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[LobselVith8]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Actually, what I initially said was that if people are basing their decisions on particular reasons to side with the mages, then it isn't an act made by default. I didn't realize I was supposed to engage in a literary debate with you over the precision of how the American language is written.

Then perhaps it's about time you learn how other people in the world talk, hm, rather than insist on taking offense because it doesn't match your vernacular.

You mean by addressing what the word is used for and in the context in which it's stated? That's what I did, Dean.

Dean_the_Young wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Again, I don't see what this has to do with addressing that if people are making informed decisions about siding with mages, it isn't merely done automatically.

Since default, in the way David was using it, doesn't mean automatically... well, you still haven't gotten that either.

If he's mentioning how people are siding with mages by default, then it does possess the same meaning.

Dean_the_Young wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I addressed what was specifically said by David Gaider, and even used the quote.

And ignorred the context of Gairder's discussion.

Yes, we've mentioned this.

No, I addressed the context of it being addressed for people siding with mages by default.

Dean_the_Young wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I'm not certain why you're even addressing me in this thread since you made it clear before that you had no wish to engage with me in dialogue after I mentioned how you attacked someone for having a different opinion than you.

And this is the selective memory and attention about why I stopped arguing on a different topic. Because you completely make **** up instead of actually addressing what people say to you.

I didn't make anything up. She called you out for attacking her, and you pretended you had no idea what she was talking about, even though you were the one she was discussing the issue with. Instead of trying to defame me, maybe you should try to retain your composure when people disagree with you.

[LobselVith8]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Starting a thread to spend five pages moaning about someone who wasn't even refering to me?

Uh, no.

For someone who throws around the word "Strawman" frequently, you seem to have a habit of arguing points that aren't actually addressed. Again, I never said David Gaider was addressing me personally.

[Dean_the_Young]

LobselVith8 wrote...

You mean by addressing what the word is used for and in the context in which it's stated? That's what I did, Dean.

No, it isn't. People have already explained the difference to you.

If he's mentioning how people are siding with mages by default, then it does possess the same meaning.

No, it doesn't.

No, I addressed the context of it being addressed for people siding with mages by default.

You have deliberately and purposely ignored everything that would have mitigated your grief in order to extend it.

I didn't make anything up.

Yes, you do. Strawman arguments, quite frequently, like right now.

This is exactly why there's no respect for you.

[Dean_the_Young]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Starting a thread to spend five pages moaning about someone who wasn't even refering to me?

Uh, no.

For someone who throws around the word "Strawman" frequently, you seem to have a habit of arguing points that aren't actually addressed. Again, I never said David Gaider was addressing me personally.

And I never said you said he was addressing you. You have, however, been taking personal offense to another level for it's own sake.

[wowpwnslol]

It's so easy to be against mages in this game. A mage murders and mutilates your mother. My character instantly wanted to slaughter every mage after that. Siding with templars is a logical choice.

[Camenae]

Guys chill.

I really don't think Mr. Gaider intended the whole "by default" thing to have the kind of meaning that Lobs is offended by. But if you insist on being offended by it then nobody can talk you out of it. I could take offense when people call me "little Chinese girl," but if I knew they didn't mean it in a condescending racial way, then why would I take offense?

[Rifneno]

wowpwnslol wrote...

It's so easy to be against mages in this game. A mage murders and mutilates your mother. My character instantly wanted to slaughter every mage after that. Siding with templars is a logical choice.

I'm guessing you missed the part where they guarantee that if Hawke isn't a mage, Bethany is around for Act 1 to pound it into your head that not all mages, even illegal ones, are even remotely bad.  They make absolutely sure you know that you're going to be murdering innocent people by taking the templar route.  Totally the logical choice.

You know why Hitler's name comes up in every second message sent across the Internet whenever someone wants an example of pure, undeniable evil?  It's not because everyone thinks his mustache looks stupid (it does, but that's not the point), it's because genocide is the purest form of evil on Earth.

[The Angry One]

Rifneno wrote...

genocide.

You keep using that word.
I don't think it means what you think it means.

[wowpwnslol]

Rifneno wrote...

I'm guessing you missed the part where they guarantee that if Hawke isn't a mage, Bethany is around for Act 1 to pound it into your head that not all mages, even illegal ones, are even remotely bad.  They make absolutely sure you know that you're going to be murdering innocent people by taking the templar route.  Totally the logical choice.

I don't need Bethany to know not all mages are evil. However a lot of them are. And society in general would be better off with having them locked up. Even when locked up they turn to corruption (Orsino). A mage was responsible for the murder of your mother for the sake of experiment. The best way would be to make mages tranquil at birth. Sacrifice for the greater good of the society.

You know why Hitler's name comes up in every second message sent across the Internet whenever someone wants an example of pure, undeniable evil?  It's not because everyone thinks his mustache looks stupid (it does, but that's not the point), it's because genocide is the purest form of evil on Earth.

Pure undeniable evil would be society, which failed to put a leash on mages like Tevinter Imperium, who use ordinary people's blood for their magic.

Honestly, if it came down to it, I'd rather eliminate a few thousand mages to keep millions of ordinary people safe. And it has very little to do with Hitler's philosophy. Hitler thought he was eliminating the "impure" races, while here you're eliminating a very real threat to society.

[Rifneno]

wowpwnslol wrote...

I don't need Bethany to know not all mages are evil. However a lot of them are. And society in general would be better off with having them locked up. Even when locked up they turn to corruption (Orsino). A mage was responsible for the murder of your mother for the sake of experiment. The best way would be to make mages tranquil at birth. Sacrifice for the greater good of the society.

At first, I thought people were complaining over nothing when they said that the "thin veil" aspect of the story shouldn't be hidden in a codex achievement.  I'm starting to agree, it's like nobody knows Kirkwall makes mages crazy until they're told.

So anyway, who put a ton of mages in a place that would slowly drive them mad until they started stitching together zombie wives?  That's right.  The templars, the Chantry.

Pure undeniable evil would be society, which failed to put a leash on mages like Tevinter Imperium, who use ordinary people's blood for their magic.

Honestly, if it came down to it, I'd rather eliminate a few thousand mages to keep millions of ordinary people safe. And it has very little to do with Hitler's philosophy. Hitler thought he was eliminating the "impure" races, while here you're eliminating a very real threat to society

I didn't dig up the Godwin's Law ghost to make a comparison and say the motivation was the same.  I was making a point that the reason he's always used in those comparisons is because society views trying to wipe out a group of people for being born differently as the single most evil act a human being can commit.

[Aldandil]

Rifneno wrote...
I didn't dig up the Godwin's Law ghost to make a comparison and say the motivation was the same.  I was making a point that the reason he's always used in those comparisons is because society views trying to wipe out a group of people for being born differently as the single most evil act a human being can commit.

Well, the reason we believe that is because no one actually is different.

[Huntress]

ZombiePowered wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

There is an institution that oppresses some people for being gifted beyond normal people.

Given no more information than that, I'd be surprised if anyone would side with the oppressors.

But we are given more information than that, much much more information all through DAO and of course DA2 takes it to a whole new level.  The dangers of unregualted mages are talked about early in DAO and then mulitple incidents totally backs up the premise that they are a danger.  Who is to blame for them being a danger is up for debate but they are hardly just gifted people.

Yes. But that is why most people will side with the mages by default. You have to be convinced that the oppression is just, not the opposite.

The oppression is quite just. Yes, these are people. Yes, not all purposely seek to abuse those without magical ability. But all of them are at risk of becoming possessed and turning into mass-murdering machines whenever they have a moment of weakness. If that doesn't justify locking them up in a controlled, isolated fortress, I don't know what does.

That said, the mages are also a great asset to Thedas. They Exalted Marches only managed to push the Qunari back because they countered their advanced technology with magic. Thus, there is a line that needs to be walked. Mages need to be watched because they can become a great danger to all those around, but they need to be given enough room to breathe so they can continue developing arcane knowledge to give Thedas the edge it needs to resist future Qunari invasions. The Circle system is a good idea, it just needs to be executed in a more balanced, intelligent fashion.

The problem with your observation is, even if they don't show any risk of been possesed, turning into killing machines and everything also you want to add, they are PUT in a jail at the mercy of the jailers, just because of an IF.

And yet we see templars raping, murdering and turning tranquil any mage and make them do anything* they want and not one  have a problem with that. sickening... 
The templar helping mages, are few and most of them is because they have someone close to them been Mage.
Mages can't even put a foot in a chantry to seek refuge like Alsitair said to a mage trying to flee the tower in DAO.

The Circle was meant to be a place of learning not a freaking jail or an easy and cheap bordel.

[Kaigen42]

wowpwnslol wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

I'm guessing you missed the part where they guarantee that if Hawke isn't a mage, Bethany is around for Act 1 to pound it into your head that not all mages, even illegal ones, are even remotely bad.  They make absolutely sure you know that you're going to be murdering innocent people by taking the templar route.  Totally the logical choice.

I don't need Bethany to know not all mages are evil. However a lot of them are. And society in general would be better off with having them locked up. Even when locked up they turn to corruption (Orsino). A mage was responsible for the murder of your mother for the sake of experiment. The best way would be to make mages tranquil at birth. Sacrifice for the greater good of the society.

Better yet, go the Qunari route and put your mages in chains and brainwash them until they lack any free will and are incapable of functioning on their own. That' s probably better than lobotomizing them at birth, right? Right?

Man, the Chantry must wish so bad they could copy the Qunari's techniques. They'd have mages as powerful tools to help them further their agendas without having to give lip service to the idea that mages are human beings, which obviously isn't the case, but no one else seems to see it. I'm sure they would make them all Tranquil at first discovery if they didn't need to use them so badly.

Better yet, since everybody seems to have this worrying potential to turn evil and kill others, Tranquilize all of society at birth. For the greater good of society.