454 réponses à ce sujet

[Conduit0]

Oh hey look, a reviewer from a website dedicated to cRPG elitists wrote an article about how much he hates DA2 for not being a clone of DA:O, quick, someone call Fox News, we need to get the story out!

[nicethugbert]

.....
It would be madness to say that Dragon Age II is a bad game. ....

Am I disappointed by Dragon Age II? Very much so. Does that mean it’s terrible? Absolutely not.What
follows is a critique of where I think Dragon Age II went wrong. Read
without bearing this in mind it could look like an overtly negative
review. It’s not. The game gets much right, with some lovely quests, fun
chats, interesting characters, and moving stories.
....

I'm sure you guys whole heartedly agree with John Walker, especially about the above quote, right?

This time your choice of character is much more defined. You can be a
human rogue, mage or warrior, male or female. This is still a
significant choice, especially if you pick mage, but of course not
nearly so impacting as DAO’s mult-race, multi-class options.

I wonder if he had a problem with DA:O not having as many classes and races as NWN2, NWN1, IWD, BG, BG2, etc?  Bias.

There’s only one opening (which differs slightly depending upon whether you’re a mage or not), and it’s not an interesting one.

That is just his opinion.  It's not anymore important than that.

Which is much the same as DAO’s combat, except executed in such a way that there’s less need for tactics.

That is pure 100% unadulterated crack ho bull****.  It is the same combat with only two differences: it is faster, instead of spell combos you get cross class combos.  How can the same basic thing be not tactical this time but tactical the last time?  It can't.  Walker is bullshtting.

We then get the flashback joke as it’s revealed Varric isn’t telling the
truth, and mystifyingly have to repeat the same dull section, this time
with complaining companions.

Yeah, the first time through, you got to play it in superman mode one shotting everything and testing out the higher level abilities.  The next time you played it normal.  I liked getting a peak at the higher level abilities.  Oh, and Walker is bull****ting.  You're not playing it the exact same way twice.  There are differences.  You play out Varrics tale then you play out how it really happened.  And, so, you do a one or two encounters over again under different conditions.  Wow, major game breaker dude.  Whiner.

It ends in a fight that, well, I was doing just fine at that’s
interrupted by the arrive of the Witch of the Wilds, Flemeth, in the
form of a dragon. She asks for a mysterious favour, and then in some
unexplained way helps you get to Kirkwall.

Bull****.  My party had taken damage and run out of mana/stamina when the next wave showed up and there was no end in sight to the darkspawn.  Do you actually need en extra 30 seconds and dead party members and dead leandra and dead wesley to figure out the invitable? 

Flemeth can smoke a horde of darkspawn in the time it takes Hawke to kill one.  She's the size of a bus and can fly but Walker can't imagine how she got them to Kirkwall?  What a patronizing jackass.

How thick and unimaginative and over payed can one be?

The rest of Walker's **** fest goes along the same lines but I have better things to do than devote my time to it.  So, I'll leave the rest as an excerise for ths romper room.

Have fun kids.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 31 mars 2011 - 10:54 .

[Vast_Girth]

Conduit0 wrote...

Oh hey look, a reviewer from a website dedicated to cRPG elitists

Its a general PC gaming site/blog, not RPG centric at all..

Modifié par Vast_Girth, 31 mars 2011 - 10:52 .

[MKDAWUSS]

That article said what many of us have been saying for a while now.

[nicethugbert]

Yeah, but many of you are talking out of your lower orifice.

[planed scaped]

Hmm interesting.

If this game were called Dragon Age: Rise to Power and not Dragon age 2 and was marketed as a spinoff almost, I think I would've liked it a bit better maybe.

As of now though game is too unfinished and unpolished to warrent being called a sequel.

Modifié par planed scaped, 31 mars 2011 - 10:58 .

[DeathStride]

nicethugbert wrote...

That is pure 100% unadulterated crack ho bull****. 

The rest of Walker's **** fest goes along the same lines...

Your expansive vocabulary and charming eloquence do you credit.

Modifié par DeathStride, 31 mars 2011 - 11:04 .

[fchopin]

A good read, i agree with most of it apart for the II at the end, whatever name the game was given it would have made no difference.

[Khayness]

nicethugbert wrote...

Bias.

Pretty much sums up your post aswell.

[planed scaped]

It's funny how it's mostly the Biodrones who get unnecessarily hostile on the forums. >___>

[Conduit0]

DeathStride wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

That is pure 100% unadulterated crack ho bull****. 

The rest of Walker's **** fest goes along the same lines...

Your expansive vocabulary and charming eloquence do you credit.

Would you prefer, water vapor exuding mound of male bovine excrement? Bull**** is bull****, no matter how you describe it.

[Maverick827]

optimates0193 wrote...

Problem is, I have no frame of reference for what these people just lost.

Are you an only child? Are you single?

If you can't fathom losing a sibling or spouse, then I simply don't know what to say.

I think the disconnect here is that some RPG fans expect to be Hawke, but the narrative is constructed in such a way that you merely control Hawke.

In the case of the former, obviously you wouldn't care as much about Hawke's siblings or Aveline's husband as Hawke-the-person or Aveline-the-person does; since you are not Hawke nor Aveline, you do not care.

In the case of the latter - which I feel is much more of a novelist's take on RPG gaming - you can understand what the narrative role of these deaths are and thus understand how it would affect Hake-the-character and Aveline-the-character, respectively. This is, in my opinion, a much more practical and literary way to tell a story.

That said, I would have loved a "quiet life in Lothering" module of the tutorial a la the origins in DAO simply because I would have loved to have seen a revamped Lothering, perhaps with a Sten and/or Leliana cameo. I find it hard to believe that this concept wasn't heavily kicked around before ultimately being abandoned due to time and resource constraints.

[nicethugbert]

Khayness wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

Bias.

Pretty much sums up your post aswell.

Exactly and I'm honest enough to call it bias.  And I don't make up garbage such as "this game is not tactical like DA:O", when it's practically the same game!  I also don't make up crap like "everyone in the game is gay".

If you don't like the game, by all means, say you don't like it, elaborate until you die.  But don't make **** up.

[nicethugbert]

planed scaped wrote...

It's funny how it's mostly the Biodrones who get unnecessarily hostile on the forums. >___>

I'm allergic to bull**** and DA2 haters can't make their case without it.

[optimates0193]

nicethugbert wrote...

Which is much the same as DAO’s combat, except executed in such a way that there’s less need for tactics.

That is pure 100% unadulterated crack ho bull****.  It is the same combat with only two differences: it is faster, instead of spell combos you get cross class combos.  How can the same basic thing be not tactical this time but tactical the last time?  It can't.  Walker is bullshtting.

I wanted to comment on this part here. The combat absolutely requires less tactics, regardless of the difficultly level. You are correct in that the basics have essentially changed in those two ways. What you've missed (or ignored) is the drastic difference in the design of encounters.

Nearly every fight has waves that spawn in on top of you at random locations. This means you can't possibly strategically position and move your characters,. The only feasible strategy is to keep everyone lumped together in a blob and focus fire bad guys down. Not to mention some of the special abilities of lieutenants. I want to form a chokepoint with my two warriors to keep my mage safe? Oh, that assassin just teleported right past everyone and backstabbed him anyway. I want to stealth my rogue in behind the enemy line and take out that mage? Oh, the mage just bubbled up and/or teleported away. These things completely change the way the game plays, and not for the better.

Were there winning stratgies in DA:O? Absolutely. But at least in that game I had the freedom to choose how I'd approach the fight and the game rewarded me for taking a tactical approach. In DA:2, my only choice is to keep everyone in a blob moving together and focus fire targets. There's not even a point in using cross class combos really, because the speed of the combat is so fast that everything dies pretty quick anyway.  When you realize you're going to be doing the same thing fight after fight after fight, it starts to become boring.  

[Khayness]

nicethugbert wrote...

If you don't like the game, by all means, say you don't like it, elaborate until you die.  But don't make **** up.

I also think because of the dreadful encounter design that the combat is less tactical. I don't mind the waves, but I mind the few types of auto attacking cannon fodders and the one trick pony lieuteants, repeated nearly every damn time.

Am I making things up? No, it's just my bull**** opinion.

Modifié par Khayness, 31 mars 2011 - 11:24 .

[iTIMMEH]

This is pretty spot on. Unless you're a fanboy of course then it is biased, to long after release, pandering to the crowd or whatever other fantastical explanations for it being thin on praise.

I hope Bioware a) care and read this. I imagine that unless they are totally up themselves they will be nodding along to much of the criticism.

[optimates0193]

Maverick827 wrote...

optimates0193 wrote...

Problem is, I have no frame of reference for what these people just lost.

Are you an only child? Are you single?

If you can't fathom losing a sibling or spouse, then I simply don't know what to say.

I think the disconnect here is that some RPG fans expect to be Hawke, but the narrative is constructed in such a way that you merely control Hawke.

In the case of the former, obviously you wouldn't care as much about Hawke's siblings or Aveline's husband as Hawke-the-person or Aveline-the-person does; since you are not Hawke nor Aveline, you do not care.

In the case of the latter - which I feel is much more of a novelist's take on RPG gaming - you can understand what the narrative role of these deaths are and thus understand how it would affect Hake-the-character and Aveline-the-character, respectively. This is, in my opinion, a much more practical and literary way to tell a story.

That said, I would have loved a "quiet life in Lothering" module of the tutorial a la the origins in DAO simply because I would have loved to have seen a revamped Lothering, perhaps with a Sten and/or Leliana cameo. I find it hard to believe that this concept wasn't heavily kicked around before ultimately being abandoned due to time and resource constraints.

That line you quoted is in reference to the life they've lost. The more appropriate question would be, "Have I ever had to flee my home and watched my family be killed while losing everything I've ever had?" And my answer would be no, I have not.

It's fine that we merely control Hawke. That doesn't change the fact, however, that I would want to be immersed in the experience and care about what's going on. And that's what the problem with the opening is. It just throws you in without taking the time to set the stage so that I as a player care about what's happening to this family.

[DTKT]

nicethugbert wrote...

planed scaped wrote...

It's funny how it's mostly the Biodrones who get unnecessarily hostile on the forums. >___>

I'm allergic to bull**** and DA2 haters can't make their case without it.

It seems that no matter what someone post criticizing DAII, you are very quick to jump to it's defence.

[zambingo]

I like DA2. It has issues, sure. I wish some more of DAO-ness was present, but I can deal with it.

With that said I agree that calling the game DA2 might have been a mistake, given how different the feel of it is. The negative reception might have been less if called something like Dragon Age: Champion or something.

[wintermonk]

He makes some good points, like the problem with nobody recognizing mage characters as mages. I'm playing a mage, and I try to not wear robes to make that make sense. I think it would have been more fun to be hiding from the Templars, or to make an alliance with some powerful Templar who would keep them off your back provided you help them (which would be really interesting! A mage helping the Templars against other mages--I hate blood magic, so I wouldn't have problem going after blood mages).

Butsome of his comments seem too oriented toward personal taste. He thinks it should have started off slow and built up into battle. Like in origins. Well, most action movies nowadays start off right in the middle of action, and you can catch up on exposition later. I think either way can work fine--and I thought it was actually clever to have the first instance of fighting being Varric's little storytelling version, which allowed for people to get a sort of tutorial in the combat system, something that is necessary for new players even if it irks the veterans. And I love the family characters: Carver, Bethany, and Leandra. They same like realistic character to me (I've met a lore more people like Carver and Bethany than Merrill, Isabela, and Varric). Maybe other people didn't get attached to them. I did. I don't know if that means I'm sentimental or something.

And I absolutely love the Aveline character. Sorry if her voice sounds monotone or something, but is it really important that she have a really lively voice. She is a kind of stoic fighter. It's almost like somebody complaining to God for making the snow white, which is so plain, instead of something more colorful. Does everybody my character meet and associate with have to be as witty and colorful as an Oscar Wilde character? Gosh, I hope not. I'm in an epic, not a comedy of manners.

And some of his complaints are complains that could be aimed at all RPG's in general. For example, there is one thing I would LOVE to see addressed by makers of RPG's, and that is hit points. I really dislike how all fighters in all RPG's--in my opinion--do not come across (to me) as skilled fighters. They get hit constantly. Obviously, they are NOT truly skilled if they cannot parry or dodge anything. The only think that keeps them alive is a godlike constitution--the ability to be stabbed repeatedly with swords in the chest and keep on living and fighting. I would be exstatic to have a fighter that is blocking blows and dodging, to see and hear swords clanging off swords and shields, to see rogues are ducking and dodging, and then a fatal blow is dealt. Or a limb is chopped off. Instead you get people whacking each other over and over, gallons of blood is being spilled, and my character prevails simply because he/she has a ton of hit points. That is SO fake. It's not a complaint, mind you. This is in every RPG I have played from the original Dungeons and Dragons till today. In my mind, if you complain about one thing that is fake, then you could complain about this. So, there are a hundred fake and silly things about every RPG ever made, and you can take your pick.

But my hope is that maybe, someday, a game-maker will address this. I remember the scene in the movie Dragonheart (yes, a mediocre movie) in which Bowen is fighting the dragon and he's dodging fireballs and all that. That would be seriouly cool in game. Instead, when I play a fighter, I just keep whacking the dragon over and over and he keep whacking me over and over and hitting me with fire and I'm find cause I have enough health potions in my inventory and have no problems digging them out in the middle of a battle and drinking them and......I could go on. I guess it is a complaint after all. I dont' wnat my fighters getting stabbed over and over and over and over again. I would love to play a skilled fighter who doesn't get hit. Or, whose armor is proof against most common people's attacks--good steel plate armor in the late medieval age was a **** to try and penetrate!

That said, I do think he has pointed out a few enlightening things. Noobody recognizing my mage as a mage seemed really hard to believe. It requires a great willingness to suspend disbelief. And he is right about the flirtatious lines. Some of them were not good. I really liked Hawke's male and female voices (they seemed elegant and articulate), but sometimes they also seemed subdued, and the flirtatious lines were sort of silly sometimes. I guess I sort of felt that Hawke is supposed to be the character that millions of different people play, so if they gave him/her too much personality, then it wouldn't fit to so many people. So they almost have to make him/her a bit bland so that he/she can be adapted to many different people. At least, that's what I thought.

[SuperMedbh]

Aside from his dislike of Aveline (who is *supposed* to come off as a humorless stick in the mud 2D character-- then you get to know her), pretty much spot on.

The important take away is that he actually really liked DA2-- Bioware's team is still strong enough to put out some pretty good stuff, even when it has some major flaws. But if those flaws weren't there, this would have been the ME2 of the Dragon Age series. Instead, it's an enjoyable playthrough with limited replayability.

[Dragoonlordz]

nicethugbert wrote...

Yeah, but many of you are talking out of your lower orifice.

Because clearly everyone else is wrong except you.

[gotthammer]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

Yeah, but many of you are talking out of your lower orifice.

Because clearly everyone else is wrong except you.

Psst. Don't feed that troll. 

[zambingo]

I adore Aveline. So yeah, totally disagree with the reviewer there. I wish she was romancable. Aveline and Varric are really the only sane companions and you can't romance them. It's so annoying. Instead we get a Naive Blood Mage, a Female Captain Jack, an Emo Wolverine and a Selfish Short-Sighted Healer. I'd much rather have the Noble Hearted Guardswoman or the Charming Storyteller.