepard could escape pretty easily. Earth is symbolically and the safest place for Shepard's trial to be held. 
 




  






what crimes did Shepard do explain to me that. If Shepard is out to save the galaxy then in a galactic war their will be losses and there will be death. I am sorry but the idea that one man can save everyone is a myth. The Alliance once again proves it has no interest in Shepard. They care too much about not pissing the Batarians off . The trail is a joke. I think Bioware has missed the f**king point about war and what war includes when it comes to ME 3. Just like what Q said in Star Trek NG If you can't accept a little bloody nose then go back home. The Alliance can not accept that War has its price and that price is blood and death.  

The Council have not had any hard evidence presented to them of the reapers existence. Delusion isn't justification for murder, his status as a human makes it seem much more likely that it was racism that led him to destroy them not some as of yet unproven threat. Even if the council does believe Shepard, against all odds, the Batarians wouldn't. They have no proof of the reapers existence whatsoever and would see this as another unprovoked human attack on their people, the council distancing themselves keeps it that way.

#1519
ExtremeOne
Posté 20 avril 2011 - 01:26

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KingDan97 wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Spectres have no jurisdiction outside Council space. At all.

And the Alliance has no jurisdiction over the Spectres in the Council space.

  



It is all stupid so the Alliance is doing a fake ass trail to save them from war. but yet that piece of Alliance garbage hacket has no issue with Shepard killing the Batarians so something does not make any sense at all  

I'm going to try and explain the reasons why shepard is tried and why its on Earth.

First If Shepard is a Spectre during the events of Mass Effect 2 remember what the Council wanted Shepard to do. Keep a low profile and stay out of Citadel space so that nothing you do can connect it to the Citadel. Now Shepard succeded at the first part but not the second. Shepard destroyed a Mass Relay. Mass Relays cannot be built at this stage in their technology. Its mentioned the Asari can do it but they wouldn't. So destroying a strategic resource like a Relay would be something a Spectre could do if it stops a Intergalactic war and no one really believes that the Reapers are real.

Not only did Shepard destroy a relay he wiped out an entire solar system on the possibility a myth will destroy all organic life and he killed 300,000 batarians in the process. Now not only is the alliance is facing a war but since Shepard is a Spectre the Council may have to go to war with the Batarians. So the best way to stop a war between the Citadel and Terminus systems is to put the blame on the Alliance who in turn will put the blame on Shepard. All the Council has to do is revoke his spectre status and let the Alliance put shepard on trial.

 Now why the trial isn't on Arcturus would likely be because Arcturus is the political and military capital instead of a true homeworld with a actual judicial system. I doubt they truly have military courts on Arcturus. Plus since Arcturus station is in space and Shepard likely still have plenty of allies Shepard could escape pretty easily. Earth is symbolically and the safest place for Shepard's trial to be held. 
 




  






what crimes did Shepard do explain to me that. If Shepard is out to save the galaxy then in a galactic war their will be losses and there will be death. I am sorry but the idea that one man can save everyone is a myth. The Alliance once again proves it has no interest in Shepard. They care too much about not pissing the Batarians off . The trail is a joke. I think Bioware has missed the f**king point about war and what war includes when it comes to ME 3. Just like what Q said in Star Trek NG If you can't accept a little bloody nose then go back home. The Alliance can not accept that War has its price and that price is blood and death.  

The Council have not had any hard evidence presented to them of the reapers existence. Delusion isn't justification for murder, his status as a human makes it seem much more likely that it was racism that led him to destroy them not some as of yet unproven threat. Even if the council does believe Shepard, against all odds, the Batarians wouldn't. They have no proof of the reapers existence whatsoever and would see this as another unprovoked human attack on their people, the council distancing themselves keeps it that way.

  




Then by that theory The Alliance is nothing but lap dogs of the council. Oh I am sorry Shepard is suppose to be ths alien loving guy who just happens to murder people who point guns at him and save the galaxy but he should never think about humanity and its survival . I do not buy that idea I mean My Shepard will do what ever it takes to save the Geth and and the krogans. but that is only because they have been mistreated by the galaxy. The Batarians do not give a dam about us humans so why should Shepard care about them. 

#1520
Guest_Arcian_*
Posté 20 avril 2011 - 10:03

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michaelrsa wrote...

Just want to point something out here Arcian.

The Council likes Shepard far more than they put on.

Shepard returns from the dead with no explanation, working with an organization they consider terrorists and they give him back his Spectre status?

That's pretty forgiving in my books. They might not believe Shepard about the Reapers but they still have enough respect for him that they overlook everything else.

That's because he saved their asses and they feel that they are at least obliged to give him back his Spectre status. They basically say, "Keep a low profile, don't do anything stupid, get your mission done and end your relationship with Cerberus when it's over and we're ok."

That would have worked out brilliantly had Shepard not gone and blown up a star system. That's not exactly low profile. Even worse, its batarians, with whom the Citadel no longer has any diplomatic relations.

And if Shepard sacrificed the original council, he doesn't even get his Spectre status back at all, making Zulu's Spectre-angle completely pointless for hardcore renegades.

But of course, all this is really moot unless BioWare decides to release a video of the inevitable meeting between the Council and Shepard in ME3.

#1521
CroGamer002
Posté 20 avril 2011 - 10:23

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^You can get Spectre status back if Council died but only if Anderson is Councilor.

Modifié par Mesina2, 20 avril 2011 - 10:23 .

#1522
Guest_Arcian_*
Posté 20 avril 2011 - 05:11

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Mesina2 wrote...

^You can get Spectre status back if Council died but only if Anderson is Councilor.

Ah, I did not know that. Snazzy.

#1523
CroGamer002
Posté 20 avril 2011 - 05:18

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Arcian wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

^You can get Spectre status back if Council died but only if Anderson is Councilor.

Ah, I did not know that. Snazzy.


Then again ZULU thinks Anderson is a traitor so I guess he choose Udina.
So yeah...

#1524
Guest_Arcian_*
Posté 20 avril 2011 - 05:29

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Mesina2 wrote...

Arcian wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

^You can get Spectre status back if Council died but only if Anderson is Councilor.

Ah, I did not know that. Snazzy.


Then again ZULU thinks Anderson is a traitor so I guess he choose Udina.
So yeah...

COMPETENCE:
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#1525
SalsaDMA
Posté 21 avril 2011 - 01:21

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I find it funny people are talking about a need of evidence about reapers, yet are quick to dismiss such a need to even be able to indict shepard for anything
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