665 réponses à ce sujet

[DanteCousland]

Contray to your popular beleif of peop;e crying plothole whenever they see something they either "Don't understand or don't like"  that doesn't mean that Dragon Age 2 isn't riddled with some very big story flaws. Namely Plotholes and retcons. I was hoping we could make a thread and compile all the plotholes for the devs to see and comment. I'll start.

Lelianas Miraculous revival. Yes you can do it, it's your game but for those who killed her it makes no sense and before yoyu go "But you was in a room full of magic dust L0L" let me mention she only turns on you if you DESTROY the ashes and take what you want for Eamon...Also when I killed her i did a decapitation move on her, pretty sure it's tricky to heal that.

The Timing doesn't add up. It takes only a small amount of common sense to realise that when you arrive at Kirkwall the events of Awakening should be happening. DAA BEGAN 6 months after origins. Yet you meet Anders and Sandal 1 year and the maxinum of 2-3 months (although 2-3 months is a stretch for the flight from ostagar/ lothering to 2 weeks on a ship and 4 days in the gallows...)... This isn't even mentioning Sandal being in Witch Hunt which was 6 months or soafte awakening correct, by then he is definitely in Kirkwall.
Discuss and add .

[Beerfish]

What the hell is the point of this. This has been discussed again and again. There are retcons and plot holes in the game at parts. Quit bleating about it over and over. Go to the cesspool forums and post this there. (And what is with the idiocy of ever man and his dog posting to Dave Gaider personally.)

[DanteCousland]

To get our point heard, I haven't seen the mods directly ocmment on their plotholes apart from the above response of us either not liking or understanding something. I'd at least like them to say yeh we make mistakes sorry . Also we're posting to David Gaider since he's the lead writer and so is thus mainly responsible for the plot, the good bits and the bad and also because he seems quite active compared to other writers on this forum.

[Lithuasil]

I've heard this a few times now, but where is actually detailed how long the first blight took? Because I've only read *less then a year*, and if it was a whole year, do we count from when Cailan started fighting the things, or from Ostagar? If we count from Ostagar, why did the archdemon camp in Lothering for at least ten month?

[Lord Gremlin]

Always nice when someone pointing out the obvious. It's all just sad though. I loved DAO and expansions...
@Beerfish: It's commonly assumed that David Gaider is responsible for everything in Dragon Age. Now if you excuse me I need to find my pitchfork and tinfoil hat.

[DanteCousland]

I don't see a problem with trying to get the writers to discuss the negative aspects of their game as well as the good and I think the plotholes are a negative part of the game.. Also see my above point for why alot of people ask DG .

[LobselVith8]

Beerfish wrote...

What the hell is the point of this. This has been discussed again and again. There are retcons and plot holes in the game at parts. Quit bleating about it over and over. Go to the cesspool forums and post this there. (And what is with the idiocy of ever man and his dog posting to Dave Gaider personally.)

Is there anyone in particular you had in mind when you stated this?

[Blacklash93]

Doesn't Witch Hunt take place 2 years after Origins? And yet just after the blight in DA2 Bodahn speaks like Sandal has already been to the circle.

Edit: My bad. Bodahn actually doesn't say it in the first act. It makes sense.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 31 mars 2011 - 08:48 .

[Pileyourbodies]

The timings are off thats the only plot hole and since timings were never really firmly established its not a real plot hole just something we're not sure of. Leliana is the retcon. you don't cite a reason for poor story telling. Troll post is fail.

[ZombiePowered]

In response to Leliana's miraculous revival, don't your companions get "killed" all the time? It isn't so unbelievable that in the final resting place of Andraste's ashes--a place clearly touched by extremely powerful magic, that a faithful servant of the Maker murdered in defense of his bride's remains wouldn't survive a stabbing. And yes, she may have been decapitated in your game, but can you seriously expect Bioware to change important parts of the Dragon Age story based on whether or not your game triggered a special death animation?

[AlexXIV]

We have not seen Bioware commenting on Anders being in Kirkwall, which I find odd. They could just get here and say why. Or how it was possible. All we get is silence or implications that we don't understand something. If some people can ignore plotholes, good for them. But some people rather have at least some integrity in their games. What we get is rather the feeling that Bioware does not care, and act in the fashion 'What do we care about what we said yesterday?'. I would at least like to see a sort of timeline of what happend and when.

As for the topic of the OP, I don't know where to start really. It would be easier to list the things that actually make sense without asking the player to just ignore half of the things that happen. My main concern is that Hawke's motivation goes overboard after Act1. Hawke got rich, lost the family, what is the point of saving Kirkwall from the Qunari and solving the Mage-Templar conflict. Obviously Hawke is not a Warden or Jedi Knight or even City Guard or anything that should motivate somebody to constantly stick his/her neck out for others.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 31 mars 2011 - 08:44 .

[Addai]

DanteCousland wrote...

To get our point heard, I haven't seen the mods directly ocmment on their plotholes apart from the above response of us either not liking or understanding something. I'd at least like them to say yeh we make mistakes sorry . Also we're posting to David Gaider since he's the lead writer and so is thus mainly responsible for the plot, the good bits and the bad and also because he seems quite active compared to other writers on this forum.

Right, so because the devs are gracious enough to post here on occasion you think your opinion deserves their personal attention?  That's just dandy.  And presumably also because it's so golden that it must have its own thread rather than be tacked on as a post in one of the gazillion other threads just like it.

[Alexander1136]

Anders says that the blight was ended with the assistance of two mages
one of them an apostate. obviously the one is morrigan and the other is
wynne. but the thing is i killed wynne sooo wtf../../../images/forum/emoticons/angry.png  should there be a dialouge tweak or is this just going to slip by as a bug.

i made a thread w/ this then saw this and thought id add too it. btw this i feel that this is constructive and not hey you suck.

[Darth Krytie]

This forum so does not need yet another boring post of pointless whinging. Seriously, every single complaint has been posted before, noted, and discussed. The writers do not need to address you directly, even if you do think you are the most special of the special snowflake brigade.

[Wulfram]

Origins timeline has always been totally screwed up, so I can't bring myself to be upset about DA2 messing with it a bit more. Hopefully with DA2 having more clearly established dates, future titles will be able to keep things straight.

[Lithuasil]

I'm still not convinced the timing is actually off - do we have some sort of official timeline? Because it only doesn't fit, if we assume the blight *began* with Ostagar. But several battles had been fought by then. For all we know, they start counting from the first time a grey warden has a nightmare, and the blight was going for eight month, before Ostagar happened.

[Alexander1136]

ZombiePowered wrote...

In response to Leliana's miraculous revival, don't your companions get "killed" all the time? It isn't so unbelievable that in the final resting place of Andraste's ashes--a place clearly touched by extremely powerful magic, that a faithful servant of the Maker murdered in defense of his bride's remains wouldn't survive a stabbing. And yes, she may have been decapitated in your game, but can you seriously expect Bioware to change important parts of the Dragon Age story based on whether or not your game triggered a special death animation?

Well actually they get knocked unconscious... and dont you need the ashes plus a ritual hence the mage present at the arls side holding his hands up. I personally think that bioware felt that a majority of people didnt kill leliana and they wanted to use her again understandable and respectable for bringing back a loved character, i would like to see some explanation for if you did kill her, maybe you also just knocked her out.

[AlexXIV]

Lithuasil wrote...

I'm still not convinced the timing is actually off - do we have some sort of official timeline? Because it only doesn't fit, if we assume the blight *began* with Ostagar. But several battles had been fought by then. For all we know, they start counting from the first time a grey warden has a nightmare, and the blight was going for eight month, before Ostagar happened.

I know Wynne once commented to the Warden 'it has been almost one year, hasn't it?'. This happened somewhere between the middle of the game or the end, depends when you talk to her. There is also the thing with Oghren's son, which suggests from Orzammar to Vigil's Keep were at least 9 months.

[AlexXIV]

I think the obvious reason for the retcons (Leliana, Oghren, Anders, Justice) is saving time and effort. Making an Anders like character from scrap in DA2 would probably have been too troublesome. So they used someone everyone knows already from Awakenings. Developing a character in a game takes time, the player needs to 'learn to know them' and get a connection. So the short way is to use characters that are already established.

[Lithuasil]

If there's actually a year, starting count at ostagar, what stalled the darkspawn progress in lothering for roughly 360 days?

[Maria Caliban]

Beerfish wrote...

...And what is with the idiocy of ever man and his dog posting to Dave Gaider personally?

No clue. My favorite so far is the thread addressed to David that complains about companion inventory being static.

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

What about the fact everyone ignores you when you're an apostate? I couldn't understand why Carver and mum were so worried about me. Clearly it's fine.

[mesmerizedish]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

...And what is with the idiocy of ever man and his dog posting to Dave Gaider personally?

No clue. My favorite so far is the thread addressed to David that complains about companion inventory being static.

All he had to do was write the story in such a way as to force the gameplay devs to accomodate our whims. It all goes back to Mr. Gaider failing to plan ahead.

[AlexXIV]

From Ostagar to Lothering can only have been a couple of weeks, a month at best. 'We have been running since Ostagar', that's what carver says. And it just doesn't sound like they were running for months.

I'd say Orzammar and the Deep roads has been the longest part. Maybe 1-2 months. Then the sacred ashes probably also a month, the circle a couple of weeks. I think one week back and forth travel. And maybe twice if you save Connor and his mom ... then brecillian forest probably bit over a month. And maybe a month in Denerim? Not to mention all the side quests and other unimportant stuff the Warden liked to do rather than taking care of the Blight. They may even had 6 weeks vacation in Orlais.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 31 mars 2011 - 09:01 .

[Lithuasil]

That's not what I meant. Afaik, the warden is out for 'a couple of days', then manages to reach lothering just ahead of the blight since the village gets destroyed the moment you leave. But the darkspawn never move past that.
Now, Ferelden isn't that big, and none of the things the warden does actually take much time. If we assume, the darkspawn all walk backwards, hopping on one leg, and there's some offscreen resistance, having the blight take like two month between Ostagar and Denerim might just so slide, without completely shattering the willing suspension of disbilief. Anything beyond that, is plain ridiculous.