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Plot holes, retcons and poor storytelling- Sorry David Gaider


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#226
Pyrate_d

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I'm not willing to accept resurrected characters unless there's a REALLY GOOD EXPLANATION. As an example, if you plant a bomb in a character's home and see it go off, I can accept that you later learn that the character wasn't at home. It's a definite possibility.

There is absolutely no REALLY GOOD EXPLANATION that can explain for Leliana and Zevran being alive. This indicates to me that Bioware never planned to bring these characters back when they designed their deaths--and yeah, that's retcon.

#227
Redneck1st

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David Gaider wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...
Right.
David Gaider said..."Don't expect to receive an explanation anytime soon".
In other words, "We don't have an explanation, so stop complaining and get over it".


Err... no. It means it's not something that's going to be explained on a forum thread.



Well now since it  wont be explained in a forum thread wonder if thats to say that there will be a DA3 release in the future that will explain it?Image IPB Also anyone know if they are going to release a patch to fix some of the things in the game like Merril's final quest and the renerating abitlity to name a couple of things for which need fixed.

#228
TGFKAMAdmaX

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Redneck1st wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...
Right.
David Gaider said..."Don't expect to receive an explanation anytime soon".
In other words, "We don't have an explanation, so stop complaining and get over it".


Err... no. It means it's not something that's going to be explained on a forum thread.



Well now since it  wont be explained in a forum thread wonder if thats to say that there will be a DA3 release in the future that will explain it?Image IPB Also anyone know if they are going to release a patch to fix some of the things in the game like Merril's final quest and the renerating abitlity to name a couple of things for which need fixed.

i have heard that there will be a fix in about two weeks. but that was specualtion.

#229
Fireblader70

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But hey, look on the bright side, at least they acknowledge your choice in-game (if those screenshots are genuine, which I don't see why not).

This isn't Awakening all over again.

#230
Torax

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Patching for the Consoles appears more of the slower part. I am so glad I am a PC player. Just for the Add ons. Plus getting patches faster heh.

#231
just.a.dude

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Pyrate_d wrote...

There is absolutely no REALLY GOOD EXPLANATION that can explain for Leliana and Zevran being alive. This indicates to me that Bioware never planned to bring these characters back when they designed their deaths--and yeah, that's retcon.


You know, you are right. I can not think of one single movie, book or story where someone has been left for dead. Not one...

There does not need to be a good explaination because "left for dead" works fine in both situations. Now if King Cailian turns up breathing without an explainations, thats a retcon.

#232
Lord Gremlin

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David Gaider wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...
Right.
David Gaider said..."Don't expect to receive an explanation anytime soon".
In other words, "We don't have an explanation, so stop complaining and get over it".


Err... no. It means it's not something that's going to be explained on a forum thread.

May I ask then, are there any large DLC or any such new DA content planned to be released anytime soon?

Ugh, sounds wrong. Anyway, if we aren't getting an explanation on a forum thread, are we getting it by any other means anytime soon? Sorry for being persistent, but I'm not getting any younger. Those news from kotaku.com of an old lady who wanted to play latest installment of Dragon Quest but died before it's release... Haunt me.

#233
lorvincent

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Pyrate_d wrote...

I'm not willing to accept resurrected characters unless there's a REALLY GOOD EXPLANATION. As an example, if you plant a bomb in a character's home and see it go off, I can accept that you later learn that the character wasn't at home. It's a definite possibility.

There is absolutely no REALLY GOOD EXPLANATION that can explain for Leliana and Zevran being alive. This indicates to me that Bioware never planned to bring these characters back when they designed their deaths--and yeah, that's retcon.


There is a difference between a retcon and establishing a main storyline...

They may just throw in a lame explanation to appease the fanbase somewhat, or maybe it will be a good explanation.  The above posts seem to suggest that may happen.

I really don't see how it matters very much, as the story is great regardless.  I have read many stories with zero plotholes that still bored me to death and they read like a grade 3 english text.

If you really want an explanation for Leliana, the best I can give you is this:

In the Temple of Andraste, the veil is thin.  The deeper you go into that old ruin, the thinner the veil becomes.  Your mind becomes an open playground in the fade for spirits to twist reality, and your darkest inner secrets begin to get exposed as you face the Gaurdian, an important person from your past, and eventually yourself.  Upon finally reaching the ashes, the veil is practically non-existant.  You may as well have crossed over to the fade here, where you draw a pinch of this magic ash and bring it back to the world we live in called Thedas.  Since the completion of the Gaurdian's task, and the arrival of a worthy soul to venture to Andraste's ashes, the veil has begun to repair itself, separating the temple from the fade.

Does your Warden trust his eyes when all around him are ghosts and twisted reflections of the world?

Modifié par lorvincent, 03 avril 2011 - 10:15 .


#234
David Gaider

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Pyrate_d wrote...
There is absolutely no REALLY GOOD EXPLANATION that can explain for Leliana and Zevran being alive.


Zevran is not alive if you killed him. His appearance, for some, is a bug that will hopefully be fixed soon. As for Leliana, we have an explanation-- whether or not you think it's a good one will be up to you.

Lord Gremlin wrote...
May I ask then, are there any large DLC or any such new DA content planned to be released anytime soon?


Sorry, but even if I wanted to I couldn't comment on this.

Modifié par David Gaider, 03 avril 2011 - 10:16 .


#235
Lord Gremlin

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just.a.dude wrote...

Pyrate_d wrote...

There is absolutely no REALLY GOOD EXPLANATION that can explain for Leliana and Zevran being alive. This indicates to me that Bioware never planned to bring these characters back when they designed their deaths--and yeah, that's retcon.


You know, you are right. I can not think of one single movie, book or story where someone has been left for dead. Not one...

There does not need to be a good explaination because "left for dead" works fine in both situations. Now if King Cailian turns up breathing without an explainations, thats a retcon.

Well, Cailian's been stuffed with arrows, and we all know that it's just a flesh wound
Image IPB

#236
Nialos

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Lord Gremlin wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...
Right.
David Gaider said..."Don't expect to receive an explanation anytime soon".
In other words, "We don't have an explanation, so stop complaining and get over it".


Err... no. It means it's not something that's going to be explained on a forum thread.

May I ask then, are there any large DLC or any such new DA content planned to be released anytime soon?

Ugh, sounds wrong. Anyway, if we aren't getting an explanation on a forum thread, are we getting it by any other means anytime soon? Sorry for being persistent, but I'm not getting any younger. Those news from kotaku.com of an old lady who wanted to play latest installment of Dragon Quest but died before it's release... Haunt me.


Probably not - expect it to be revealed in game format. Maybe book. As for the old lady, she had been waiting fifteen YEARS for that. Poor woman, but I doubt we'll be waiting fifteen years for an answer.

At least. I hope not. :mellow:

#237
The Angry One

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Well, Cailan was also cremated.

...

Cailan's reanimated ashes for DA3 companion!

#238
Pyrate_d

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just.a.dude wrote...

You know, you are right. I can not think of one single movie, book or story where someone has been left for dead. Not one...

What is your logic here? That because many books, movies, and stories are sloppy, DA2 can be sloppy too? Come on.

As for the explanation being forthcoming, I can't wait.

#239
Torax

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The Angry One wrote...

Well, Cailan was also cremated.

...

Cailan's reanimated ashes for DA3 companion!


Cailan's pile of wolf feces.

#240
Nialos

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The Angry One wrote...

Well, Cailan was also cremated.

...

Cailan's reanimated ashes for DA3 companion!


His dialogue will involve helpful tips about soil enrichment.

#241
Torax

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Nialos wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Well, Cailan was also cremated.

...

Cailan's reanimated ashes for DA3 companion!



His dialogue will involve helpful tips about soil enrichment.

Just imagine the insight if you fed him to the wolves.

Modifié par Torax, 03 avril 2011 - 10:21 .


#242
The Angry One

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Torax wrote...

Nialos wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Well, Cailan was also cremated.

...

Cailan's reanimated ashes for DA3 companion!



His dialogue will involve helpful tips about soil enrichment.

Just imagine the insight if you fed him to the wolves.


Cailan being fed to the wolves will be retconned due to the importance of Cailan's Reanimated Ashes no matter what your choice.
There will be many topics here demanding to know why Cailan's Reanimated Wolf Feces are not an alternate companion.

#243
Lord Gremlin

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The Angry One wrote...

Well, Cailan was also cremated.

...

Cailan's reanimated ashes for DA3 companion!

Well, I've just left him to rot.
Come to think of it, you could cremate him, feed him to wolves or leave where he was. So, he comes back as ash wraith, skeleton or black knight respectively.
Not the best companion idea. I'm still waiting for enchanter called Tim.

#244
sheppard7

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You know what we will see in DA3....


Wait for it....


Ashley or Kaiden (whoever supposedly died in ME1). The person didn't die but traveled through time and space and will appear in DA3. And if you killed Wrex, he will show up too. Wrex would have owned Meredith so he would laugh at the so-called dangers in DA.

And Revan will appear too. We haven't seen him since KotOR (not counting books and such). Revan gets called in because the main boss in DA3 will be Malek with Calo.

Until DA2, I would have never thought this about Bioware and their lack of death meaning anything. Now everyone comes back.

Modifié par sheppard7, 03 avril 2011 - 10:26 .


#245
Redneck1st

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TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

Redneck1st wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...
Right.
David Gaider said..."Don't expect to receive an explanation anytime soon".
In other words, "We don't have an explanation, so stop complaining and get over it".


Err... no. It means it's not something that's going to be explained on a forum thread.



Well now since it  wont be explained in a forum thread wonder if thats to say that there will be a DA3 release in the future that will explain it?Image IPB Also anyone know if they are going to release a patch to fix some of the things in the game like Merril's final quest and the renerating abitlity to name a couple of things for which need fixed.

i have heard that there will be a fix in about two weeks. but that was specualtion.


Well now is this just for the Merril quest or will it include the regeneration aspects of Items not regenerating as well? 

#246
Lord Gremlin

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Torax wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Well, Cailan was also cremated.

...

Cailan's reanimated ashes for DA3 companion!


Cailan's pile of wolf feces.

I see. Expect somthing like this then
Image IPB
If you want a character back, there is always a way.

#247
Torax

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Damn you Lord Gremlin. I'm gonna have to watch that movie today.

#248
TGFKAMAdmaX

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Redneck1st wrote...

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

Redneck1st wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...
Right.
David Gaider said..."Don't expect to receive an explanation anytime soon".
In other words, "We don't have an explanation, so stop complaining and get over it".


Err... no. It means it's not something that's going to be explained on a forum thread.



Well now since it  wont be explained in a forum thread wonder if thats to say that there will be a DA3 release in the future that will explain it?Image IPB Also anyone know if they are going to release a patch to fix some of the things in the game like Merril's final quest and the renerating abitlity to name a couple of things for which need fixed.

i have heard that there will be a fix in about two weeks. but that was specualtion.


Well now is this just for the Merril quest or will it include the regeneration aspects of Items not regenerating as well? 

no specifics as to what will be fixed that i can recall. but it was mentioned that over 100 issues will be fixed.

#249
Torax

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Keep in mind that they also have to work out it out between Sony and Microsoft for the respective Consoles. I don't know how much that would play part it in on top of just developing a fix in the first place.

#250
Redneck1st

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TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

Redneck1st wrote...

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

Redneck1st wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...
Right.
David Gaider said..."Don't expect to receive an explanation anytime soon".
In other words, "We don't have an explanation, so stop complaining and get over it".


Err... no. It means it's not something that's going to be explained on a forum thread.



Well now since it  wont be explained in a forum thread wonder if thats to say that there will be a DA3 release in the future that will explain it?Image IPB Also anyone know if they are going to release a patch to fix some of the things in the game like Merril's final quest and the renerating abitlity to name a couple of things for which need fixed.

i have heard that there will be a fix in about two weeks. but that was specualtion.


Well now is this just for the Merril quest or will it include the regeneration aspects of Items not regenerating as well? 

no specifics as to what will be fixed that i can recall. but it was mentioned that over 100 issues will be fixed.


Well now I guess that we'll just have to wait and see what all it fixes when it is released then. Thanks for the information. As for me I'm off to play DA2 for a bit betfore I have to go to work.<G>