665 réponses à ce sujet

[TGFKAMAdmaX]

Torax wrote...

Keep in mind that they also have to work out it out between Sony and Microsoft for the respective Consoles. I don't know how much that would play part it in on top of just developing a fix in the first place.

i think they are testing the patches and making sure it doesnt introduce new problems. then they will move on to working it out will microsoft and sony. two weeks i think is under the best conditions. probably more.

[sheppard7]

David Gaider wrote...

Pyrate_d wrote...
There is absolutely no REALLY GOOD EXPLANATION that can explain for Leliana and Zevran being alive.

Zevran is not alive if you killed him. His appearance, for some, is a bug that will hopefully be fixed soon. As for Leliana, we have an explanation-- whether or not you think it's a good one will be up to you.

Lord Gremlin wrote...
May I ask then, are there any large DLC or any such new DA content planned to be released anytime soon?

Sorry, but even if I wanted to I couldn't comment on this.

Lelianna has more than one. Not just if she died but if you didn't even get her at all too. Then she is referred to as THE Lelianna who helped the hero defeat the archdemon. That line should be flagged for if she was there or not. As for the death one, well how could anyone kill her? I mean that's just rude.

[Dasha Dreyson]

The Angry One wrote...

Well, Cailan was also cremated.

...

Cailan's reanimated ashes for DA3 companion!

Now we know why they all have to cremated. Otherwise they'd be coming home for dinner!

[just.a.dude]

Pyrate_d wrote...

just.a.dude wrote...

You know, you are right. I can not think of one single movie, book or story where someone has been left for dead. Not one...

What is your logic here? That because many books, movies, and stories are sloppy, DA2 can be sloppy too? Come on.

As for the explanation being forthcoming, I can't wait.

You could read the sentence you left out while quoting my post... it might actually offer insight into my logic.

Leaving someone for dead is a common plot device. Maybe you feel that Bioware made sloppy use of this common story telling tool, but that would remain your opinion. Fact is that applying the "left for dead" explaination to Leliana will suffice to put her in DA2 without retconing or being sloppy. Maybe there is a bigger story, we have yet to hear, behind it. For now it is not a stretch to have her being left for dead.

[Apollo Starflare]

David Gaider wrote...

Pyrate_d wrote...
There is absolutely no REALLY GOOD EXPLANATION that can explain for Leliana and Zevran being alive.

Zevran is not alive if you killed him. His appearance, for some, is a bug that will hopefully be fixed soon. As for Leliana, we have an explanation-- whether or not you think it's a good one will be up to you.

Very interesting, I was content with just ignoring the death animations of Origins and presuming she had fallen in battle the same way any companion (or player character) does in the game. If there is an actual explanation for her appearance (and one that could affect the plot should you have 'killed' her) then I can't wait to find out what it is and have even less of an issue with her turning up.

The funny thing is I'm not the worlds biggest Leliana fan, in fact she is one of my least favourite characters in the franchise (I don't particularly dislike her, just eh) - her turning up just made a great twist for me, and if there is a chance to make her an antagonist in future installments then some of my player characters will relish that.

[Pyrate_d]

just.a.dude wrote...

Leaving someone for dead is a common plot device. Maybe you feel that Bioware made sloppy use of this common story telling tool, but that would remain your opinion. Fact is that applying the "left for dead" explaination to Leliana will suffice to put her in DA2 without retconing or being sloppy. Maybe there is a bigger story, we have yet to hear, behind it. For now it is not a stretch to have her being left for dead.

I'm sure that the BIGGER STORY somehow involves Leliana using the "corrupted" (or not?) ashes to heal herself.

I guess we just disagree! I'm not happy with characters coming back to life unless there was a foundation laid for their return. It takes a talented storyteller to make the audience think that a character is dead and then show them that they were wrong without retconning or cheating. I don't feel that Bioware pulled it off, but I'll have to wait for the explanation to see.

Modifié par Pyrate_d, 03 avril 2011 - 10:59 .

[TheJiveDJ]

I read all of the previous thread's convo between Gaider and that other dude. Seriously BioWare? What's going on? I know all these attacks on your game are probably testing your patience but really? The TC had an insanely legitimate point and all Gaider could say was, "well put up or shut up" and then shut down the topic when he got angry.

....what the **** is going on? I used to have so much faith in your company but that faith is slowly dwindling. I know EA breathing down your necks must be stressful....but ****!! Alright enough venting lol

C'mon fellas, you can do better than this.

Modifié par TheJiveDJ, 03 avril 2011 - 11:07 .

[WhiteKnyght]

David Gaider wrote...

Pyrate_d wrote...
There is absolutely no REALLY GOOD EXPLANATION that can explain for Leliana and Zevran being alive.

Zevran is not alive if you killed him. His appearance, for some, is a bug that will hopefully be fixed soon. As for Leliana, we have an explanation-- whether or not you think it's a good one will be up to you.

My guesses for Leliana.

- If she wasn't recruited she fled Lothering before the darkspawn hit it.

- If she was killed at the Gauntlet she either faked being dead, was resurrected somehow(the ashes, the Guardian Flemeth, who knows), or she's like Jason Vorhees and can come recover from anything.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 04 avril 2011 - 12:03 .

[petipas1414]

Is it so hard to admit you guys messed up? I could watch threat level midnight on the ****ing office and see a situation like this handled better. At least Michael admits he's wrong.

Your words are spreading the internets as well : http://www.escapistm...in-Dragon-Age-2

[Merced652]

I love this series, what will be retconned next? The arishok dying in the duel?

[stobie]

It allows for this line to exist, & that makes it all worthwhile:

"Decapitation was merely a setback."

(I'm fine with her being rezzed off-screen. Carry on.)

[Khaldara]

Ok maybe I'm in the minority here but really people? REALLY?

You guys are complaining about a character that may or may not have died in a fantasy environment where a torn Aorta or being cleaved from nape to chops by a battle axe is entirely fixable in seconds by a magical "poultice".. For the sake of those of you with poor grammar, a poultice is defined as "a soft, moist mass of cloth, bread, meal, herbs, etc., applied hot as a medicament to the body."

Where's the public outcry? Where are the calls for Gaider's blatant disregard for realism?! I'd call for his head on a pike, but the tricky fellow would probably poultice that right up as well! It's not often I feel compelled to advise someone to calm the hell down and channel their free time into something more productive.. but seriously? We're having a discussion about this now?

Remind me who the protagonist of Baldur's Gate 2 was? A bastard half son of a dead god that could magically turn into a demon periodically and portal away to a convenient alternate dimension whenever it took his fancy. Gee wiz, I can see how if you'd played any other Bioware games like that, that so closely adhered to standards of realism and believability at all times it must be hard to carry some minor suspension of disbelief.

I mean did any of you grow up playing video games? Like... at all? Ever? How many times has Mario killed that damn turtle? How many times has Link given Ganon a steel bladed suppository? How many times has Pac-Man eaten those friggin' ghosts?! I get arguing about some aspects of the game, aspects that make sense that actually impact gameplay experience (why the inside of every mine and cave is recycled art from every other cave or mine in the world, did they hire ONE dwarf with a raging obsessive compulsive disorder to dig them? Every left and right turn exactly the same?).. but you're debating lore with the good people who birthed the storyline. Just be happy they didn't pump out another sequel the same way so many other game companies have over the years, just recycling the same boss with slight location variances. It could just as easily have been "Archdemon 2: Electric Boogaloo".

[rak72]

I still say it was Leliana's evil twin.
As for Zevran , 3 words - Knight Industries 2000

[Merced652]

leliana's body was taken over by the spirit of andraste that lingered over her ashes for 1000000000000000 years. Now leliana is an abomination like our bros anders and wynne. Awsumz.

[David Gaider]

petipas1414 wrote...
Is it so hard to admit you guys messed up? I could watch threat level midnight on the ****ing office and see a situation like this handled better. At least Michael admits he's wrong.

Your words are spreading the internets as well : http://www.escapistm...in-Dragon-Age-2

I'm not sure what it is you expect me to say. I'm not about to apologize for our choices, though I certainly recognize that not everyone is happy with them. As for threads elsewhere, if someone wants to go to other places on the internet to complain-- okay? I'm not sure what that proves, other than that some people are really determined to be right.

There is no right or wrong here, however-- there's people who enjoyed the story and there's people who didn't. I hear plenty from both. Feel free to explain why you think so, and I'll listen, but don't expect more than that.

Perhaps it's better if I simply said nothing in response. In fact, it very likely is.

Modifié par David Gaider, 04 avril 2011 - 12:50 .

[Redneck1st]

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

Torax wrote...

Keep in mind that they also have to work out it out between Sony and Microsoft for the respective Consoles. I don't know how much that would play part it in on top of just developing a fix in the first place.

i think they are testing the patches and making sure it doesnt introduce new problems. then they will move on to working it out will microsoft and sony. two weeks i think is under the best conditions. probably more.

Well that there would be understandable in regards to the patches and after all you can't fault them for that there.

[Statulos]

David Gaider wrote...

Pyrate_d wrote...
There is absolutely no REALLY GOOD EXPLANATION that can explain for Leliana and Zevran being alive.

Zevran is not alive if you killed him. His appearance, for some, is a bug that will hopefully be fixed soon. As for Leliana, we have an explanation-- whether or not you think it's a good one will be up to you.

I know you´re not allowed to comment on this, affirm or deny very possibly because of legal stuff but just as a kind request: please, don´t spoil the WTF element of the Sacred Ashes. I loved how ambiguos the whole thing is and putting rationality on it, destroys the mistery and supernatural element. Some stuff shouldn´t be answered and I hope we get a couple more outcomes like the Sacred Ashes.

Modifié par Statulos, 04 avril 2011 - 01:26 .

[mesmerizedish]

David Gaider wrote...

As for Leliana, we have an explanation-- whether or not you think it's a good one will be up to you.

I'll bet it's the same reason that Aveline shows up in DAII even though Leliana clearly said she had her throat slit and died.

[Sammyjb]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

As for Leliana, we have an explanation-- whether or not you think it's a good one will be up to you.

I'll bet it's the same reason that Aveline shows up in DAII even though Leliana clearly said she had her throat slit and died.

I *think* this is sarcasm. But in case I'm wrong (I'll look like an idiot either way), Aveline was named after the chevalier Aveline from long ago.

Now I think you were joking. Dang.

[WhiteKnyght]

David Gaider wrote...

petipas1414 wrote...
Is it so hard to admit you guys messed up? I could watch threat level midnight on the ****ing office and see a situation like this handled better. At least Michael admits he's wrong.

Your words are spreading the internets as well : http://www.escapistm...in-Dragon-Age-2

I'm not sure what it is you expect me to say. I'm not about to apologize for our choices, though I certainly recognize that not everyone is happy with them. As for threads elsewhere, if someone wants to go to other places on the internet to complain-- okay? I'm not sure what that proves, other than that some people are really determined to be right.

There is no right or wrong here, however-- there's people who enjoyed the story and there's people who didn't. I hear plenty from both. Feel free to explain why you think so, and I'll listen, but don't expect more than that.

Perhaps it's better if I simply said nothing in response. In fact, it very likely is.

Don't pay them any mind. It looks like that article was written by a halfwit who cant tell the difference between a random game mechanic and an actual plot flag or consider that Leliana was "killed" in a place that was arguably infused with so magical power/lyrium that who knows what could happen if something was exposed for too long.

There are plenty of reasons to justify a dead character returning. Resurrection, faked death, twin sister, clone, or perhaps she pulled an Albedo and can recover from anything. In a world where magic exists, anything is possible.

Or perhaps "Leliana" never really existed and she is really Flemeth.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 04 avril 2011 - 01:45 .

[mesmerizedish]

Sammyjb wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

As for Leliana, we have an explanation-- whether or not you think it's a good one will be up to you.

I'll bet it's the same reason that Aveline shows up in DAII even though Leliana clearly said she had her throat slit and died.

I *think* this is sarcasm. But in case I'm wrong (I'll look like an idiot either way), Aveline was named after the chevalier Aveline from long ago.

Now I think you were joking. Dang.

I wasn't joking, insofar as I do think it's the same reason. There's a degree of irony, though, certainly, because that reason happens to be "they're not the same person."

Leliana has an evil twin, OMZ!

[Fieryeel]

I dun understand why people don't get this point: There is no death move exception for ingame mechanic purposes, unless it is a scripted cutscene like Loghain's. You decapitating Leliana or Wynne never truly happened in canon. You taking them down IS canon, and they being dead or looking dead is canon too.

So why did Leliana survive?

1) The ashes healed her. It was never confirmed that desecrating the ashes would destroy them, or take away their healing power. It's also a fact that the ashes are a huge mystery, and the limits of their power has not been explored. Oghren too hinted there were more to the ashes than meets the eye.

2) She used Feign Death. Just because you didn't have her learn that skill doesn't mean she lacks it in canon. When I first saw Anders, he used Flame Blast, but he didn't have the skill in his ingame spell book. Why is it so unrealistic for Leliana, an extremely skilled bard who has probably slaughtered dozens to hundreds of foes to be able to trick you?

3) You knocked her out, or you left her for dead, unfortunately though, Leliana was stronger than you thought, and against all odds, survived the mountain and escaped.

I am not defending David Gaider here, but I do not deny that fact I absolutely adore Leliana, however, her survival is not completely impossible.

The fact that characters like Zevran stay dead after I killed him means that much of my choices do matter.

[WhiteKnyght]

Well Flemeth is an open shapeshifter who admits to having more than a single body able to exist at any given moment.

Perhaps Leliana is nothing more than a portion of her set up to be in a position of authority/power/influence.(Being a Seeker is nothing to laugh at, and its possible Leliana could become the next Divine if she plays her cards right.)

[Silveryne]

It's really confusing that in a game where there is an extremely old woman who can shift bodies and turn into a dragon, we have to fight about whether or not a character can survive something or be brought back from the dead.

I sincerely doubt that Leliana's survival will have no comment further down the line. I can't imagine that the designers would simply have Leliana say: "I...survived," instead of having some exposition on it that changes depending on if you picked her up from Lothering, if she died in the Urn of Sacred Ashes arc, or if she stayed with you until the bitter and bloody end. Or if she stabbed herself after composing a sweet ballad. Gosh, that ending was sad.

Reading comprehension is a cool talent. I'm glad I picked it up on my last level up.

[thebatmanreborn]

I don't think many of you realize how difficult it is to write an interactive story. It was a pain for me to write short films. Why? After I write the film I then have to pass it on to the director. I have yet to meet a director who does not believe himself to be an excellent writer. They are usually wrong, but I regress. The script is passed on to the director who butchers it. After filming is done, it is passed along to the film editor who tries to fix up the butchering the director did. I know...because I have done film editing. In any event, the script never comes out like the screenwriter imagined it. The story is completely jacked up. And that's why a lot of movies in Hollywood today have people scratching their collective heads wondering, "What happened to all the good storytellers? That movie was garbage!"

Writing a novel allows me to make the story as I envisioned it. And it allows you to get lost in a world I created. The same can be said of poetry, short stories, and even music.

Games are similar in some respects to television writing. I got to work on a television set once. Fun stuff. You work in a group of about 5-6 writers. Good times. Everything is perfectly scripted. I mean, the director in this case does not have the creative control a film director does. I have not had the chance to work on plays yet, but I would imagine in many ways they are similar.

The point is, the less the story is affected by the storyteller, the more it loses its flavor. The more hands it passes through, the harder it is to keep the vision alive. So now you have a video game. It was designed by a group of writers and game programmers. Lots of opinions, ideas, etc. The thing is, unlike a movie, novel, or play, the story can be altered by you, the gamer. That's a difficult freedom to account for.

You want the story to resonant with people. Story is broken down into plot, pacing, characters, subplots, themes, etc. You want to write the best story you can so people can not only lose themselves in the world you have created, but also come away from it touched in some way. This has been the mark of writers throughout the centuries. Really, the mark of storytellers before writing even existed.

Bioware is awesome at making interactive novels. Is it perfect? No. But I love how these guys are working on making it better. And there are times, and this Leliana thing looks like it is one of them, when the creators of the story need to be given freedom too. Just like you the gamer have freedom, they the storytellers need the freedom too. Why? Because story trumps everything. If Leliana being alive is crucial to the framework of the story, then so be it.