1529 réponses à ce sujet

[InHarmsWay]

Suprez30 wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

I think you're making too much of things, Zulu.

Where a trial takes place is absolutely irrelevant. Not every act of say, treason against your country must be tried in its capital. Earth is the economic centre of the Alliance and contributes most of the Alliance's military resources, so a trial on Earth is perfectly within the realm of the reasonable. Even more so a trial conducted mostly for its symbolic value.

Shepherd's 'treason' was not against Earth but against the Council, and I'm not sure if they have any right to accuse him of such an offence.

He still represent humanity has the first human specter and was trained by the alliance before becoming one.
His first ship was also given to him by  the aliance/Turian and has still strong bond with Hackett and the aliance.

Shepard worked for Cerberus and killed 300,000 Civilian .. Sure they were batarian .. What if they were American?
I though it's was completly out of character because my Shepard would never have done something like this.

If he don't go to a trial .. That will provoke a war with the batarian .At some point you also need to take responsability for you act.

What other choice was there? The Reapers were going to be there within minutes. Once they arrived they would have killed that entire Batarian colony. Mayeb if Kenson didn't go Indorcinated servant you might have had a chance to warn the colony that a meteor was heading for the relay, but you didn't have that luxury. You had to stop the Reapers from using the Alpha Relay or trillions of lives would have been lost. I'm a hardcore paragon but even I realuize this. There was absolutely no other option. And Shepard didn't do this with a smile on his/her face. You see their body language state that they really don't want to do this, but it must be done.

[xzxzxz701]

knaus86 wrote...

if an american commits a crime in another country. they dont get shipped back to america for trial.
they get tried by the people they wronged.

im pretty sure the batarians and humans dont have some prisoner transfer deal going on.

there is no reason the trial would be on earth. it would either be somewhere independent like the citadel. or in batarian space

Well the Milky Way is not America, is it?

[charmingcharlie]

knaus86 wrote...

if an american commits a crime in another country. they dont get shipped back to america for trial.
they get tried by the people they wronged.

im pretty sure the batarians and humans dont have some prisoner transfer deal going on.

there is no reason the trial would be on earth. it would either be somewhere independent like the citadel. or in batarian space

That is only if the country where the crime was committed actually captures the culprit.  If the American makes it back to America then the country where the crime was committed has to apply for the culprit to be extradited (assuming there is an extradition treaty).  This extradition request would result in a court hearing in America to investigate whether the accused should face trial in the country the crime was committed in.

Now killing 300,000 sentient beings is not your every day crime.  Doing something that extreme is going to have consequences no matter what the "good intentions" are behind it.  So even if there is no extradition treaty with the Batarians it is fool hardy to think Earth can get away with "hey Shep didn't do it to us so suck it up 4 eyes".

[KenKenpachi]

xzxzxz701 wrote...

knaus86 wrote...

if an american commits a crime in another country. they dont get shipped back to america for trial.
they get tried by the people they wronged.

im pretty sure the batarians and humans dont have some prisoner transfer deal going on.

there is no reason the trial would be on earth. it would either be somewhere independent like the citadel. or in batarian space

Well the Milky Way is not America, is it?

Well in the Modern world you do have a pesky little thing called extradition treaties as well.

[InHarmsWay]

KenKenpachi wrote...

xzxzxz701 wrote...

knaus86 wrote...

if an american commits a crime in another country. they dont get shipped back to america for trial.
they get tried by the people they wronged.

im pretty sure the batarians and humans dont have some prisoner transfer deal going on.

there is no reason the trial would be on earth. it would either be somewhere independent like the citadel. or in batarian space

Well the Milky Way is not America, is it?

Well in the Modern world you do have a pesky little thing called extradition treaties as well.

Considering that the Hegemony is a rogue state, that would be no on a extradition treaty. Since the Alliance wouldn't be able to demand that the Hegemony hand over all of their slavers over so they can be tried in Alliance court.

Modifié par InHarmsWay, 31 mars 2011 - 10:43 .

[ODST 3]

The idea of him being tried when the Reapers have just arrived is plain retarded. The courts won't even exist to try him. Stupid ass plot point and boring DLC. Do Not Buy It! Wish I could get a refund for mine.

[KotOREffecT]

Shepard in general will probably be on some kind of trial anyway if not an Aliance trial for the actions of ME2(Giving Collectors base to TIM, Spectre status, Cerberus relations) So Shep will probably be at some kind of trial, meeting, gathering or whatever because he or she has alot to answer for come ME3..

Also it will probably lead up to the Reaper invasion, or like some kind of 2 weeks before they arrive kind of thing when Shep gets tried. Infact the trial could be happening right as they invade and then ME 3 kicks off.

[shep82]

KotOREffecT wrote...

Shepard in general will probably be on some kind of trial anyway if not an Aliance trial for the actions of ME2(Giving Collectors base to TIM, Spectre status, Cerberus relations) So Shep will probably be at some kind of trial, meeting, gathering or whatever because he or she has alot to answer for come ME3..

Also it will probably lead up to the Reaper invasion, or like some kind of 2 weeks before they arrive kind of thing when Shep gets tried. Infact the trial could be happening right as they invade and then ME 3 kicks off.

That would actually be a sweet opeing "We the jury find you....." *the reapers arrive* ""Oh crap nevermind save us!":P

[Marta Rio]

ODST 3 wrote...

The idea of him being tried when the Reapers have just arrived is plain retarded. The courts won't even exist to try him. Stupid ass plot point and boring DLC. Do Not Buy It! Wish I could get a refund for mine.

Meet me at the warehouse on Zakera ward and I'd be happy to give you a refund.  Make sure you bring the service order with you.

[blindchaos]

I have a quick question, Isn't Udina the confirmed Human representative for the Council? If he is isn't that an easy excuse to remove Shep's Specter status? Udina has always thought of the Alliance's best interests over others, and has a clear dislike for Sheppard. If i remember correctly he also does not believe in the Reaper threat, so from his perspective there is no downside to pressing for Sheppard to stand trial.

[Zulu_DFA]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

eye basher wrote...

Shepards specter status is just a title anderson said it himself the council wont help shepard in any way.Shepard is person non gratta as for getting tried the batarians are gonna want blood the only thing the council has to say is that shepard is insane,a rouge specter like saren and that he/she is working for a known terrorist organization cerberus.

And yet it makes the most sense for the Udina-led Council to try Shepard on the Citadel, under the Council's own authority, to send everybody the message that the New Council doesn't play favorites.

And it makes just as much sense to try him on Earth, to show Earth is "owning" the problem and dealing with it.  This way humanity is, as a Council race, "solving their own problems" as every Council race is obliged to do, and the rest of the Council doesn't get "dragged into it".

Just for your information:

The Earth is just a piece of molten iron covered with rock and a little H2O. It can't own any problems.

As for the Mankind, as soon as it lefts its "craddle", it'll spread its domain to any such piece of rock it manages to claim, establishing new cultural, economical and political realities that you guys seem to be incapable of grasping, but which any real sci-fi is supposed to be all about. Therefore, it's simply a matter of difference between the good sci-fi, and a cheap moneygrab product.

The Humanity, as a Council race, is supposed to solve its problems via established institutions such as the Council and the Systems Alliance, and not by "going to Earth".

LoL, I like the Legion reference, but we both know that Legion is clueless to symbolism.  Earth is clearly a symbol for humanity.

As a proud Human-supremacist, Cerberus loyalist, and Terra Firma supporter, I tend to disagree. Terra is surely our beloved "craddle", but there is a stronger symbol of Humanity now, and it's Shanxi. The planet where Humanity first had to fight for its place in this Galaxy against a ruthless and vile alien foe, and won.

Almostfaceman wrote...

So, if humanity is supposed to solve its problems via established institutions such as the Council - why does the Council repeatedly tell humanity both before and after they have a seat on the Council that humanity has to "solve it's own problems".   One example is a news cast on heard on the citadel:

After the mission on Horizon and if the Council was saved, there is a story about the human representative requesting an official investigation of the attack on Horizon. However, the request is rejected by a 3-1 vote in session with the Council maintaining that the matter is an internal Alliance issue. Councilor Valern will mention that having a seat on the Council implies a species can handle its own problems and assist others with theirs. If Anderson is the human representative, he will agree but request increased access to the Council's space tracking network

So, the ARCTURUS STATION.

Or, if Councillor Velarn is dead, and the Humans call the major shots, the CITADEL. Can't wait for Din Corlack's passionate accusatory speech.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 01 avril 2011 - 12:51 .

[Zulu_DFA]

jamesp81 wrote...

If Earth is destroyed, humanity is finished as a galactic power.  Done, over, dead, gone.  Bekenstein (the planet you visit in Kasumi's LM) is described as being one of humanity's most populous colonies.  It's population is 5.4 million or so.  You waste Earth, you kill about 98% of the human race.

That's a completely lametacular storyline.

Not true.

The numbers are irrelevant. For example, the Geth are just automated machinery with not a single living operator, and still are quite powerful.

With the Earth purged, the Alliance will come out only stronger, if the major Human colonies and indusrtrial/mining outposts are left unscathed.

[Almostfaceman]

ODST 3 wrote...

The idea of him being tried when the Reapers have just arrived is plain retarded. The courts won't even exist to try him. Stupid ass plot point and boring DLC. Do Not Buy It! Wish I could get a refund for mine.

Do you plan to blather on about how we should all not buy ME3 and Arrival?  I suggest you find another game and play it - would make more sense, be more fun, and you'd come off as less of a grumpy mcgrump who wants to spread his mcgrump allll over the world.  We get it.  You didn't like Arrival.  We get it, you think ME3 is going to suck.  Find a hobby.

[Zulu_DFA]

Aelia wrote...
I haven't followed ME3 developement obsessively, so I could easily have missed something.  Do you have a source for the contention that the "Reapers were going to start with Earth..."

I just rewatched the trailer and I didn't see any indication of that... In fact, the soldiers statement that if Shepard doesn't bring help soon... could easily support your early speculation that the trial is interrupted by the invasion.  Suddenly Shepard's argument "I did it because of the reapers" carries weight and the political powers start screaming "save us, save us" so they turn him lose.  The soldier knows that Shepards rallying help because the trial was public or some such...
Anyway... if you have other indications besides the trailer, could you point me in the right direction?

Thanx,
-A

http://www.bioware.com/:

Mass Effect 3. Earth is burning. Preorder now.

[Aelia]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Aelia wrote...
I haven't followed ME3 developement obsessively, so I could easily have missed something.  Do you have a source for the contention that the "Reapers were going to start with Earth..."

I just rewatched the trailer and I didn't see any indication of that... In fact, the soldiers statement that if Shepard doesn't bring help soon... could easily support your early speculation that the trial is interrupted by the invasion.  Suddenly Shepard's argument "I did it because of the reapers" carries weight and the political powers start screaming "save us, save us" so they turn him lose.  The soldier knows that Shepards rallying help because the trial was public or some such...
Anyway... if you have other indications besides the trailer, could you point me in the right direction?

Thanx,
-A

http://www.bioware.com/:

Mass Effect 3. Earth is burning. Preorder now.

I wouldn't call that conclusive... but, it is definitely suggestive... thanx for the reference!
-A

[Kaiser Shepard]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

If Shepard isn't a spectre anymore, and/or the Citadel Council wants to toss the problem to its source (aka the Systems Alliance) even if he is, the trial must take place at the ARCTURUS STATION, which is the political center and military headquarters of the Systems Alliance.

As to the imprisonment, there is no way such a high-profile and dangerous convict can be held on a populated planet.

That is all.

Earth is more secure from foreign threats than Arcurus, it basically lying a Relay beyond Arcturus. I can see a batarian group trying to (still futilely) attack Arcturus; I can't say the same for Earth.

Not that security matters that much, though; what with the Reapers probably attacking Earth in the intro and Arcturus already being long gone by then.

[Zulu_DFA]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

If Shepard isn't a spectre anymore, and/or the Citadel Council wants to toss the problem to its source (aka the Systems Alliance) even if he is, the trial must take place at the ARCTURUS STATION, which is the political center and military headquarters of the Systems Alliance.

As to the imprisonment, there is no way such a high-profile and dangerous convict can be held on a populated planet.

That is all.

Earth is more secure from foreign threats than Arcurus, it basically lying a Relay beyond Arcturus. I can see a batarian group trying to (still futilely) attack Arcturus; I can't say the same for Earth.

Not that security matters that much, though; what with the Reapers probably attacking Earth in the intro and Arcturus already being long gone by then.

Incorrect. Earth recieves a lot more incoming civilian traffic, than Arcturus, where you have nothing to do unless it's some kind of official business. If I were a Batarian terrorist, I'd think staging an action on Earth should be much easier.

Also, Earth presents more opportunity for escape attempts.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 01 avril 2011 - 02:00 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Anyway, the poll:

http://social.biowar...50/polls/17804/

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 01 avril 2011 - 01:52 .

[cactusberry]

I haven't read the entire thread, and am pretty new to Mass Effect after only recently finishing Mass Effect 2 and Arrival, but only just now playing Mass Effect. I only knew a bit about the first Mass Effect prior to playing Mass Effect 2. It's to my understanding that Shepard's spectre status was revoked after Shepard's death? (In question to the first few responses to this thread.)

[InHarmsWay]

TheDarkRats wrote...

I haven't read the entire thread, and am pretty new to Mass Effect after only recently finishing Mass Effect 2 and Arrival, but only just now playing Mass Effect. I only knew a bit about the first Mass Effect prior to playing Mass Effect 2. It's to my understanding that Shepard's spectre status was revoked after Shepard's death? (In question to the first few responses to this thread.)

Shepard's Spectre status was indeed revoked after death, but it can be reinstated in ME2 if:

-if all-human Council or new alien Councilors, but Anderson is the human Councilor
-original Council was saved, and either Anderson or Udina can be human reprsentative


For the first, if Udina is Councilor, you will not have your Spectre status reinstated.

[Thompson family]

Zulu_DFA wrote...


THERE IS NO REASON FOR SHEPARD TO BE TRIED AND/OR IMPRISONED ON EARTH!!!!

In many cases Shepard is still a spectre, which means his arse belongs to the Citadel Council. And I suppose the crimes against the "galactic community" (or whatever they call it) must be tried at the center of the said community, which is the CITADEL.

If Shepard isn't a spectre anymore, and/or the Citadel Council wants to toss the problem to its source (aka the Systems Alliance) even if he is, the trial must take place at the ARCTURUS STATION, which is the political center and military headquarters of the Systems Alliance. (etc.)

Well, Zulu, I don't have any intergalactic law degrees haning on my office walls, but I'll take a stab at it.

As we all know, Saren committed the much lesser atrocity of attacking Eden Prime. I believe it was lesser. It didn't kill 300,000 people, I don't believe. It certainy didn't destroy a whole system using a Mass Relay as a demolition charge.

As we recall, the Council stripped Saren of his Spectre status. Presumably, they sent out polite word for him to take himself in. He seems to have declined any such invitation.

Here's the key point. Saren committed a heinous crime in Council Space against a Council Space entity: The Alliance humans. Shepard did not.  The Council has no authority in the Terminus system, much less in batarian space. Unless there's some "crimes agains intelligent races" provision in Council law, this "case" is strictly between the Alliance and the Batarian Hegemony. The Hegemony is a rogue state as far as the Council is concerned.

The Alliance may be a Council Space entity and are even a Council member, but the Council certainly had nothing to do with the decision to blow up an entire system with 300,000 batarians in it, even though it was a Spectre who did it -- without their knowlege and certainly without Council authorization.

So Shep -- unlike Saren -- seems willing to turn himself in (Paragon, anyway. Somebody will have to clue me in on Renegade Shep's reaction.)

In layman's terms, the Alliance may very well need a scapegoat to avoid a war with the Batarians and Shep is volunteering. While there's a definite messianic theme to this game, that Shep's the "one" who can save intelligent life in the galaxy, I don't think Shep views him/herself as irreplacable and is therefore willing to make the "ultimate sacrifice" if that would help stop the Reapers. My Shep and Hackett had a very candid discussion about how neither the Batarians nor the Humans need a war with each other at the cusp of a Reaper invasion.

I believe Hackett to be sincere in the belief that the Reaper threat is real. I'm glad Cerberus Daily News threw in that little tidbit about the shocking reversal of the Alliance's position on the Turians building dreadnoughts, for example.

As for the trial being on Earth, I have no heartburn over that because I'm sure that while the station may be very important, the seat of the alliance government is surely on Earth.

[GreenDragon37]

I don't really care. Honestly, it seems like this is a fus over nothing. Earth, Citadel, Arcturus... it doesn't matter. People will complain about anything and everything, though.

[IBPROFEN]

DarkSeraphym wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

I think the trial is to take place on Earth because it's an Alliance issue. That doctor and Hackett are both Alliance/Humans.

And exactly because it's an Alliance issue, it is to be resolved on the Arcturus Station, where tghe Alliance Parliament and the Navy HQ sit.

The only reason I can see for it to take place on Earth is BioWare's friggnin' listening to the fans, and retconning the lore for the sake of cooling and amping things up.

Crap, that's gonna be another good idea totally screwed over in execution!

That or it is on Earth because they intend to have either the trial or the actual imprisonment interrupted when the Reapers show up. God I hope not as it would end up being a missed opportunity, but I'm willing to bet $10 that is why they have it taking place on Earth.

 Well i'm with Zulu on this it should be on Arcturcus Station, beside WE already know that Shepard isn't on Earth when Reaper show up, because "Big Ben Sniper" is hoping Shepard will make it their in time.

[Zulu_DFA]

Thompson family wrote...

As for the trial being on Earth, I have no heartburn over that because I'm sure that while the station may be very important, the seat of the alliance government is surely on Earth.

The seat of the Alliance government is surely on the Arcturus Station, because the Codex explicitely says so.

The Earth is divided between various national and supranational governments, of which the Systems Alliance, preivously another supranational organizaion and extrasolar colonial administration, has been fully independent since 2157.

But the retcon's on the way already, so no worries here at all, I guess.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 01 avril 2011 - 03:29 .

[GreenDragon37]

Pwener2313 wrote...

What's the big ****ing deal? Why do people want to complain so much!? We wanted earth, BW gives it to us.... and now we complain more?

I ****ing hate this place sometimes.

This!

This whole complaint is so... trivial!