454 réponses à ce sujet

[Mavkiel]

I think the basic outline of the plot is there. They just needed to hit the player in the head with it. Instead of just letting it fade into the background as soon as it was uttered.

For example, your desire for power could be to protect yourself or your family (if your a mage, or your sister is around). Its stated that the templar are looking for you. However, your never given a single sign of danger. Which makes it toothless.

Another example is complaining about the hovel your currently living in. For all I know in lothering I lived in a similar hut. So either they need to give me something to compare it to, or drive home how bad the hut is. Criminals, abusive guards, litter? Its just another little thing that they tell me how bad something is, but never drove home the point.

[Cybermortis]

Quite. You can't even argue that Lowtown is more dangerous that Hightown, given that I get jumped by large numbers of plate-wearing Ninja in both locations.

[Mavkiel]

Cybermortis wrote...

Quite. You can't even argue that Lowtown is more dangerous that Hightown, given that I get jumped by large numbers of plate-wearing Ninja in both locations.

Yeah honestly, I never even considered that point. I'd have settled for some cut scenes of people puking outside your house and being mugged. Or having some break-ins in your house  that steal from your chest(Can already hear the crying against that idea). Then having to deal with guards not caring about it. The only thing different from my hut then my mansion is the amount of space I have to walk to make potions 

[zambingo]

[MINOR SPOILER, non-story related]

If you have Dog then in Act 3, I believe, there is a cutscene with Dog protecting your mansion from a lone incompetent burglar. So it is interesting in that you don't get robbed living in the slums, but do when moved up.

[/MINOR SPOILER, non-story related]

I also wish there was more ambiance in the city, it does feel empty of life at times. And again, I say that having enjoyed the game.

Modifié par zambingo, 01 avril 2011 - 05:16 .

[Cybermortis]

 Maybe Hightown gets a better type of Plate-wearing Ninja assassins at night and I just didn't notice? Sort of hard to tell the difference when the slightest tap with a pointed object makes you think everyone in Kirkwall drinks Nitroglycerine rather than water.

Come to think of it that would explain a great deal about the city;

Fereldens are mistrusted because they only drink water, and therefore don't explode.

The city seems so empty because the parts of the population not currently decorating the walls are sitting very, very carefully at home and praying they don't pass wind.

The merchants don't move because if they did...splat! Also explains why they will stand there while you look through their wares, trusting you will pay for what you take. If you don't they'll run after you and blow you up.

All the templars and guards don't come to your help because running anywhere would be suicidal.

The city was rebuilt between act 2 and 3 exactly the same, since they presumably have to rebuild major sections twenty times a week anyway.

Hawke gets to be everyones go-to girl/boy because they are the only person in the city you can be reasonably sure isn't going to blow up during a mission.

The population remains in the same positions for 7 years because moving would be terminal.

Hawke gets attacked so often because the Plate-Ninja's realise anyone running around the city is probably not doing to leave a crater if you startle them.

All of Hawkes companions stay with Hawke because even with the endless combat he/she is less dangerous to be around that anyone else in the city.

You have to solve everyone else's problems because they can't walk across the courtyard without risking life and limb.




Wonderful, most of the environmental and immersion issues solved - Its as Isabella said; there must be something in the water. 

Modifié par Cybermortis, 01 avril 2011 - 05:16 .

[HighlandBerserkr]

I was enjoying the review, until he said Aveline is the worst character, for that he can go **** himself with a narly stick. Along with Verric i think she is the best companion in the game, a true friend till the end.

[randallman]

Ariella wrote...


Second: The review does seem to boil down to: this isn't DAO2. Something I believe is unfair considering we've been told since practically the announcement of DA2 it was NOT going to be a straight up sequel. We were told that by Bioware at every turn, so to say:

Well, irrespective of how many times they 'told' us that DA2 would not be a sequel, it's CALLED DRAGON AGE 2...  As a result, we expect a sequel...  Many of us simply didn't read the comments from the dev team for various reasons including but not limited to not wanting to spoil the game/story, personal time constraints, etc...  we expected a sequel since it was called a sequel.

I have an idea.  I have a 2 ct cubic zirconium here I'd be happy to call a diamond.  I'll tell people who ask that it's not a diamond and I'll make sure that it says 'not a diamond' in the fine print.  Yet, I'll sell it under the guise that it's a diamond.

How's that work out for you?  Sounds like marketing trickery to me, perhaps even criminal.

--Randall

[randallman]

Bitterfoam wrote...

1. Analyses and/or reviews of pieces of art (of which video games are) should not be subjective in nature. But at least the writer recognizes and states that it will be subjective, so that makes him a little less awful.

2. The writer fails right around here: "Of course it's impossible to come to Dragon Age II with such a clean slate. Because at the very least, you're expecting Dragon Age: Origins." For someone making an artistic analysis, expectations - and thus judgments of the product - are based on the product, not what came before. No review on a piece of art, regardless of medium, should be inherently based on what came before, whether a sequel or not. That something deviates from its predecessors might be worth mentioning, however, any deviation must be understood per the object being weighed.

And that's where I stopped reading. Geez, there's so many of these. The blogging age really does wonders for furthering stupidity of language and making a real muckery of all things literary-interpretation.

Yes, yes, go ahead. Bring the flames. By all means.

1)  Reviewing art without bias is literally impossible... Sure, one could do a completely quantative analysis regarding the technical prowess of the artist, but by its very nature art is emotional and analysis of emotional subjects tends to be... emotional

2)  I disagree.  When the artist calls it a sequel, it is the reviewers right and responsibility to compare it to the work for which it is a sequel.  Furthermore, nearly all works of art are compared with past works of art from the same person.  Be it movies, paintings, music, whatever.  I could give examples out the ying-yang, but I'll refrain because I honestly wonder if there's any point in arguing anymore.

--Randall

[Kimberly Shaw]

Cybermortis wrote...

 Maybe Hightown gets a better type of Plate-wearing Ninja assassins at night and I just didn't notice? Sort of hard to tell the difference when the slightest tap with a pointed object makes you think everyone in Kirkwall drinks Nitroglycerine rather than water.

Come to think of it that would explain a great deal about the city;

Fereldens are mistrusted because they only drink water, and therefore don't explode.

The city seems so empty because the parts of the population not currently decorating the walls are sitting very, very carefully at home and praying they don't pass wind.

The merchants don't move because if they did...splat! Also explains why they will stand there while you look through their wares, trusting you will pay for what you take. If you don't they'll run after you and blow you up.

All the templars and guards don't come to your help because running anywhere would be suicidal.

The city was rebuilt between act 2 and 3 exactly the same, since they presumably have to rebuild major sections twenty times a week anyway.

Hawke gets to be everyones go-to girl/boy because they are the only person in the city you can be reasonably sure isn't going to blow up during a mission.

The population remains in the same positions for 7 years because moving would be terminal.

Hawke gets attacked so often because the Plate-Ninja's realise anyone running around the city is probably not doing to leave a crater if you startle them.

All of Hawkes companions stay with Hawke because even with the endless combat he/she is less dangerous to be around that anyone else in the city.

You have to solve everyone else's problems because they can't walk across the courtyard without risking life and limb.




Wonderful, most of the environmental and immersion issues solved - Its as Isabella said; there must be something in the water. 

LOL...I see what you did there. Good job.

[randallman]

nicethugbert wrote...

The lead designer said the article was well written, he didn't say it was a good article.  Keep in mind The Lead Designer makes fantasy games for a living.

Not for long if they keep turning out like DA2 did...

--Randall

[gotthammer]

randallman wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

The lead designer said the article was well written, he didn't say it was a good article.  Keep in mind The Lead Designer makes fantasy games for a living.

Not for long if they keep turning out like DA2 did...

--Randall

 ouch, harsh. 

[Skyplant]

Yeah, the review has it right on the nail.

When I think how much time I spend playing origins, and how I'm already bored of DA2, it makes me sad.

[Alex Kershaw]

nicethugbert wrote...

.....
It would be madness to say that Dragon Age II is a bad game. ....

Am I disappointed by Dragon Age II? Very much so. Does that mean it’s terrible? Absolutely not.What
follows is a critique of where I think Dragon Age II went wrong. Read
without bearing this in mind it could look like an overtly negative
review. It’s not. The game gets much right, with some lovely quests, fun
chats, interesting characters, and moving stories.
....

I'm sure you guys whole heartedly agree with John Walker, especially about the above quote, right?

This time your choice of character is much more defined. You can be a
human rogue, mage or warrior, male or female. This is still a
significant choice, especially if you pick mage, but of course not
nearly so impacting as DAO’s mult-race, multi-class options.

I wonder if he had a problem with DA:O not having as many classes and races as NWN2, NWN1, IWD, BG, BG2, etc?  Bias.

There’s only one opening (which differs slightly depending upon whether you’re a mage or not), and it’s not an interesting one.

That is just his opinion.  It's not anymore important than that.

Which is much the same as DAO’s combat, except executed in such a way that there’s less need for tactics.

That is pure 100% unadulterated crack ho bull****.  It is the same combat with only two differences: it is faster, instead of spell combos you get cross class combos.  How can the same basic thing be not tactical this time but tactical the last time?  It can't.  Walker is bullshtting.

We then get the flashback joke as it’s revealed Varric isn’t telling the
truth, and mystifyingly have to repeat the same dull section, this time
with complaining companions.

Yeah, the first time through, you got to play it in superman mode one shotting everything and testing out the higher level abilities.  The next time you played it normal.  I liked getting a peak at the higher level abilities.  Oh, and Walker is bull****ting.  You're not playing it the exact same way twice.  There are differences.  You play out Varrics tale then you play out how it really happened.  And, so, you do a one or two encounters over again under different conditions.  Wow, major game breaker dude.  Whiner.

It ends in a fight that, well, I was doing just fine at that’s
interrupted by the arrive of the Witch of the Wilds, Flemeth, in the
form of a dragon. She asks for a mysterious favour, and then in some
unexplained way helps you get to Kirkwall.

Bull****.  My party had taken damage and run out of mana/stamina when the next wave showed up and there was no end in sight to the darkspawn.  Do you actually need en extra 30 seconds and dead party members and dead leandra and dead wesley to figure out the invitable? 

Flemeth can smoke a horde of darkspawn in the time it takes Hawke to kill one.  She's the size of a bus and can fly but Walker can't imagine how she got them to Kirkwall?  What a patronizing jackass.

How thick and unimaginative and over payed can one be?

The rest of Walker's **** fest goes along the same lines but I have better things to do than devote my time to it.  So, I'll leave the rest as an excerise for ths romper room.

Have fun kids.

DAO metacritic score: 91
DA2 metacritic score: 82

DA2 = lowest ever rated Bioware RPG
/argument

[Skyplant]

Review didn't mention the fact that you can't customise companion's armour, which I personally thought was horrific, genuinely thought it was a glitch at first.

[Ronin2006]

Alex Kershaw wrote...

DAO metacritic score: 91
DA2 metacritic score: 82

DA2 = lowest ever rated Bioware RPG
/argument

That is an absolutely hilarious retort.  People will still find a way to disagree and argue, but it doesn't stop it from being hilarious.

Modifié par Ronin2006, 01 avril 2011 - 07:06 .

[Skyplant]

Ronin2006 wrote...

Alex Kershaw wrote...

DAO metacritic score: 91
DA2 metacritic score: 82

DA2 = lowest ever rated Bioware RPG
/argument

That is an absolutely hilarious retort.  People will still find a way to disagree and argue, but it doesn't stop it from being hilarious.

I don't think there is any denying that origins is vastly superior to DA:2

I mean, they nerfed skills and attributes, and that's basically what an RPG is.

mage: increase mana and willpower

Warrior: increase strength and constitiution and willpower

Rogue: Increase cunning dexterity and willpower.

Why bother with leveling up at all/

There were no finishing moves either.

Modifié par Skyplant, 01 avril 2011 - 07:11 .

[Dagiz]

Alex Kershaw wrote...

DAO metacritic score: 91
DA2 metacritic score: 82

DA2 = lowest ever rated Bioware RPG
/argument

Yep, very true.  HOWEVER...it's not the lowest rated RPG.  Okay, if you add in all RPG's that would include Jade Empire and the average there was 81  And technically it was classified as an action RPG...so it's included.  Now, the big difference is in the user scores which of course there is a lot of hate...more so than the metacritics themselves.  I think most of it has to do with it no being a direct sequal to DA:O. 

And yes I am being nit picky, feel free to smack me with a trout.   

[Cybermortis]

Ronin2006 wrote...

Alex Kershaw wrote...

DAO metacritic score: 91
DA2 metacritic score: 82

DA2 = lowest ever rated Bioware RPG
/argument

That is an absolutely hilarious retort.  People will still find a way to disagree and argue, but it doesn't stop it from being hilarious.

I pointed out that DA2 has a two and a half star rating on Amazon, while DAO and ME have three and a half and ME2 four.

I was told Amazon reviews were unreliable and biased. *Sighs*

[Conduit0]

optimates0193 wrote...

Conduit0 wrote...

optimates0193 wrote...

I wanted to comment on this part here. The combat absolutely requires less tactics, regardless of the difficultly level. You are correct in that the basics have essentially changed in those two ways. What you've missed (or ignored) is the drastic difference in the design of encounters.

Nearly every fight has waves that spawn in on top of you at random locations. This means you can't possibly strategically position and move your characters,. The only feasible strategy is to keep everyone lumped together in a blob and focus fire bad guys down. Not to mention some of the special abilities of lieutenants. I want to form a chokepoint with my two warriors to keep my mage safe? Oh, that assassin just teleported right past everyone and backstabbed him anyway. I want to stealth my rogue in behind the enemy line and take out that mage? Oh, the mage just bubbled up and/or teleported away. These things completely change the way the game plays, and not for the better.

Were there winning stratgies in DA:O? Absolutely. But at least in that game I had the freedom to choose how I'd approach the fight and the game rewarded me for taking a tactical approach. In DA:2, my only choice is to keep everyone in a blob moving together and focus fire targets. There's not even a point in using cross class combos really, because the speed of the combat is so fast that everything dies pretty quick anyway.  When you realize you're going to be doing the same thing fight after fight after fight, it starts to become boring.  

Now I just want to preface this responce by stating that I think the wave mechanic was massively overused and makes many encounters needlessly tedious.

However, I hate to be the one to break it to you, but there was nothing "strategic" about the combat in DA:O. Abusing a hopelessly simplistic enemy AI is not strategy by any stretch of the imagination. Every encounter in DA:O fit one of two formats. Format 1, choke point, draw enemy to choke point, drop overpowered aoe, go make sandwich, return to collect loot. Format 2, no choke point, send in your virtually immortal tank who couldn't lose a enemy even if he was farting mustard gas, while the rest of the party kills everything in sight without fear of ever coming under attack. And yes, this holds true even on nightmare.

I'm sorry that DA:O made you feel like a tactical genius because its encounter mechanics screamed, "ABUSE ME". While DA2 forces you to adapt to a changing battlefield, actually requires you to actively protect your squishier companions, and forces you to use control and aggro management abilities to keep fights under control. But I guess you're right, that does make it a far less tactical game.

I feel like we must have been playing two different games or something.

To say there was nothing strategic about DA:O combat is disengious at best. Were some encouters abusable? Abo****ely. Was the combat perfect? Not at all. But there were plenty of fights that required you to actually think. Not every fight was the same. There was enough variation that you had to think from time to time to succeed. Dropping AOE's required careful placement because of friendly fire, otherwise you could end up doing as much damage to your group as you did to the enemies.

And tanks that had permathreat? Didn't really experience that.  My dual wield warrior and healer would manage to pull threat at times. In some fights, I would have to split my group and have my dps warrior off tank if my tank was being overwhelmed, which would happen. Archers were extremely deadly. In some fights, I would have the tank grab the melee's attention, have my mage and rogue assist the tank, while my dps warrior went to deal with the archers. The point is, I disagree with your assertion that there was only two ways to approach a fight. You had many different options which would work with varying degrees of success depending on that particular encounter.

DA2 doesn't require me to adapt at all, so I really don't understand what you're referring to. I ALREADY KNOW what's going to happen. I'm going to get surrouned by enemies after the first wave goes down. Enemies will appear out of nowhere. There's no surprise. There's no tactics necessary. I don't need to adapt to anything. I just need to keep everyone grouped together. Aggro is initially  and strongly determined by proximity. All of the main aggro abilities are AOE and really, you just need to run the bravery aura with the upgrade while keeping the group together.  There's no point in placing anyone anywhere as a result. Just lump 'em up and lay the smack down.

I don't even to worry about prioritzing my targets most of the time! A group of archers shooting at me? Who cares? They do comparable damage to melee now and lost their special moves. Plus, with the far more cramped spaces you're fighting in, your blob of heroes can get to them no problem. There's a Coeterie mage over there? No point in me really going after him yet, cause he's just going to bubble up and become invulnerable while I slaughter everyone else. Assassin running around? No point in me going out of my way to kill him first or CC him, cause he's just going to  teleport and backstab whoever he feels like.

These are horrible mechanics because the player has no way to stop them  In DA:O, if an ogre picked up my tank and started to pound him in the ground, guess what? I can do something about that! I need to have my character's use interupts or stuns and the ogre would drop the target. Or  I could try to heal through it, if my stuns were on cool down, although there was no guarentee of success. Same thing when a dragon would decide to turn my rogue into a meal or when a spider would pin Sten to the ground and start to eat him.

DA:2's version of this? Assassin disapears into thin air to backstab my mage. *shrug* Tough luck. If the mage survives, suck down a potion and zerg 'em down. Ogre telegraphs a bull rush attack? Take two steps to the right.

So, c'mon. I really don't see how anyone can say with a straight face that DA2 requires the same level of strategy and thought that DA:O did. DA:O's combat is not perfect by any stretch and it does have it's flaws, but to say it's as simplistic as DA:2's combat? That's just not right.

Set. The. Game. Higher. Than. Casual.

Thats the only legitimate responce to this drivel.

[naughty99]

This was a great article and a very interesting read.

However, the time frame for my first playthrough of DAO, without reloading saves to try multiple endings, etc., was somewhere in the range of 60 hours.

My first playthrough for DA2 is shaping up to be in the range of 150 hours. This has a lot to do with the fact that combat is much more balanced in DA2 and you actually have to think carefully and plan each character actions in Nightmare (at least I do - I have seen some youtube videos of people playing Nightmare without pausing, I can't do it.)

[Ariella]

Kimberly Shaw wrote...

The scene where you go to Bartrand for work and your sibling tells you we need work soon, that didn't clue you in? So, that Examine Me in Gamlen's hovel where Hawke says, paraphrasing, "This is no place for mother to live in" didn't explain anything to you? The part where Hawke earns his fortune, and Bat Cave, through his skill of arms, or staff, making a name for himself as a problem solver, doesn't explain anything to you?

I'll bite. The expedition inexplicably costs 50gp to start up even though you go back there in act 2 and it's apparently right next to Kirkwall...the 50gp cost is for...the wagons to haul the treasure back? It's not for the maps because you get these for free...I just felt it was pointless.

Maybe it's because archeology is a hobby of mine, or maybe it's because I've spent to much time with ivory tower crazies who go spend their summers in Turkey digging up old ruins, but I had no problem with the idea of needing money to finance an expedition like the one Bartrand planned. Going to need food and other suplies that are going to survive the trip, people or animals to carry them, and if animals you need food for them too and people to handle them. Equipment to dig if needed. It's darn expensive to finance something like this in the real world. There's a reason why archeologists and antropologists are always looking for grant money.

I can't remember at the moment but it's either Bartrand or Varric that makes the point that the target is a week below the surface. That kind of time and distance alone means you're going to be hauling a lot of stuff to survive, add to that guards to deal with darkspawn and other vermin you're going to find in the deep roads and 50 sovereigns is a bargain price.

[Kimberly Shaw]

@Ariella...I'll give you that. However, you go back to the same place in Act 2 to rescue the dwarf brothers without so much as a thought to expenses or food or animals or gathering money.

[Jymm]

OOh.  I have to agree with an awful lot of this article.  Like many here, I think Aveline's undertstated manner is a feature, not a bug.  The author largely glazes over combat and given the preface (game is good, but here's why it disappoints) then again I agree.  The combat is IMO more fun than DAO but still tactical so long as you play on Hard or better.  Though the damned waves do kill the positioning in an absolutely maddening way.  You _can_ set aside well written dialog and fun combat and focus in on what disappoints. 

Fans of BW games are going to focus on story and there are places it really feels forced and thin.  The 'real' choices are very few this time around and the 'false' choices are wretchedly transparent compared to their better efforts.  I still blame a lot of it on the short development time.  And that reinforces one of the core points here.  Its not a true sequel.  A true sequel would be fully developed and show the hallmarks we expect of Bioware, even if it contained some of the other sweeping changes like combat that have never been core to what Bioware does.

[randallman]

Ariella wrote...

Maybe it's because archeology is a hobby of mine, or maybe it's because I've spent to much time with ivory tower crazies who go spend their summers in Turkey digging up old ruins, but I had no problem with the idea of needing money to finance an expedition like the one Bartrand planned. Going to need food and other suplies that are going to survive the trip, people or animals to carry them, and if animals you need food for them too and people to handle them. Equipment to dig if needed. It's darn expensive to finance something like this in the real world. There's a reason why archeologists and antropologists are always looking for grant money.

I can't remember at the moment but it's either Bartrand or Varric that makes the point that the target is a week below the surface. That kind of time and distance alone means you're going to be hauling a lot of stuff to survive, add to that guards to deal with darkspawn and other vermin you're going to find in the deep roads and 50 sovereigns is a bargain price.

Yes, but why is my Hawke even compelled to bother with a deep roads expedition?  There's no driving reason to do so besides the desire to make money...  What if my Hawke character isn't driven by capitistic gains?   Why am I bothering to front 50sov for an expedition with a potentially questionable ROI?