454 réponses à ce sujet

[nicethugbert]

Galad22 wrote...

Rykoth wrote...

Another one of these? FFS.

Bioware, don't change your storytelling. Tell the story how you feel it needs to be told, not what some critic thinks.

Dragon Age 2 ain't perfect, but the story is better then DAO IMO

There is no story in DA2.

You fiddle around doing nothing but sidequests for years.

Edit. I hope Bioware takes rps criticism to the heart.

No Story = Galad22 Does't Like The Story.  He special that way.

[nicethugbert]

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

Good read. The last paragraph stands out though: I don't know why Biwoare decided to call this game "Dragon Age II". It has nothing to do with the previous game despite being part of the same universe. If they would have called it "Dragon Age: Rise to Power", people would have complained about preferring to get "Dragon Age 2" first, but it would have been fair to choose a fitting title instead of trying to fool people into thinking that this game they called "Dragon Age 2" only bears the same name to lure them into buying a totally different and, obviously, worse game.

So, each hero, champion, Flemth's Rescued Puppy, etc. gets their own Dragon Age:XYZ game then in Dragon Age 2, what?

Modifié par nicethugbert, 01 avril 2011 - 03:46 .

[Ganondorf2002]

There is one thing I do not understand about the criticism for DA2 and that is why people are upset that the game ended on a cliffhanger. There has been no set in stone ending for DAO or DAA either. Plus this is not really a sequel just part 2. The DA games are like playing a book in books you read about events that are both open ended and closed, very similar to the game. Personally I do think DA2 needs improvment but I was glad to see it not be a DA:O2 which would have been worse. I'm guessing that there will be an expansion(s) and dlc that will take place after the main game which may further the story line. Also it seems that people are to worried about instant gratification when it comes to playing the DA games and not appreciating the fact that the games are based on various events happening in the Age of Dragons in the world of Thedas.

[JaegerBane]

nicethugbert wrote...

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

Good read. The last paragraph stands out though: I don't know why Biwoare decided to call this game "Dragon Age II". It has nothing to do with the previous game despite being part of the same universe. If they would have called it "Dragon Age: Rise to Power", people would have complained about preferring to get "Dragon Age 2" first, but it would have been fair to choose a fitting title instead of trying to fool people into thinking that this game they called "Dragon Age 2" only bears the same name to lure them into buying a totally different and, obviously, worse game.

So, each hero, champion, Flemth's Rescued Puppy, etc. gets their own Dragon Age:XYZ game then in Dragon Age 2, what?

Hugbert, if you're honestly having so much trouble understanding the point, you'd probably be best of taking a break from spamming.

[neppakyo]

Ganondorf2002 wrote...

There is one thing I do not understand about the criticism for DA2 and that is why people are upset that the game ended on a cliffhanger. There has been no set in stone ending for DAO or DAA either. Plus this is not really a sequel just part 2. The DA games are like playing a book in books you read about events that are both open ended and closed, very similar to the game. Personally I do think DA2 needs improvment but I was glad to see it not be a DA:O2 which would have been worse. I'm guessing that there will be an expansion(s) and dlc that will take place after the main game which may further the story line. Also it seems that people are to worried about instant gratification when it comes to playing the DA games and not appreciating the fact that the games are based on various events happening in the Age of Dragons in the world of Thedas.

It wasn't a very good cliffhanger.

It was more along the lines of the last show of the sorprano's. Just cut off, fade to black. credits.

[nicethugbert]

JaegerBane wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

Cyras. Knight-Errant wrote...
When starting DAII the first thing i thought was: "Why haven't they started in Lothering, why start mid-run?"

Uh... what's your issue with that?

The game is not going to fail just because it starts with them on the run instead of them fighting their way out of Lothering.  Those details are irrelevant.  Plus they are full of complications such as the Warden's party and Sten and Varric's story telling where you try out the high level abilities while Varric exagerates your greatness at the time and all sorts of details to get hung up on that all get swallowed up by the dark spawn anyway.  It's pointless to start the story at Lothering.

[Galad22]

nicethugbert wrote...

No Story = Galad22 Does't Like The Story.  He special that way.

I am sorry but good stories usually needs an overall plotline. There is no such thing in DA2.

In first act you have no real reason to do anything,

Second act ends to what feel like an games ending. And quest that somehow relate to that fake ending take what around 1 hour of your time tops, rest are used in usual useless sidequest.

And third act. Same thing around hour of gameplay in anyway relates to plotline in that act. Not to mention that this ending is much worse than in act 2. You can choose side but it have no effect who you have to fight and you can't choose to stay neutral.

So yes I believe I can argue just fine that there was no real overal plotline in this game.

[daywalker03]

JaegerBane wrote...


Same here. Most of all, I hope, during the early stages of development on Dragon age 3, that someone, anyone, actually poses the question 'What did we do right before, and what can we do better?'.

Presumably it never got asked during the dev of DA2. Or if it did, it wasn't answered.

Didn't Mike Laidlaw state in one of the Dev Diaries that they had started on DA2 before DAO was released? If that is the case, they had nothing to compare to except their older games. I also believe that he (or Mark Darrah) said that they (the development team) weren't satisfied with how DAO went and were surprised at how players received it. I've also been fiddling with the 2da files and found that if you reduce the combat animation speed of the party members to about 80%, the game plays almost exactly like Origins; the only difference I see is how quickly the party reacts in combat.

[nicethugbert]

JaegerBane wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

Good read. The last paragraph stands out though: I don't know why Biwoare decided to call this game "Dragon Age II". It has nothing to do with the previous game despite being part of the same universe. If they would have called it "Dragon Age: Rise to Power", people would have complained about preferring to get "Dragon Age 2" first, but it would have been fair to choose a fitting title instead of trying to fool people into thinking that this game they called "Dragon Age 2" only bears the same name to lure them into buying a totally different and, obviously, worse game.

So, each hero, champion, Flemth's Rescued Puppy, etc. gets their own Dragon Age:XYZ game then in Dragon Age 2, what?

Hugbert, if you're honestly having so much trouble understanding the point, you'd probably be best of taking a break from spamming.

Aww, c'mon, let us in on your Super Duper Game Nomenclature System.  Pwwwwwwwwweeeeezzzzzzzzzz

[neppakyo]

nicethugbert wrote...
Aww, c'mon, let us in on your Super Duper Game Nomenclature System.  Pwwwwwwwwweeeeezzzzzzzzzz

So, were you born an ass.hole, or did you have to work really hard at it? Just curious.

Modifié par neppakyo, 01 avril 2011 - 04:01 .

[Kimberly Shaw]

It's pointless to start the story at Lothering.

I disagree. Starting at Lothering even in your family house and just the backyard (where you start fleeing from) could have allowed you some connection to your family and allowed a great chance to interact with your mother and discuss Kirkwall and dad and mages and templars etc.

They also should have followed this with having the PC choose which of Bethany or Carver gets fed to the Ogre and which one lives. These two changes would have had a massive impact on the family plot lines of the game and I think not taken a huge amount of developer time. But since they re-used every darn cave/house/warehouse maybe that is asking way too much to develop a house in Lothering with a backyard and a small quest to go spider hunting before the panic sets in.

[Jman5]

daywalker03 wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...


Same here. Most of all, I hope, during the early stages of development on Dragon age 3, that someone, anyone, actually poses the question 'What did we do right before, and what can we do better?'.

Presumably it never got asked during the dev of DA2. Or if it did, it wasn't answered.

Didn't Mike Laidlaw state in one of the Dev Diaries that they had started on DA2 before DAO was released? If that is the case, they had nothing to compare to except their older games. I also believe that he (or Mark Darrah) said that they (the development team) weren't satisfied with how DAO went and were surprised at how players received it. I've also been fiddling with the 2da files and found that if you reduce the combat animation speed of the party members to about 80%, the game plays almost exactly like Origins; the only difference I see is how quickly the party reacts in combat.

Don't read too much into that. It most likely was very low key outlining of where they wanted to take the series after Origins. They probably were just bouncing around story ideas and characters. There probably was some concept art made pre-origins as well.

Modifié par Jman5, 01 avril 2011 - 04:03 .

[JaegerBane]

nicethugbert wrote...
The game is not going to fail just because it starts with them on the run instead of them fighting their way out of Lothering<snip>

He didn't say the game failed for this. Try to keep up, hugbert, it's not like he was using particularly big words.

[nicethugbert]

Galad22 wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

No Story = Galad22 Does't Like The Story.  He special that way.

I am sorry but good stories usually needs an overall plotline. There is no such thing in DA2.

In first act you have no real reason to do anything,

Second act ends to what feel like an games ending. And quest that somehow relate to that fake ending take what around 1 hour of your time tops, rest are used in usual useless sidequest.

And third act. Same thing around hour of gameplay in anyway relates to plotline in that act. Not to mention that this ending is much worse than in act 2. You can choose side but it have no effect who you have to fight and you can't choose to stay neutral.

So yes I believe I can argue just fine that there was no real overal plotline in this game.

The scene where you go to Bartrand for work and your sibling tells you we need work soon, that didn't clue you in?  So, that Examine Me in Gamlen's hovel where Hawke says, paraphrasing, "This is no place for mother to live in" didn't explain anything to you?  The part where Hawke earns his fortune, and Bat Cave, through his skill of arms, or staff, making a name for himself as a problem solver, doesn't explain anything to you?

You're one of those people who wants to save the world, aren't you?

[JaegerBane]

daywalker03 wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...


Same here. Most of all, I hope, during the early stages of development on Dragon age 3, that someone, anyone, actually poses the question 'What did we do right before, and what can we do better?'.

Presumably it never got asked during the dev of DA2. Or if it did, it wasn't answered.

Didn't Mike Laidlaw state in one of the Dev Diaries that they had started on DA2 before DAO was released? If that is the case, they had nothing to compare to except their older games. I also believe that he (or Mark Darrah) said that they (the development team) weren't satisfied with how DAO went and were surprised at how players received it. I've also been fiddling with the 2da files and found that if you reduce the combat animation speed of the party members to about 80%, the game plays almost exactly like Origins; the only difference I see is how quickly the party reacts in combat.

I'd be highly surprised if this was the real situation. I'm sure they were considering the storylines and direction before DA:O was released, but for the game to have undergone so much development that it was pretty much set before the first one was even released sounds a little absurd.

[neppakyo]

Don't forget DA:O was delayed by 6 months, because they wanted to port it to the consoles. I'm guessing ideas for DA2 happened around that time frame.

[Galad22]

nicethugbert wrote...

The scene where you go to Bartrand for work and your sibling tells you we need work soon, that didn't clue you in?  So, that Examine Me in Gamlen's hovel where Hawke says, paraphrasing, "This is no place for mother to live in" didn't explain anything to you?  The part where Hawke earns his fortune, and Bat Cave, through his skill of arms, or staff, making a name for himself as a problem solver, doesn't explain anything to you?

You're one of those people who wants to save the world, aren't you?

There are games with plots that doesn't involve you saving the world. See Vampire:the masquarade and Planescape Torment.

In those games most things you do have some relevance to what you are trying to do, and those plots are well written.

You can't say neither from DA2 plot.

And no I have no interest saving the world that much, but story must be interesting and well made. If you can't do that without plot involving saving the world, then don't do it.

[Khayness]

nicethugbert wrote...

The scene where you go to Bartrand for work and your sibling tells you we need work soon, that didn't clue you in?  So, that Examine Me in Gamlen's hovel where Hawke says, paraphrasing, "This is no place for mother to live in" didn't explain anything to you?  The part where Hawke earns his fortune, and Bat Cave, through his skill of arms, or staff, making a name for himself as a problem solver, doesn't explain anything to you?

You're one of those people who wants to save the world, aren't you?

There is still no goal to strive forward to through the game until the end. The Acts are disjointed, with very minor contiunity. The game feels like a miniseries, with 3 episodes.

You don't have to save the world in order to know what the hell are you supposed to do. PS:T managed to do that.

[JediHealerCosmin]

neppakyo wrote...

Don't forget DA:O was delayed by 6 months, because they wanted to port it to the consoles. I'm guessing ideas for DA2 happened around that time frame.

That would be anout right I think. There were several ideas in the works regarding the direction of the sequel by the time Origins had gone gold.

[JaegerBane]

Khayness wrote...
You don't have to save the world in order to know what the hell are you supposed to do. PS:T managed to do that.

Mask of the Betrayer did, too. Ironically the talk of 'it's a more personal story' was one of the things that got me stoked for DA2 before it came out.

[Kimberly Shaw]

The scene where you go to Bartrand for work and your sibling tells you we need work soon, that didn't clue you in? So, that Examine Me in Gamlen's hovel where Hawke says, paraphrasing, "This is no place for mother to live in" didn't explain anything to you? The part where Hawke earns his fortune, and Bat Cave, through his skill of arms, or staff, making a name for himself as a problem solver, doesn't explain anything to you?

I'll bite. The expedition inexplicably costs 50gp to start up even though you go back there in act 2 and it's apparently right next to Kirkwall...the 50gp cost is for...the wagons to haul the treasure back? It's not for the maps because you get these for free...I just felt it was pointless.

50 gp is a fortune by the games comments. So you're building a fortune, to spend a fortune, to gain a fortune. Which...yah..okay. Once you get the fortune in the deeproads past the Rock Wraith, it's 3 years later and you have a house but are still wearing the same equipment and level and have the same money in your pocket (the 50gp is a wash). Even though you dont' have a 3rd partner anymore because he just took the idol and left? So your split is only between yourself and Varric.

Okay, at least in BG2 you were getting 20,000 gp to get the thieves guild to help you find Imoen because they won't give you the kind of help you need against the Cowled Mages for cheap. This was much better, in my opinion. Your other option is to get the vampires to help you for cheaper, but it's kind of a morally dubious option (they mimimcked that here with the other dwarf too).

Saving Imoen from Jonaleth wasn't saving the world either, it was just saving your sister at first, but still the plot of raise cash for chapter 2 to begin was done better there.

[Cybermortis]

Ganondorf2002 wrote...

There is one thing I do not understand about the criticism for DA2 and that is why people are upset that the game ended on a cliffhanger. There has been no set in stone ending for DAO or DAA either. Plus this is not really a sequel just part 2. The DA games are like playing a book in books you read about events that are both open ended and closed, very similar to the game. Personally I do think DA2 needs improvment but I was glad to see it not be a DA:O2 which would have been worse. I'm guessing that there will be an expansion(s) and dlc that will take place after the main game which may further the story line. Also it seems that people are to worried about instant gratification when it comes to playing the DA games and not appreciating the fact that the games are based on various events happening in the Age of Dragons in the world of Thedas.

I think the point about the games ending is that we should not be required to buy DLC to get it. Imagine DAO if after the archdemon is killed you are automatically taken back to the party camp and asked to buy a DLC to get the corronation scene. Or if you just had to talk to Arl Eamon and pick 'Support Alistair' or 'Support Anoura' instead of doing the Landsmeet itself...unless you bought a DLC that added that part of the game in.

DLC should add to a game certainly. But it should not feel like you HAVE to get it to get the game you paid for - which so far the feeling DA2 gives...and indeed seems to be telling you when you finish it. I feel like I've bought a novel and discovered the last 1/3rd of the book has been removed and if I want to read the ending I have to pay for the missing chapters.

Even Dan Brown books don't give me that feeling, which is REALLY saying something.

Even the ME2 and DAO DLC don't give you the feeling that you have somehow missed something if you don't get them - which in the case of ME2 is rather ironic since two of them are fairly important for the series.

I'm also not interested in 'instant gratification', I want to feel as if my choices have an impact on the world around me even if that impact is only on the local level. I want to feel that events would not have turned out the exact same way if that flaming ogue had killed Hawke rather than one of my siblings. I want to sit back and revel in a world that feels real within itself, that has its own history and logic too it.

What I get instead is a world in which not only do things end up exactly the same regardless of what I've done, but also has people handing me quests I just turned down. The history is...well so transparant as to be invisible and often lifted directly from DAO for codex entries on the few occasions I get them. The world doesn't change, doesn't feel real and abandons its own logic five seconds after noting something - the case in point being when you point out to Varric that if you had the gold needed in act one you wouldn't need to go into the deep roads. We even get 'Teleportation is not possible using magic', only to find every second mage in the game can...errm...teleport.

[Addai]

Galad22 wrote...
I am sorry but good stories usually needs an overall plotline. There is no such thing in DA2.

Weird, I had no trouble either finding or following the plot line in DA2.  Maybe you should reconsider your declaration of absolutes.

[Galad22]

Addai67 wrote...
Weird, I had no trouble either finding or following the plot line in DA2.  Maybe you should reconsider your declaration of absolutes.

I argued my point in that post that you quoted. Perhaps you should address my points if you wish to argue about this.

But sure that was my opinion obviously, maybe you should try to learn to read behind the lines.

[Khayness]

Addai67 wrote...

Weird, I had no trouble either finding or following the plot line in DA2.  Maybe you should reconsider your declaration of absolutes.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.