454 réponses à ce sujet

[Dormiglione]

LukaCrosszeria wrote...


Flemeth said in the beginning, the world will tremble before you, and something along the lines of leap when your moment comes. After playing the demo for days in anticipation of the game, I was so excited when Hawke finally left Lothering. I expected a protagonist with a family and a home I would come to care about (something I haven't experienced yet in other games). That was the whole idea behind limiting the race choice + giving a family, to commit the player more to the character. I was excited about the companions I'd meet. I didn't mind knowing that Hawke would become the Champion, since you got to shape how he got there. The road is more important than the destination. I was curious to see how it would come about. But after a while, it became clear that instead of impacting the world around him, Hawke was a character in a book that was already written out to the end and nothing he said or did really mattered. Bonds with family and companions felt contrived because not enough time was put in developing them, scenes that should have been incorporated in the game were handled in timeskips (poof, hello mansion?) and too much was out of Hawke's control. At the end I didn't get the feeling Hawke made that leap that Flemeth talked about.

I agree with you.
I expected to see the changes in the city between 1-3-6-10 years, but it was always the same. I thought that you had more conversation and interactions with your family, but it was not more than the conversation that i had with the companion in Awakening (Vigils Keep).
I thought that i would see more of Flemeth in DA2, but there are only 2 cut scenes.

[Ikzai]

Ever since I finished DA2 I've been trying to voice my opinion on it. I haven't been able to put it in words but this article pretty much hit the nail on the head.

[xi ShadowWolf x]

I think that review pretty much sums it up for me

[Khayness]

LukaCrosszeria wrote...

Flemeth said in the beginning, the world will tremble before you, and something along the lines of leap when your moment comes. After playing the demo for days in anticipation of the game, I was so excited when Hawke finally left Lothering. I expected a protagonist with a family and a home I would come to care about (something I haven't experienced yet in other games). That was the whole idea behind limiting the race choice + giving a family, to commit the player more to the character. I was excited about the companions I'd meet. I didn't mind knowing that Hawke would become the Champion, since you got to shape how he got there. The road is more important than the destination.

To quote the RPS article, I wish I had played that game.

[TJSolo]

nicethugbert wrote...

We're both wrong here.  I just saw a dual wield skeleton in DA:O attack about twice as fast as a SnS skeleton in DA:O.  So, DA:O monsters are in some, if not many, cases built like PCs.  It's kind of like PvP in some, if not many, cases.

How am I wrong? My post is not about the attack speeds of different classes within one game.

DA2 is very much like DA:O but stream lined and augmented for more action.  In DA2 you have to control agro.  It doesn't automatically go to the character with the heavy armor as it does in DA:O.  Plus, DA2 mages have shorter spellcasting ranges.  So, you can't safely leave your mages a mile back from your meat shields.  You have to work for battle field control in DA2, unlike in DA:O  Therefore, DA2 is the more tactical game.

Since the "range" behavior does not work for the AI when waves starts it just means I have to move them manually and requeue the move order if it drops, that is not increased tactics it is just moving manually when DAO had behaviors that worked.
The increased action is a one-sided improvment that the normal mobs do not have. Also normal mobs have lost several or all of their talents reducing the tactical awareness needed for each class. Increasing the amount of normal mobs per encounter does not increase tactics, it is just more repeating of the same tactic once the player  realizes that the waves are commonplace. Your point hinges on the element of surprise. The suprise the wave mechanic generates is just not there for DA2.

DA2 has much tougher force rules than DA:O.  All actions can be interupted so escape is not so easy as it is in DA2.  You always want to keep an eye open towards a path of retreat in DA2.  DA2 is simply less static, more active than DA:O.  So it is the more tactical game and aggresive game, as far as battle go.

The level of activity and aggression are reaction tests that do not increase the tactical options in DA2.
DA2 only had friendly fire on NM and even has a large assortment of offensive talents that do not target friendlies.
I don't recall there being the option to retreat in DA2. Once in battle all area exits become unusable while in combat and the player stays in combat until the party is wiped or all enemies are defeated.

[Zeevico]

DA2 does have options for retreating. You simply have to kite enough and enemies (or most of them) conveniently forget about you. Same with DAO. It's a flaw with both games. However it doesn't work for bosses (exits are closed for them usually).

Modifié par Zeevico, 03 avril 2011 - 01:33 .

[Amenirdis]

I agree with almost everything written in that article. I don't think the game is bad, but it could have been much better.

Battles:
I am a bit torn on this subject. I kind of liked the faster pace and I enjoyed how the mages staffs also deal melee damage.
I don't like how enemies simply pop out from the sky. I prefered DAO's handling of enemy encounters better in that respect and how it enabled more interesting battle strategies.

Exploding bodies & blood:
Well... what can I say? I don't like it. It's just too much. Silly.

Rogue:
Where has the laying out of traps gone? Or the pickpocketting? In DAO I loved sneaking up on the enemy and laying out traps where they were most effective. Of course, the way battles are handled in DA2, you can't any such strategies, which is shame.

Armour:
Loved some of the new Rogue armour and that the 'neck line' was covered up in different ways than just the 'dog collar' from DAO. Bethany's scarf, comes to mind.
While I visually liked the companions' own armor style, I often wished I could have given those new boots (robes etc) I just got from a chest/foe/merchant to one of my companions. I would like to have the choice to either let them keep their own armour or give them those pieces my character can't wear.

Companions:
In DAO I really cared for most of the companions. However in DA2... you just don't get much of chance to do so.

Bethany I would have wished to have on my chars side for the rest of the story, as there would have so much potential to find out more about Hawke's family, even about Hawke him-/herself.

Carver: Again, so much lost potential there.

Anders: The way the story plays out, I just don't see why I should let Hawke care for him, if there's no chance to influence his actions in the end. The same applies to Merill, which I think is a shame, as I enjoyed how she was voiced and her sometimes bumbling ways.

Varric: Definitely the best character in this game. I thought he was very well written and voiced. I always keep him in my team.

Aveline: Contrary to the author of the review, I liked that character. A solid friend to Hawke.

Fenris: I can't decide how I feel about this companion. Sometimes I like him - up to the point where he goes on a rant on how all mages are evil etc. While I can understand his point of view, I really whished that, after several years in the company of Hawke's entourage, he'd be a bit more... understanding towards mages.

Isabella: I haven't had her much on my teams so far, so I can't comment much about her.

Conversations:
While there is an improvement compared to Awakenings, I still prefer DAO's way of handling it. It would help a lot to make me feel more involved, if I could talk to my companions wherever/whenever I want (except in battle, of course).

I do like how the others have their own homes and visit each other sometimes, though. That's a very nice touch, in my opinion.

Another thing that annoyed me sometimes is how the answers are paraphrased in the conversation wheel. Sometimes what's been written and what's actually been said by Hawke differs simply too much and I was sitting in front of my monitor thinking: Hey, no! That's NOT what I meant! At all!

Mages vs. Templars:
Having a sister who's an apostate, my Hawke of course supports the mages' case, though not supporting blood magic. Over the years she keeps trying to ease the tension between those two parties. She even sides with the mages in the end (on her first playthrough, anyway).
I was very disappointed how almost every mage turned to blood magic, even the first enchanter in the end. No matter what choices have been made before.
In the end I despised both groups and would have loved to grab Hawke and his friends and return to Ferelden and let those thick headed morons (sorry) finish each other off by themselves.

I think the frustrating part is that there is no real choice. Maybe it's because of how the story is told -> Varric telling how it was. It wouldn't make any sense for Varric to be questioned like this, if there hadn't been a huge mess in the end.
Telling DA2 this way was a brave decision. It is in its own way a refreshing change. In my opinion however, it confines the overall story too much.
As I stated at the beginning of my rambling thoughts, the game is not bad. It is enjoyable. However it lacks the certain something that DAO had, that made me replay it several times.

Oops, sorry for this long post. And I appologize for any grammar/spelling mistakes. It is late and English is not my native language.  I hope though, that you understand what I've been trying to say.


Edit: Forgot one more thing! I loved that some of the old DAO characters had a short cameo. However, if it hadn't been for the voice, I wouldn't have recognised Zevran. I prefered how he looked in DAO. I do like the big eyes of the elves, however.

Modifié par Amenirdis, 03 avril 2011 - 02:34 .

[Braag]

Oh, how did I miss this, I usually visit Rock Paper Shotgun daily.

[Peer of the Empire]

I found Alistair quite hateworthy.  Not fit to be a king

I like Dragon Age 2 btw

Modifié par Peer of the Empire, 03 avril 2011 - 07:23 .

[nicethugbert]

TJSolo wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

We're both wrong here.  I just saw a dual wield skeleton in DA:O attack about twice as fast as a SnS skeleton in DA:O.  So, DA:O monsters are in some, if not many, cases built like PCs.  It's kind of like PvP in some, if not many, cases.

How am I wrong? My post is not about the attack speeds of different classes within one game.

You said that the mobs in both games move at the same speed.  You are wrong.  They do not.

TJSolo wrote...

DA2 is very much like DA:O but stream lined and augmented for more action.  In DA2 you have to control agro.  It doesn't automatically go to the character with the heavy armor as it does in DA:O.  Plus, DA2 mages have shorter spellcasting ranges.  So, you can't safely leave your mages a mile back from your meat shields.  You have to work for battle field control in DA2, unlike in DA:O  Therefore, DA2 is the more tactical game.

Since the "range" behavior does not work for the AI when waves starts it just means I have to move them manually and requeue the move order if it drops, that is not increased tactics it is just moving manually when DAO had behaviors that worked.
The increased action is a one-sided improvment that the normal mobs do not have. Also normal mobs have lost several or all of their talents reducing the tactical awareness needed for each class. Increasing the amount of normal mobs per encounter does not increase tactics, it is just more repeating of the same tactic once the player  realizes that the waves are commonplace. Your point hinges on the element of surprise. The suprise the wave mechanic generates is just not there for DA2.

DA2 has much tougher force rules than DA:O.  All actions can be interupted so escape is not so easy as it is in DA2.  You always want to keep an eye open towards a path of retreat in DA2.  DA2 is simply less static, more active than DA:O.  So it is the more tactical game and aggresive game, as far as battle go.

The level of activity and aggression are reaction tests that do not increase the tactical options in DA2.
DA2 only had friendly fire on NM and even has a large assortment of offensive talents that do not target friendlies.
I don't recall there being the option to retreat in DA2. Once in battle all area exits become unusable while in combat and the player stays in combat until the party is wiped or all enemies are defeated.

In DA:O, your mages can hang out off screen and do whatever they want to the enemy and the enemy will ignore them.  There is nothing tactical about that and DA2 doesn't tolerate that ****.

[Cybermortis]

The only reason my DAO mages can avoid drawing attention to themselves is because they are not flinging high powered spells around from the start, and when they do start to do this my tank usually has enough agro to hold them.

That said more than once my Mage Warden unleashed a spell, only to see half the mobs turn and run at her regardless of what the tank did - purely because I'd used the spell too early.

In DA2 my mages typically get attacked anyway, with my tank being incapable of holding agro. I think the problem may lie in the faster combat and lower health, which just doesn't really allow a tank to get enough agro from the start. Other, related, problems may lie with the inability to outfit your party with armour you've picked up. (I'm not sure if DA2's agro system uses armour strength as a measure of agro as DAO does.) In DAO it was easy to make sure that your tank has better armour, and therefore better initial agro, than the rest of the party as all you had to do was see how heavy that armour was. It doesn't help that in DA2 the agro abilities are limited and for me just don't seem to work - then again I never was good at tanking.

It seems that ironically the 'streamlined' combat system of DA2 is more complex and difficult in many ways to DAO. And not more difficult in a good way

[nicethugbert]

In other words, it's just not DA:O. So you don't like it.

[Horus Blackheart]

And DA2 is deep flawless and amazing from start to finish?

Edit if anything it was overhyped and miss sold. If DA2 came before DAO i think people would have less issues with it to be honist.

Modifié par Horus Blackheart, 03 avril 2011 - 02:23 .

[Cybermortis]

No, I find it dull for a number of factors. The total lack of choice, style, thought and immersion are more a problem than the combat. Although the combat system is itself guilty of all of the above too, with it being far too 'arcade' based for a 'serious' RPG. By this I mean that we are presented with a 'realistic' world similar to our own in many ways, with limitations. Then we end up in fights where people can teleport around at will (even after being told this isn't possible), a rogue can do a standing jump that would beat a long-jumper, enemies explode if you look at them, two-handed weapons have all the weight of a feather and jumping 40 feet onto a cobbled floor in full plate armour (or on occasion apparently being able to fall from a couple of hundred feet out of a clear sky) is called 'tactics' rather than 'A great way to shatter your legs'.

None of these things, however, are more than minor annoyances in themselves. What is more depressing is that the overall feeling is of a game that has no energy or passion put into it, and which therefore has nothing to give me back. Even now Fighting the Archedemon in DAO, the Reaper in ME2 or Saren in ME makes my heart race, and when I take them down I get a genuine feeling of accomplishment and satisfaction at having finished the game - and I like the endings of all these games.

DA2? I didn't even realise I'd finished the game until the credits rolled, and then my reaction was 'what? that's it?'

[Horus Blackheart]

I was saying that I think people would be more forgiving if it came first in hopes of inprovement, rather than finding out this sup par game marks 'the new direction'. That implacation alone brings the suckage.

[TJSolo]

You said that the mobs in both games move at the same speed. You are wrong. They do not.

You twist and twist until things mean what you want, eh?

In DA:O, your mages can hang out off screen and do whatever they want to the enemy and the enemy will ignore them. There is nothing tactical about that and DA2 doesn't tolerate that ****.

Manually moving a mage or two between waves is not DA2 not tolerating anything nor is it tactical.

[nicethugbert]

Horus Blackheart wrote...

And DA2 is deep flawless and amazing from start to finish?

Edit if anything it was overhyped and miss sold. If DA2 came before DAO i think people would have less issues with it to be honist.

No, it's not deep, flawless, and amazing from start ot finish.  But, I'm not freaking out over it either, nor am I frwaking out over DA:O's lack of enchantment either.

DA2 is about as good as DA:O.  In some ways better.  I actually prefer the faster run and swing speed and the leaping and charging moves.  DA:O was slow, and NWN2 was ssssslllllllooooooowwwwwwww, but it had a better toolset and MP.

All of these games are far far from perfect.  But, DA2 isn't nearly as bad as people say it it because it shares alot in common with the supposed better games such as DA:O and lacks important features such as MP and extendable toolset.

But it has great stuff the other games don't have like:  faster movement, good responses speed, good animations, good pathfinding, fully voiced dialogs and cutscenes, dialog wheel, etc.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 03 avril 2011 - 04:37 .

[nicethugbert]

TJSolo wrote...

You said that the mobs in both games move at the same speed. You are wrong. They do not.

You twist and twist until things mean what you want, eh?

Enjoying your victim status?

TJSolo wrote...

In DA:O, your mages can hang out off screen and do whatever they want to the enemy and the enemy will ignore them. There is nothing tactical about that and DA2 doesn't tolerate that ****.

Manually moving a mage or two between waves is not DA2 not tolerating anything nor is it tactical.

If you want to insist that standing in the same spot throughout an entire battle safely casting from a screen away is tactics then good for you.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 03 avril 2011 - 04:43 .

[nicethugbert]

Cybermortis wrote...

No, I find it dull for a number of factors. The total lack of choice, style, thought and immersion are more a problem than the combat. Although the combat system is itself guilty of all of the above too, with it being far too 'arcade' based for a 'serious' RPG. By this I mean that we are presented with a 'realistic' world similar to our own in many ways, with limitations. Then we end up in fights where people can teleport around at will (even after being told this isn't possible), a rogue can do a standing jump that would beat a long-jumper, enemies explode if you look at them, two-handed weapons have all the weight of a feather and jumping 40 feet onto a cobbled floor in full plate armour (or on occasion apparently being able to fall from a couple of hundred feet out of a clear sky) is called 'tactics' rather than 'A great way to shatter your legs'.

None of these things, however, are more than minor annoyances in themselves. What is more depressing is that the overall feeling is of a game that has no energy or passion put into it, and which therefore has nothing to give me back. Even now Fighting the Archedemon in DAO, the Reaper in ME2 or Saren in ME makes my heart race, and when I take them down I get a genuine feeling of accomplishment and satisfaction at having finished the game - and I like the endings of all these games.

DA2? I didn't even realise I'd finished the game until the credits rolled, and then my reaction was 'what? that's it?'

It's bull**** to say there is total lack of choice in DA2.  You simply did not like the choices presented to you.  No need to say choice does not exist just because you don't like it. 

I'm not too concerned by the exagerated combat elements.  It's a game.  It fits right in with lightning issuing from the palm of one's hand.  I'd rather have that that the sluggishness typical of RPGs.

[TJSolo]

nicethugbert wrote...

Enjoying your victim status?

Just pointing out your attempt at trying to be as pedantic as possible

If you want to insist that standing in the same spot throughout an entire battle safely casting from a screen away is tactics then good for you.

I don't recall saying my tactics for mages are to standing in the same spot casting. I do see that I said that the range behavior in DAO works while the range behavior in DA2 does not work after waves start popping up and that moving mages requires manual direction.

Modifié par TJSolo, 03 avril 2011 - 05:40 .

[DiabolicallyRandom]

just read this a few hours ago. very well sums up my feelings now that my playtime has had a chance to sink in. I disagree with a few of his point, but on the whole, its a very accurate review I feel. I particularly agree with the point that this felt much more like another Awakenings than a full blown sequel. The expectations were just set too high. You don't release trailers and media and hype like was done for DAII, and then release... DAII as it is.

[AngryFrozenWater]

It's a strange game. It's indeed hard to say it's a bad game (in fact I like the game), but there is a lot wrong with it. One cannot say I didn't try. I am in my fourth playthrough and I was trying to find out what impact my choices from DA:O had, how my choices in DA2 would "shape the world" (something advertized in the BW podcast extensively), how well the characters are portrayed, and how the different talents for rogues and mages worked.

From the first playthrough onwards I am having a constant feeling of déjà vu. Wasn't I here before? Ah, no. I didn't do this quest before. Or did I? The recycled levels force that feeling upon me. The more I play the game, the more confused I got. Although the article is great, I found it strange that the author didn't have a problem with those copy paste levels.

I also found it strange that he thought that Aveline was a bad character. I hate her, but that is a good thing. That means she is well portrayed. I also wondered why he had problems with figuring out Merrill's quests. Unless he romanced her, it is pretty straight forward.

He was spot on the choices, but I did see some minor quest changes here and there from the DA:O import and DA2 decisions. But because of the recycled environments I have to admit that I cannot remember exactly how they went. Like the author I had the feeling that it didn't matter what I did. The main story played out just the same.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 03 avril 2011 - 07:21 .

[Hoogies123]

Agree with the article on every point, especially the Merrill quests part. They really didnt make any difference or any sense.

[QuentaSilmarillion]

excellent article