12 réponses à ce sujet

[Basher of Glory]

In my second run as a rogue I'm experimenting with the shadow spec. I'm not sure, if I understood anything correctly, so it can all be my fault, but as I see it now, it doesn't work or is at least overcomplicated.

I can hit an enemy critically and - if he survives - he should be disoriented IF I was "obscured".
For this I skilled all the stealth-abilities, but that doesn't seem to be enough.
Must I throw a chameleon's breath before? Could I do something else actively to become "obscured"?

My current opinion is to skip anything in this tree exept the decoy, which seems to be fine.
But - as I assumed - probably I misunderstood the entire thing.

Some pointers?

[Morocius]

Fatigueing fog works for obscuring as does bursting shot, some other talent obscures you when you stealth. The whole ghost tree seems more intended to compliment another tree eventhough 100% crit on flanking and +25% crit damage are nice bonuses.

I'm not even sure cameleon's breath is worth it for the rogue itself, seeing as you'll most likely hit the 80% defense cap anyway (not counting obscured mixed with the ghost talent)

[Bigdawg13]

Note, none of my rant has anything to do with archery rogues.

Obscure, from the perspective of a DW rogue, has NOTHING to do with defense since it will already be so high with you dumping a lot of your points into cunning. What it does do though, is in tandem with the shadow tree gives you +25% crit damage. And if you are spec'd correctly, you should have a ridiculously high crit chance (meaning +25% crit damage is really +25% damage).

That is a huge buff. So how do you become obscured?

Well, you have two choices. You can rely on others or handle it yourself. Most people prefer the latter. Assuming you are a DW rogue, that means your only choices are fatiguing fog and Chameleon's Breath. The fog requires you 3 points in Sabotage whereas Chameleon's Breath only requires you to get Evade (which is semi-useful). On top of that, Chameleon's Breath can be upgraded to a 15 second duration, making it clearly superior. Not only does it require fewer points in it's respective tree, but it lasts longer. The only reason you'd want Fatiguing Fog over Chameleon's Breath is if you didn't go shadow at all and needed it to disorient your enemies and setup a CCC.

[Atmosfear3]

Fatiguing Fog is the best. Not only does it debuff your enemies but it can also obscure you and your party standing in the mist.

Predator is not a bad choice until you reach Act 3, in which case you should respec out of it since your crit will be so high. Shadow Veil can be useful if you like to stealth into a group of enemies and assassinate high priority targets. This does require lingering shroud though if you intend on killing the target and getting away.

[Peter Thomas]

Just a note, Obscure gives a dodge bonus, not a defense bonus. Dodge is calculated outside of defense, So it would give a bonus even if you had 80% Defense already.

A character with 20% Dodge and 80% Defense would have:

0.8 (chance dodge fails) x 0.2 (chance defense fails) = 0.16 = 16% chance of being hit

[Bigdawg13]

Well I guess that's the crux of it isn't it. We're talking about the benefit of obscure as it pertains to the Shadow Spec.

Chameleon's Breath and Fatiguing Fog can both be taken to maximize your obscure time (which gives more value to the shadow spec's Disorientating Criticals skill.

But to get the benefit of Fatiguing Fog, you have to sink 3 points into Sabotage. Miasmic Flask is ok, but Rush is really a waste of a point. Then you have to upgrade one of those less than stellar abilites to get Fatiguing Fog, which doesn't even obscure you yet. Then you have to upgrade Fatiguing Fog. That's 5 points in sabotage to get the obscure effect for 10 seconds, just so you can make better use of Shadow Spec (see the OP's title)'s Disorientating Criticals.

Compare that to Chameleon's Breath, which is 2 points to get the same value in terms of being obscured so you can do more damage. 1 more point and you get a 50% increase in duration!!!!

I recognize that fatiguing fog debuffs the enemy in addition to obscuring you, but the number of points you have to sink into the tree is ridiculous. Where are you gonna take points from? The assassinate tree? Or maybe the shadow tree? HA! That was the whole point of obscure what the shadow tree. Maybe you give up the twin fangs? HA!

The only way Fatiguing Fog can compete with Chameleon's Breath in terms of the benefit of obscure for a shadow DW rogue, is if you exploit the Maker's Sigh bug and get more ability points than you should have.

[Basher of Glory]

I should have mentioned that my current rogue is an archer.

The five points to get fatiguing fog is indeed a long road.

[Bigdawg13]

I've been thinking about the fact you the OP is an archer. There is a loss of synergy with an Upgraded Fog and Shadow's Disorientating Critical. Let me explain.

Fatiguing Fog is great to use on enemies, because it lowers their damage output (good debuff). When it's upgraded, it's great to throw on your tank too, because now they take less damage. But to get it's benefit with Shadow's Disorientating Criticals, you have to use it on yourself. This is great if you are being hit by things because it makes you harder to hit and debuffs them. But that works independently of Shadow Spec.

It seems to me that Shadow's Disorientating Criticals works best in tandem with Chameleon's Breath because you want to use it on you, not on enemies.

Basically throw Chamelean's Breath on yourself and enjoy disorientating enemies with your increased crit damage, or skip Shadow altogether and pick up Fatiguing Fog so you can help debuff enemies.

[Bigdawg13]

I should add that Lingering Shroud is horrible in tandem with using upgraded fog or chameleon's breath on yourself since you can easily remove a buff that should last 10 to 15 seconds.

[Basher of Glory]

Really interesting. Obviously I'm too stupid to understand the descriptions.


Please tell me, that you or someone else figured that out by excessive testing and not only by reading the description

[Afterthot]

I'm actually on my second play through at the moment, and I'm also using an Archery Rogue. To get obscured ( as opposed to wasting talents on Fatiguing Fog or Chameleons Breath), I'm using Shadow Veil - one of the last passives in the Shadow tree itself. Whenever I use stealth (or drop a decoy and/or use my upgraded Back to Back) I automatically gain obscured as well - I hope. It's hard to tell when 'obscured' doesn't show up as a buff. I'm assuming the graphical representation of it is a swirly circular thingy that appears around my rogue.

[Basher of Glory]

Experimenting around with this and it seems to work in all reported ways. I personally like it to cast that fatiguing fog on me.
I didn't spend points in camouflage, because I was a bit annoyed, how short it is despite all upgrades. Maybe I am still used to DA:O-camouflage