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#1
indio

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Greetings builders.

I'm a retired NWN1 & 2 builder and have started getting a little excited over the imminent arrival of the DA toolset. Most of my building was for the ALFA persistent world where over 6 years I built Waterdeep, Skullport, Silverymoon, Baldur's Gate, Loudwater and lots of other stuff. If you want to see my work it's on my project site which is linked through my DA project page (see sig).

I want to share some of the lessons I've learned, mostly through making mistakes and trying again, some of which others have shared with me.

1. Learn the shortcuts
I noticed on the Wiki this link:
http://social.biowar...x.php/Shortcuts
Building takes many hours and requires hundreds of individual actions every hour. Reduce your reliance on the mouse and increase your working efficiency by using shortcuts as often as possible. Thanks to whoever made that wiki page. It was the first thing I looked at.

2. Discovery > Instruction
Learn the toolset through discovery, not by reading the manual. If you don't agree, read the manual. When you get stuck, read the manual....if a manual exists. Not sure if one does. I usually print off any instruction I find useful and keep it in a folder which I then read when I'm not at the computer.

3. Less is more
If in doubt, fewer tress, single placeables and the least number of mobs possible. Even if your system can handle much, much more. Assume most players of your mod will have minimum spec. As a design principle, less is more has weight. While a thousand trees may look more like a forest, use the time saved placing 100 trees instead by tweaking lighting, SFX and considered placement of your trees.

It's worth noting also that an area you spend more time stripping things out of than putting things in will waste considerably more of your time than one which possesses few enough to run effectively straight up.

4. Variation > Population
Five rocks each with a slightly different tint and rotation look better than 50 rocks of the same color identically aligned. This is true of mobs also. The human eye easily detects uniformity. But subtle changes are quite noticeable to the discerning eye, and it makes a considerable impact in a module if each item is a considered choice rather than a mindless mass.

5. Never stop saving under different filenames and in different locations
I hear the new toolset is stable, but hard drives remain fallible. Nothing excuses lost work nowadays, nor does anything cripple enthusiasm more. (As I went to post this thread, I hit Ctrl-B...don't ask why...and was transported to another page...for a moment I thought I'd lost this whole post and momentarily thought 'I'm not rewriting it'. Learn how to keep your work safe as a priority.)

6. Trust your vision
Mr. Miyagi had it right when he told Daniel-son to picture the perfect bonzai tree and then to trust the image in his head. Lie in bed and imagine what an area should look like, trust that vision and built to it.

7. Finish a project
As an experienced (old) school teacher it's easy to see what discourages kids more than anything else...most of them don't know how to finish something as strongly as they started. My advice is to finish somehting small and manageable first, with clearly defined paramters. Ambition and enthusiasm quickly run dry in the face of endless obstacles and disappointments. Finish something small, then replicate that project at the start of the next project. Build upon successes.

8. Don't build in a vacuum
Share how you build, share secrets and tips, listen to the advice of others, try new ways of building, improve your efficiency by recongzining your tried and true method wasn't as good as you thought it was. Building in a vacuum, without support or feedback, generally leads to burnout. What you regard as your own poor efforts will no doubt be considered by some to be much, much better than theirs. There will be some superstar builders whose work will make others question the worth of their own efforts. Don't. Post your work. Screenshots are the best way of being supported. Do it regularly.

9. Take your time
A rushed module may lead to discouraging feedback. Look at the Vault as an example. Most of the truly loved modules came out years after the game was released.

10. If it's not fun, do something else
Building is awesome fun and I love it, but it is not as much fun as a picnic, a date, a concert, a good film with a friend, cooking (under certain circumstances), sunsets, drinking buddies, some books, and should never get in the way of time you should be spending with your kids. The moment it's not fun, seriously, do something else.

Good luck, and please post your own philosophies and tips.

Noin Dwarf:
11. Don't work alone.
If you have any possibility, try to make a
group of adherents, who like your ideas. Almost nobody can do all the
work alone to make a great mod - some good in making scenarios, some
love to create landscapes (f.e. me), some even to script! If you will
work on mod in group, there will be much bigger chance that you will
complete it. And it'll be good. (And IMO this is much more fun)


Beerfish:
12. Learn in stages
Do not get overwhelmed by the amount of features/buttons/tools in any
toolset. Approach different areas of the toolset one at a time and
forget about all the settings and toolset that you may never use.


EdwinPF
13. Work to a plan
 Start with a written outline of your module - the areas, quests, NPCS and creatures

14. Set achieveable goals
Have a written action plan with goal dates for completing each phase of your module.


CID-78
15. Set realistic timelines
Everything takes alot longer then you think. you should atleast multiply your estimated by 2.

16. Don't stop experimenting
make sure there is room for experiment/prototype and learning in your
planning. and not only what the final product will contain.


Doombringer_sec
17. Do your homework
Before actually starting solid work, do some research on similar
things. if you do a desert mod, look up images of a real desert. If you
create a skin texture, you should look at the skin of the item in real
first. This will avoid alot of mistakes, and counts for almost
anything, at least from my point of view.


Hassukissa
18. Make the kind of module YOU want to play
Make the kind of module YOU want to play, and make it primarily for
your own entertainment, and try to ignore the forum buzz going on about
what OTHER designers are doing.

I'll elaborate a little.
It's easy to get caught up by the forums/fans, those never-ending
threads of 'what do people want to see in modules?' and the somewhat
binary approach of generic forum population when things totally suck
unless it is their current favorite. It's very easy to start comparing
your project to someone else's who gets a lot of positive buzz, and
feel discouraged.

Don't get discouraged, believe in your
own project. If you like to play it (and you should, since you are the
primary playtester), chances are high there are others who will like it
as well.


wearyvagrant
19. Research before asking
Don't be shy about asking questions but search for the answer before
you do. Even if it's just the forums you want to post in. I mention
this because it can be disheartening (at least I find it to be) to post
a question and have no one answer. I have found that sometimes, because
the answer has been given so many times, people might skip over the
post. Sniff around the forums first to see if the question has been
answered. If it hasn't then post away and state that you have looked
else where. I have found people are more open to respond if they know
you have put forth some effort to find the answer yourself. Also don't
forget that if you haven't found the answer yourself it increases the
chances that your post will help someone else as well. Which is always
a plus.


Beerfish
20. Niche Modules
...there is nothing wrong with making a niche module.  It
will be impossible to appeal to all people.  Even the highest rated NWN
modules got their fair share of flack so follow the advice of the above
poster and make something you like and narrow the focus if you wish.


FalloutBoy
21. Objective distance
And try not to take it personally when some don't like the results of your hard work. Not everything will appeal to everyone. :)


Thirdpres
22. Mind your muse
In line with the last few comments, go where your muse takes you. Do
what you enjoy. It's been said that if you don't mind your muse, you'll
lose it.

I do think it is useful to
keep an eye on constructive criticism, but you need to want that and
you need to do what you feel is important for you and your work. You
are the builder all after all.


Modifié par indio, 02 novembre 2009 - 07:43 .


#2
Driggan

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Impressive list with solid advice. I loved the part about Discovery > Instruction, since it's my approach to most things in life as well as the Toolset. It's served me well enough so far.



A must read, I've been trying to think of a smaller project to work on before moving on to bigger things, and now I'm sure it's the right thing to do.

#3
Noin_dwarf

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I have one thing to say:

11. Don't work alone.
If you have any possibility, try to make a group of adherents, who like your ideas. Almost nobody can do all the work alone to make a great mod - some good in making scenarios, some love to create landscapes (f.e. me), some even to script! If you will work on mod in group, there will be much bigger chance that you will complete it. And it'll be good.
(And IMO this is much more fun)
I'm looking forward to creating or joining in some group of modders, if i will decide to start modding in DAO.:whistle:

Modifié par Noin_dwarf, 29 octobre 2009 - 11:04 .


#4
Niko Daemon

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Awesome post; actually one of the more pertinent in this entire forum. *props*



Made me think...


#5
MikeSunrider

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This is a great list indio. Great advice for a beginner like me. I am a bit daunted cause I've never worked in the other Toolsets. But I consider myself a born storyteller.



Thanks for the wonderful list.

#6
Draelorn

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I'm with Mike on this. I'm a newbie, but I love to write, and I love RPGs. This is a great medium for storytelling. In all of my favorite games, story and character come first. That was a great post. Its the same sort of advice I see in the art and illustration and writing forums I attend. The creative process is similar across the spectrum of media available to us. Good stuff!

#7
Dennis Carpenter

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Yes Thank you very much I have tried with the NWN toolset with marginal success and with this post and the new toolset I may actually be able to get something accomplished. browsed your project really nice love to see more of your work looking forward to it.

#8
Beerfish

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Yup, excellent list. One thing I would add to the list that I keep preaching is to do not get overwhelmed by the amount of features/buttons/tools in any toolset. Approach different areas of the toolset one at a time and forget about all the settings and toolset that you may never use.

#9
EdwinPF

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I suggest;



12. Start with a written outline of your module - the areas, quests, NPCS and creatures

13. Have a written action plan with goal dates for completing each phase of your module.




#10
CID-78

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14. everything takes alot longer then you think. you should atleast multiply your estimated by 2.
15. make sure there is room for experiment/prototype and learning in your planning. and not only what the final product will contain.

Modifié par CID-78, 30 octobre 2009 - 04:34 .


#11
indio

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I've updated the first post with these additions. Thanks for the insights. Personally, nothing is more valuable when it comes to building than the experience of others, so a special thanks to the beta testers who've contributed.



My big concerns have been about being overwhelmed by all the features and about the time things will take. Hearing these tips from you guys is just what I needed.



Yes Thank you very much I have tried with the NWN toolset with marginal success and with this post and the new toolset I may actually be able to get something accomplished. browsed your project really nice love to see more of your work looking forward to it.


Dennis Carpenter, you just made my day (it's early, so my kid may yet trump it). Thanks for the effort to take a look, and for the kind works.

#12
Herryk

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Indio,



I appreciate you putting this together, it was exactly something I was searching for. I have not toiled with a toolset since NWN1 so DA will be a brand new bag for me. Having some guidance from much more experienced individuals helps me envision things clearer.



Nice looking screens, btw. Oh, and cute kid! :)

#13
Draelorn

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As someone new to these forums and new to modding, it is very refreshing to see mature and friendly discussion. Egos seem to be in check, and I love the sense of teamwork here. The learning curve is too much to go it alone, at least for me. I feel like this will be a stress free environment to snag me some skills lol. Thanks everyone. :)

Modifié par Draelorn, 30 octobre 2009 - 09:13 .


#14
indio

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Herryk wrote...

Indio,

I appreciate you putting this together, it was exactly something I was searching for. I have not toiled with a toolset since NWN1 so DA will be a brand new bag for me. Having some guidance from much more experienced individuals helps me envision things clearer.

Nice looking screens, btw. Oh, and cute kid! :)

lol

It seems like my boy has been caught in a batch upload. I've shown him and he's enjoying the fame.

#15
Tailorein

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Great advice thank you!



Tailorein

#16
Myazuid

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Great post. Will pass it around.



Thanks for putting the effort in.

#17
Laxon

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You summed it up perfectly. The advice on sharing is vital. Not does it give people valuable input on their own work, but it lets them keep being excited about doing it and most of all keeping an audience going who will cheer you on when the going gets tougher.



Thanks for writing this up :)

#18
Doombringer_sec

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Well, one thing i learned over the past years for concepting design is reference. May it be a human face, voice, story, building, item or texture. It is a hundred times easier for a beginner to work from references then from scratch. The results often are more realistic then any just thought out concept that is based on just an idea. But of course the idea starts it all :).

17. Before actually starting solid work, do some research on similar things. if you do a desert mod, look up images of a real desert. If you create a skin texture, you should look at the skin of the item in real first. This will avoid alot of mistakes, and counts for almost anything, at least from my point of view.

Modifié par Doombringer_sec, 01 novembre 2009 - 01:39 .


#19
indio

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Very nice. Added.




#20
OwenM

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Indeed, that's a very good point. References are always useful.



And this is a great thread! Myazuid already posted about it in the DA:M group's discussion section, so hopefully that gets it spread around too. Good stuff. ^^

#21
Rawdog1

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Awesome stuff I can hardly wait

#22
Hassukissa

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Not really a design tip, as some here are, but rather a designing philosophy I go by. The bit about not working in a vacuum comes close, but from a different perspective.



Make the kind of module YOU want to play, and make it primarily for your own entertainment, and try to ignore the forum buzz going on about what OTHER designers are doing.



I'll elaborate a little. It's easy to get caught up by the forums/fans, those never-ending threads of 'what do people want to see in modules?' and the somewhat binary approach of generic forum population when things totally suck unless it is their current favorite. It's very easy to start comparing your project to someone else's who gets a lot of positive buzz, and feel discouraged.



Don't get discouraged, believe in your own project. If you like to play it (and you should, since you are the primary playtester), chances are high there are others who will like it as well.


#23
Lathaon

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Good stuff here.



I think I will start off mostly alone and just get to a stage when I can make some kind of cinematic, and then use it to show what I'm looking to create and find out who might be interested in participating in its creation. A few characters, a few portions of levels, maybe a non-spoilery plot point. I don't really have any evidence of skill or experience so I feel like I need to do more than just blurt out ideas before anyone (except maybe friends) would want to commit themselves to the project.

#24
wearyvagrant

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I don' know exactly how this fits in but its just some thing I have found from the editing communities I have been apart of.


Don't be shy about asking questions but search for the answer before you do. Even if it's just the forums you want to post in. I mention this because it can be disheartening (at least I find it to be) to post a question and have no one answer. I have found that sometimes, because the answer has been given so many times, people might skip over the post. Sniff around the forums first to see if the question has been answered. If it hasn't then post away and state that you have looked else where. I have found people are more open to respond if they know you have put forth some effort to find the answer yourself. Also don't forget that if you haven't found the answer yourself it increases the chances that your post will help someone else as well. Which is always a plus.


This one is to stress EdwinPF’s point:


EdwinPF wrote...
I suggest;
12. Start with a written outline of your module - the areas, quests, NPCS and creatures
13. Have a written action plan with goal dates for completing each phase of your module.



This is so true it’s staggering. Plan, plan, plan. Going in with a plan before you open the toolset, any toolset, will save you time, perhaps some frustration and will give you a direction right away as to what features/systems in the toolset you’ll need to start achieving your goal. Starting out stumbling around may have you mashing together systems you may not even need so you set yourself behind the redo 8 ball right from the start. I’m not talking about stumbling around learning the editor; I think that is good, I’m talking about the process of when you sit down with an end goal in mind.


May be I have been blind to people’s creative ways but from what I have seen in the editing communities I have been a part of, only a hand full of people seem to make something worth while on the fly. Everyone else that tries seems to end up frustrated, confused and with something that might not be as strong of a reflection of their true abities. Plan.:)

Modifié par wearyvagrant, 02 novembre 2009 - 02:08 .


#25
Thirdpres

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I'll post a link to the old Module Design and Builder's Toolkit from NWN here as it fits the general purpose of this thread. It is a massive series of posts that was a sticky in the Modules section of the NWN Bioware forums.



http://nwn.bioware.c...2&forum=66&sp=0



Here is the first paragraph, sub NWN for DA, somethings will be different the essential ideas are very much the same:



The purpose envisioned for this post is to act as a series of tools and a forum for builders to discussion the processes involved in developing a NWN module but not in anyway that demeans another’s point of view. This post is not an attempt to establish an authority over methods for designing and building NWN modules. Not every topic has been thoroughly explored here so there will be issues not fully addressed, or not addressed at all, due in large part to this being a huge, complex, subject. Add subjects, ideas, and opinions as you see fit. Refining both the structure of the post and its contents may end up being an ongoing process so that it, or a future version of it, can be used by builders to design and build better NWN modules for the community to enjoy.





I'll hope this proves useful for some people.